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[April] Removal of Garage Door Cynos

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ShadowandLight
Trigger Happy Capsuleers
#21 - 2015-04-02 00:30:10 UTC
Fozzie

I recognize that this was an unintended mechanic and perhaps broken, allowing complete safety for people moving supers.

However, keeping in mind the "small guy" (players who arent in big blocs trying to move or acquire a super or a titan) this really, really hurts them.

I understand the reason to remove it

But it would be remiss of CCP to not add some other mechanic to allow supers or titans get safe when traveling that isnt as powerful as flipping a tower online, but gives them another option.

I dont have the "answer" but spit balling, allowing only webs to interact with the super / titan.

Currently only the larger groups will be safe moving supers, further cementing their abilities and preventing smaller groups from being able to build up forces.

Its already horrible tipped to the larger groups advantage. These larger groups have the sov, the isk making potential, high end moons, capability to produce supers and probably never need to buy them in low sec (which this targets most movement in).

Before culling this mechanic, at least come up with another mechanic for players that meets the situation half way.

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Suitonia
Order of the Red Kestrel
#22 - 2015-04-02 00:31:58 UTC
ShadowandLight wrote:
Fozzie

I recognize that this was an unintended mechanic and perhaps broken, allowing complete safety for people moving supers.

However, keeping in mind the "small guy" (players who arent in big blocs trying to move or acquire a super or a titan) this really, really hurts them.

I understand the reason to remove it

But it would be remiss of CCP to not add some other mechanic to allow supers or titans get safe when traveling that isnt as powerful as flipping a tower online, but gives them another option.

I dont have the "answer" but spit balling, allowing only webs to interact with the super / titan.

Currently only the larger groups will be safe moving supers, further cementing their abilities and preventing smaller groups from being able to build up forces.

Its already horrible tipped to the larger groups advantage. These larger groups have the sov, the isk making potential, high end moons, capability to produce supers and probably never need to buy them in low sec (which this targets most movement in).

Before culling this mechanic, at least come up with another mechanic for players that meets the situation half way.



10 Seconds Vulnerability is more than fine.

Contributer to Eve is Easy:  https://www.youtube.com/user/eveiseasy/videos

Solo PvP is possible with a 20 day old character! :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvOB4KXYk-o
Cade Windstalker
#23 - 2015-04-02 00:49:44 UTC
Rowells wrote:
They are going to hold off in making any decisions until the new structures have actual info. So, dont expect anything solid until the second or third iteration on the new structures. Too little is known about what they will be to make any decisions.


That CCP wants to remove POS Forcefields is stated in the start of the Mooring thread and previously third bullet point down in this post by Ytterbium. While you're correct that nothing is absolutely set in stone right now I would say that at this point the default is "POS Shields are going away" and someone needs to present a very compelling case for them to stick around.
Elenahina
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2015-04-02 01:16:54 UTC
Catherine Laartii wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey everyone. One more announcement to make today for our end of April release.

"Garage door cynos" are a tactic that uses starbase forcefields to enable extremely safe movement of capital ships. This is an unintended and unhealthy use of game mechanics that we will be removing this month.

In our April release, cynos will no longer be able to be lit within the potential forcefield area of an Anchored, Online or Reinforced starbase. This means that essentially, cynos will have the same behavior near a starbase whether the forcefield is active or not.

Let us know what you think!

How will this affect new structure mechanics? I'm assuming a lot of these won't have a starbase -type forcefield.


Fozzie answered that a couple posts up. It won't.

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Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
Tactical-Retreat
#25 - 2015-04-02 05:16:09 UTC
Why not Big smile

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Tarsas Phage
Sniggerdly
#26 - 2015-04-02 05:34:53 UTC
ShadowandLight wrote:
Fozzie

I recognize that this was an unintended mechanic and perhaps broken, allowing complete safety for people moving supers.

However, keeping in mind the "small guy" (players who arent in big blocs trying to move or acquire a super or a titan) this really, really hurts them.

I understand the reason to remove it

But it would be remiss of CCP to not add some other mechanic to allow supers or titans get safe when traveling that isnt as powerful as flipping a tower online, but gives them another option.

I dont have the "answer" but spit balling, allowing only webs to interact with the super / titan.

Currently only the larger groups will be safe moving supers, further cementing their abilities and preventing smaller groups from being able to build up forces.

Its already horrible tipped to the larger groups advantage. These larger groups have the sov, the isk making potential, high end moons, capability to produce supers and probably never need to buy them in low sec (which this targets most movement in).

Before culling this mechanic, at least come up with another mechanic for players that meets the situation half way.



This is so full of misconceptions.

Moving a super requires the same things whether you're in a small corp, solo, or in PL, NCdot or BL:


  • careful route planning
  • situational awareness
  • common sense
  • confidence in yourself, born from practice


So, this isn't a "Big guy vs. Small guy" thing at all.
Bobmon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#27 - 2015-04-02 08:18:37 UTC
Fozzie, the Man, The Myth, The legend! Thanks

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Dora Adant
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2015-04-02 09:50:02 UTC
so how are we as small entities supposed to move their supers now?

the warp speed changes really really ****** warping them to safe spots, phoebe made moving them anywhere at all already a massive pain in the gonads

so now we have to set up two POS for every jump? one to light the cyno on (with guns/jams) and one to huddle in waiting for the timer to expire?
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#29 - 2015-04-02 10:03:07 UTC
Dora Adant wrote:
so how are we as small entities supposed to move their supers now?

the warp speed changes really really ****** warping them to safe spots, phoebe made moving them anywhere at all already a massive pain in the gonads

so now we have to set up two POS for every jump? one to light the cyno on (with guns/jams) and one to huddle in waiting for the timer to expire?

with caution. Just like everyone else. You don't need absolute safety to move a super. That would be a self-imposed requirement.
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#30 - 2015-04-02 10:28:16 UTC
ShadowandLight wrote:
Fozzie

I recognize that this was an unintended mechanic and perhaps broken, allowing complete safety for people moving supers.

However, keeping in mind the "small guy" (players who arent in big blocs trying to move or acquire a super or a titan) this really, really hurts them.

I understand the reason to remove it

But it would be remiss of CCP to not add some other mechanic to allow supers or titans get safe when traveling that isnt as powerful as flipping a tower online, but gives them another option.

I dont have the "answer" but spit balling, allowing only webs to interact with the super / titan.

Currently only the larger groups will be safe moving supers, further cementing their abilities and preventing smaller groups from being able to build up forces.

Its already horrible tipped to the larger groups advantage. These larger groups have the sov, the isk making potential, high end moons, capability to produce supers and probably never need to buy them in low sec (which this targets most movement in).

Before culling this mechanic, at least come up with another mechanic for players that meets the situation half way.



Suicide cyno. Learn how to use it.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Numidio Chthonus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#31 - 2015-04-02 10:56:13 UTC
FT Diomedes wrote:
Suicide cyno. Learn how to use it.


For those that do not understand what a suicide cyno is or its benefit, a quick explanation.

Have your cyno pilot in a cheap rookie frigate or t1 frigate.
Warp to the safe spot where you plan to light the cyno.
Initiate self destruct, and wait until the time is almost up.
with a few seconds left, light the cyno and have the super jump.
Because the cyno dies with your ship, it will only be visible for a relatively short time on the overview, so you are more likely to safely move your ship.
Warp the pod away and cloak the super/carrier/rorqual.
viola.
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#32 - 2015-04-02 11:20:52 UTC
Numidio Chthonus wrote:
FT Diomedes wrote:
Suicide cyno. Learn how to use it.


For those that do not understand what a suicide cyno is or its benefit, a quick explanation.

Have your cyno pilot in a cheap rookie frigate or t1 frigate.
Warp to the safe spot where you plan to light the cyno.
Initiate self destruct, and wait until the time is almost up.
with a few seconds left, light the cyno and have the super jump.
Because the cyno dies with your ship, it will only be visible for a relatively short time on the overview, so you are more likely to safely move your ship.
Warp the pod away and cloak the super/carrier/rorqual.
viola.


For +1 paranoia, use decoy cynos both in the area and in the system.
chelly Dian
Iron Whales
Goonswarm Federation
#33 - 2015-04-02 11:24:18 UTC
Good change - very happy about it
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#34 - 2015-04-02 12:05:55 UTC
did you guys fix sun-bounce cynos yet?
EvilweaselSA
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#35 - 2015-04-02 12:51:52 UTC
ShadowandLight wrote:
Fozzie

I recognize that this was an unintended mechanic and perhaps broken, allowing complete safety for people moving supers.

However, keeping in mind the "small guy" (players who arent in big blocs trying to move or acquire a super or a titan) this really, really hurts them.

I understand the reason to remove it

But it would be remiss of CCP to not add some other mechanic to allow supers or titans get safe when traveling that isnt as powerful as flipping a tower online, but gives them another option.

I dont have the "answer" but spit balling, allowing only webs to interact with the super / titan.

Currently only the larger groups will be safe moving supers, further cementing their abilities and preventing smaller groups from being able to build up forces.

Its already horrible tipped to the larger groups advantage. These larger groups have the sov, the isk making potential, high end moons, capability to produce supers and probably never need to buy them in low sec (which this targets most movement in).

Before culling this mechanic, at least come up with another mechanic for players that meets the situation half way.



"only cyno when local is clear" boom i did it for you
Tyr Dolorem
State War Academy
Caldari State
#36 - 2015-04-02 12:53:01 UTC
I wanna have your children Fozzie.
EvilweaselSA
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#37 - 2015-04-02 12:53:32 UTC
wait i need to start posting on my non-goonswarm alts about how i need mechanics so i can move MY TITAN in perfect safety because i'm a little guy and hope you don't realize that of course i would use it on my goonswarm guy
Arronicus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#38 - 2015-04-02 13:21:04 UTC
EvilweaselSA wrote:
ShadowandLight wrote:
Fozzie

I recognize that this was an unintended mechanic and perhaps broken, allowing complete safety for people moving supers.

However, keeping in mind the "small guy" (players who arent in big blocs trying to move or acquire a super or a titan) this really, really hurts them.

I understand the reason to remove it

But it would be remiss of CCP to not add some other mechanic to allow supers or titans get safe when traveling that isnt as powerful as flipping a tower online, but gives them another option.

I dont have the "answer" but spit balling, allowing only webs to interact with the super / titan.

Currently only the larger groups will be safe moving supers, further cementing their abilities and preventing smaller groups from being able to build up forces.

Its already horrible tipped to the larger groups advantage. These larger groups have the sov, the isk making potential, high end moons, capability to produce supers and probably never need to buy them in low sec (which this targets most movement in).

Before culling this mechanic, at least come up with another mechanic for players that meets the situation half way.



"only cyno when local is clear" boom i did it for you


Right, because there aren't a variety of lowsec cyno chokepoints that ALWAYS have neutrals in them, right? Oh wait, there are. That's why you suicide cyno.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#39 - 2015-04-02 13:28:30 UTC
Arronicus wrote:
EvilweaselSA wrote:
ShadowandLight wrote:
Fozzie

I recognize that this was an unintended mechanic and perhaps broken, allowing complete safety for people moving supers.

However, keeping in mind the "small guy" (players who arent in big blocs trying to move or acquire a super or a titan) this really, really hurts them.

I understand the reason to remove it

But it would be remiss of CCP to not add some other mechanic to allow supers or titans get safe when traveling that isnt as powerful as flipping a tower online, but gives them another option.

I dont have the "answer" but spit balling, allowing only webs to interact with the super / titan.

Currently only the larger groups will be safe moving supers, further cementing their abilities and preventing smaller groups from being able to build up forces.

Its already horrible tipped to the larger groups advantage. These larger groups have the sov, the isk making potential, high end moons, capability to produce supers and probably never need to buy them in low sec (which this targets most movement in).

Before culling this mechanic, at least come up with another mechanic for players that meets the situation half way.



"only cyno when local is clear" boom i did it for you


Right, because there aren't a variety of lowsec cyno chokepoints that ALWAYS have neutrals in them, right? Oh wait, there are. That's why you suicide cyno.


I'm no expert but can't you light a shitload of cynos with your friends so the enemy can't check all of them?
Elenahina
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#40 - 2015-04-02 13:58:26 UTC
afkalt wrote:
Numidio Chthonus wrote:
FT Diomedes wrote:
Suicide cyno. Learn how to use it.


For those that do not understand what a suicide cyno is or its benefit, a quick explanation.

Have your cyno pilot in a cheap rookie frigate or t1 frigate.
Warp to the safe spot where you plan to light the cyno.
Initiate self destruct, and wait until the time is almost up.
with a few seconds left, light the cyno and have the super jump.
Because the cyno dies with your ship, it will only be visible for a relatively short time on the overview, so you are more likely to safely move your ship.
Warp the pod away and cloak the super/carrier/rorqual.
viola.


For +1 paranoia, use decoy cynos both in the area and in the system.


Train people not to warp to your cynos by lighting them at random on death stars and then hotdropping them with subcaps.

Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you. Also, iderno