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[April] [Updated] Confessor and Svipul Balance Tweaks

First post First post
Author
Iroquoiss Pliskin
9B30FF Labs
#281 - 2015-04-13 23:15:53 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
Prometheus Exenthal wrote:
Iroquoiss Pliskin wrote:
Prometheus Exenthal wrote:
muuuuch better changes


Just you wait.

Must first fit 10MN... then calculate new thrust with this mass.

Curious, Curious. What?

Lol



T2 10mn AB w/ nanofibre on Svipul in speed mode:
2567 (3588) without implants or bonuses.


Nope. Big smile

Quote:
[Svipul, New Setup 1 copy 1]
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II

Federation Navy 10MN Afterburner
Medium Ancillary Shield Booster, Navy Cap Booster 50
Medium Ancillary Shield Booster, Navy Cap Booster 50
Warp Scrambler II

125mm Gatling AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
125mm Gatling AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
125mm Gatling AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
125mm Gatling AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]

Small Ancillary Current Router II
Small Auxiliary Thrusters II
Small Polycarbon Engine Housing I



3039 / 4558 m/s OH m/s.

Xaxaxa.

No Links.

Xaxaxa.

No Quafe.

Xaxaxaxa.

10MN AB, 372 DPS with dual MASB.


Proof: 360 m/s * (1 + (1.7225 AB bonus * (15,000,000 AB Thrust / (1,500,000 shipmass + 5,000,000 AB mass))) = 1824 / 2736 OH m/s, and 3039 / 4558 m/s OH m/s. in Propulsion mode.

Xaxaxa Big smile
Prometheus Exenthal
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#282 - 2015-04-13 23:18:39 UTC
Obviously you can make it faster, I was just giving vanilla numbers from the most common setups.

https://www.youtube.com/user/promsrage

DO YOUR JOBS, CCP DEVS. FIX THE GAME INSTEAD OF FKING IT

Iroquoiss Pliskin
9B30FF Labs
#283 - 2015-04-13 23:24:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Iroquoiss Pliskin
6 km/s AC 10MN Sviipuls are a go. Big smile The above setup fits with 5 PG to spare.

I'll throw in 2x Small Neuts with a little modification in a second. Twisted

Quote:
[Svipul, Cancer 2.0]
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II

Federation Navy 10MN Afterburner
Medium Ancillary Shield Booster, Navy Cap Booster 50
Medium Ancillary Shield Booster, Navy Cap Booster 50
Warp Scrambler II

125mm Gatling AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
125mm Gatling AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
125mm Gatling AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
125mm Gatling AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
Small Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Small Unstable Power Fluctuator I
[empty high slot]

Small Ancillary Current Router II
Small Auxiliary Thrusters II
Small Ancillary Current Router I


Hafta figure out which mods to swap out for faction due to being 18 CPU short. Blink

A little slower: 2852 / 4278 OH m/s. ( ͡~ ͜ʖ ͡°) ( ͡~ ͜ʖ ͡°) ( ͡~ ͜ʖ ͡°)

Prometheus Exenthal wrote:

The most important thing to take away from this is that a tracking bonused Cruiser can now HIT these things more reliably when scram/webbed.


They can? ( ͡~ ͜ʖ ͡°)

Xaxaxa, thank you CCP Fozzie & Team!

Minmatar Tactical Destroyer V in progress
Ned Thomas
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#284 - 2015-04-13 23:33:14 UTC
Phoenix Jones wrote:
Two utility highs... Let's all say it together..

Assault frigates... Rest in pieces.Shocked


Yeah, I can't quite think of a way to make AF's desirable in the face of D3's.

.......f**k it, give 'em d-scan immunity.
Prometheus Exenthal
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#285 - 2015-04-13 23:52:28 UTC
Iroquoiss Pliskin, you make it sound like you had no idea how fast the ships were before.
But enjoy your poor-tank, no-range, moderate speed Svipul.

https://www.youtube.com/user/promsrage

DO YOUR JOBS, CCP DEVS. FIX THE GAME INSTEAD OF FKING IT

Iroquoiss Pliskin
9B30FF Labs
#286 - 2015-04-13 23:55:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Iroquoiss Pliskin
Oh, I will.

I've strange tastes. Twisted

I'm hysterical that It's only 300 m/s slower than before for such a huge cut in base speed. Hafta do a test with hardcore ODs and see what topspeed this seksi low mass, supa thrust is going to give.

Lean, low-fat, mean nanuggafing fighting machine. ᕦ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)ᕤ

Might as well see what's up with the Confessor. The 1MWD speeds seemed "decent", butt first - 10MN with Gatlings.

Quote:
[Confessor, Nyaah]
Small Ancillary Armor Repairer, Nanite Repair Paste
Micro Auxiliary Power Core II
Heat Sink II
Centii A-Type Small Armor Repairer
Centii A-Type Adaptive Nano Plating

Experimental 10MN Afterburner I
Small Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 400
Warp Scrambler II

Gatling Pulse Laser II, Conflagration S
Gatling Pulse Laser II, Conflagration S
Gatling Pulse Laser II, Conflagration S
Gatling Pulse Laser II, Conflagration S
Small Unstable Power Fluctuator I
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]

Small Auxiliary Nano Pump II
Small Nanobot Accelerator II
Small Ancillary Current Router I


1308 / 1962

2179 / 3279 m/s

Sssslower than in Pass One.

Guess I'll have to re-learn MWD-fu. Sad At least I'll be flying with top tier weps fitted for a change. Smile

Overall, is gud. Great succes. Cool

Still don't like the fact that 125mm ACs take 0.00000000000000000000001 PG to fit. What?
Liam Inkuras
Wildcard.
Boundary Experts
#287 - 2015-04-14 00:22:12 UTC
Heat for days

I wear my goggles at night.

Any spelling/grammatical errors come complimentary with my typing on a phone

ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#288 - 2015-04-14 00:22:40 UTC
Removed an off topic post.

ISD Dorrim Barstorlode

Senior Lead

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department

The Connoisseur
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#289 - 2015-04-14 00:23:25 UTC
Wouldn't change give the Svipul a little over 19% increased performance in heating its guns in a ship with an already flat 25% reduction in heat damage?
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#290 - 2015-04-14 00:35:52 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
which is how we directly impact the power of oversized prop modules


ok but how about you just get rid of them entirely instead, they've always been full cancer
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#291 - 2015-04-14 00:38:10 UTC
TrouserDeagle wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
which is how we directly impact the power of oversized prop modules


ok but how about you just get rid of them entirely instead, they've always been full cancer

They're not bad if the trade off is appropriately large.
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#292 - 2015-04-14 00:53:44 UTC
TrouserDeagle wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
which is how we directly impact the power of oversized prop modules


ok but how about you just get rid of them entirely instead, they've always been full cancer


Saying it over and over again doesn't make it true. There's plenty of room for the fitting of oversized prop mods to be an interesting and balanced fitting choice, as long as the benefits and drawbacks are in their proper place.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie

Iroquoiss Pliskin
9B30FF Labs
#293 - 2015-04-14 00:59:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Iroquoiss Pliskin
CCP Fozzie - the man. Smile

I am kinda glad that fitting 10MNs by default is no longer required.

I feel free.

FREE!

Cade Windstalker wrote:
I wouldn't be surprised to see these ships show up even more in Exploration.


Used to run everything upto 5/10s in a DLB Confessor awhile back while in LS. P
Soul-on-Ice
Mayhem and Ruin
M A R A K U G A
#294 - 2015-04-14 01:44:06 UTC
Hows about a skill reimbursement? Seeings as minmatar tactical destroyer is completely worthless now?

The tears think the ship is OP:

Option 1 - Counter it.

Option 2 - Fly one yourself.

Option 3 - QQ to CCP about your feelings.
God's Apples
Wildcard.
Boundary Experts
#295 - 2015-04-14 01:58:24 UTC
Soul-on-Ice wrote:
Hows about a skill reimbursement? Seeings as minmatar tactical destroyer is completely worthless now?

The tears think the ship is OP:

Option 1 - Counter it.

Option 2 - Fly one yourself.

Option 3 - QQ to CCP about your feelings.


Because it's extremely fun gameplay when you have to either fly a svipul or a svipul counter. It's almost like there are 200 other ship hulls that don't exist...

"Hydra Reloaded are just jealous / butthurt on me / us because we can get tons of PVP action in empire while they aren't good enough to get that." - NightmareX

Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#296 - 2015-04-14 02:25:55 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
TrouserDeagle wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
which is how we directly impact the power of oversized prop modules


ok but how about you just get rid of them entirely instead, they've always been full cancer


Saying it over and over again doesn't make it true. There's plenty of room for the fitting of oversized prop mods to be an interesting and balanced fitting choice, as long as the benefits and drawbacks are in their proper place.


thats one view point i suppose, many others are on the side of removal of the easily exploitable,
so the question is with these changes do you really think using oversized props have strong enough trade offs?

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using

Milam Dobbins
Comms Black
Pandemic Horde
#297 - 2015-04-14 03:11:02 UTC
Hey Fozzie! Thanks for the great work on balance. Everything's been amazing the last few years, though I was getting worried with the T3 release since you guys had previously said T3's would be on the power levels of navy faction but versatility would push it up in worth...and instead it was above current T2 levels and the versatility just made it more powerful on top of it - though you didn't have a real comparison on dessie navy/T2 levels and you wanted people to be excited about T3 dessies, so super understandable. and the versatility just made it more powerful on top of it. Anywho, both the initial nerf and this reaction to the feedback is amazing!

That being said, I would like to sound a concern on the speed. It's been kind of disheartening that with real game builds the ammar dictor actually typically ends up with higher possible speeds than the sabre. This is due to the plentiful low slots the ammarian ship has. The difference isn't as big between the two T3's, but I did want to bring that up since nano/overdrive fit shield amarr T3's(yeah, they're around even without the defense boost, since sniper mode is actually good on the confessor :P) will be faster than shield svipuls without sacrificing dps mods or DCU.

Anywho, I'm not sure how much minnie ships being fast has been factored in to more recent balance decisions, but it is kind of crucial if range flexibility is supposed to be a strength of projectiles - flexibility of range doesn't matter if the other guy gets to dictate range.

In real game terms it largely doesn't matter since both ships break the DPS and usefulness level that stuff like that is gravy. Svipul is great right now because it doesn't use cap, as well as tank flexibility. That might change a bunch when the other two T3's are released but it seems good right now.(Caldari also doesn't use cap, Gall will probably be around as flexible tank wise, right?)

Anywho, keep up the great work!
Xavier Azabu
Half Empty
xqtywiznalamywmodxfhhopawzpqyjdwrpeptuaenabjawdzku
#298 - 2015-04-14 03:32:27 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
TrouserDeagle wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
which is how we directly impact the power of oversized prop modules


ok but how about you just get rid of them entirely instead, they've always been full cancer


Saying it over and over again doesn't make it true. There's plenty of room for the fitting of oversized prop mods to be an interesting and balanced fitting choice, as long as the benefits and drawbacks are in their proper place.


Agreed. Basically Dual Lights or 250s if you're running 10mn ab would be preferred respectively for Confessor and Svipul. Thanks for the thoughtful changes.

I have a vain suggestion to make but, can you please graphically update the Svipul and Confessor now that they are losing their turret slots? It's a minor detail but... it always looks better when the turret hardpoints on the ship model match the actual slots in the game. Cheers.
Quietsky
Kiwis In Space
Dock Workers
#299 - 2015-04-14 04:30:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Quietsky
As an avid FW bro, I would like to see tact destroyers removed from available ships to take into small plexs. My logic follows as such, if Loki's and Tengu's (both medium sized t3 ships) can't get into mediums, why should tech 3 destroyers be allowed in smalls?




Edit: I don't mind the power of the ships as much as I do their ability to engage much weaker ships in small FW plexs.
Cade Windstalker
#300 - 2015-04-14 04:35:14 UTC
Quietsky wrote:
As an avid FW bro, I would like to see tact destroyers removed from available ships to take into small plexs. My logic follows as such, if Loki's and Tengu's (both medium sized t3 ships) can't get into mediums, why should tech 3 destroyers be allowed in smalls?

Edit: I don't mind the power of the ships as much as I do their ability to engage much weaker ships in small FW plexs.


I believe the eventual goal is for various T2 Frigates and Destroyers to be competitive with these ships, but somewhat less versatile due to the T3's mode switching.

If this isn't the case then I absolutely agree they should not be allowed into the FW complexes.