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[Discussion] Entosis Link Tactics and Ship Balance Part 2

First post First post First post
Author
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#221 - 2015-04-06 15:11:01 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Nolak Ataru wrote:
Took another system last night with domis, harpies, celestis, and dread fleets. Other side was a no-show Post-Entosis sov will be nothing but Ishtars and Domis and Huginns and Lokis. Drop drones + assist, turn on entosis, go play DOTA2. I don't understand why CCP can't see this.



because they can read their own proposal. For god sake. at least TRY. The defending side can ALWAYSD escalate back and they can cancel thwe take over with their OWN entosis link, than you need to defeat the defending fleet, and things jsut faslty escalate the same way as now.

The main difference is that this will only happens when people LIVE in a system. If the system is abandoned, there will be no escalation.


well no escalation for the initial reinforce... but there will be for the actual capture event.

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.

Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#222 - 2015-04-06 15:49:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Soldarius
Any reason we can't have different size Entosis Links as well as T2 versions of each? Give T2 better fitting and such. We could also have the T1 consume more fuel.

edit: But there would need to be a reason to field the larger links. MEh. Not sounding terribly good. Maybe just ignore this idea. Just go with different sizes. No T2 links.

http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY

rsantos
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#223 - 2015-04-06 16:27:50 UTC  |  Edited by: rsantos
Nolak Ataru wrote:
Took another system last night with domis, harpies, celestis, and dread fleets. Other side was a no-show Post-Entosis sov will be nothing but Ishtars and Domis and Huginns and Lokis. Drop drones + assist, turn on entosis, go play DOTA2. I don't understand why CCP can't see this.


No... post-entosis sov you will still be chasing frigates reinforcing random systems for 4 hours. we will do our best to make sure you not "allowed" to play DOTA2! :P
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#224 - 2015-04-06 17:50:55 UTC
rsantos wrote:
Nolak Ataru wrote:
Took another system last night with domis, harpies, celestis, and dread fleets. Other side was a no-show Post-Entosis sov will be nothing but Ishtars and Domis and Huginns and Lokis. Drop drones + assist, turn on entosis, go play DOTA2. I don't understand why CCP can't see this.


No... post-entosis sov you will still be chasing frigates reinforcing random systems for 4 hours. we will do our best to make sure you not "allowed" to play DOTA2! :P



the best will be after june a group like brave can go in and literally reinforce every cfc system from ihub to outpost... then it will be interesting if mittens forces the meatshields.... i mean equal members of the cfc like fcon to save goon space...

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.

Jenshae Chiroptera
#225 - 2015-04-06 19:16:54 UTC
Soldarius wrote:
Any reason we can't have different size Entosis Links as well ...? ...
Thanks for the laugh. I just imagined Harry Potter asking in the wand shop about different wands, one with unicorn tail another with pixie hair.... Lol

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#226 - 2015-04-06 19:23:23 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
rsantos wrote:
Nolak Ataru wrote:
Took another system last night with domis, harpies, celestis, and dread fleets. Other side was a no-show Post-Entosis sov will be nothing but Ishtars and Domis and Huginns and Lokis. Drop drones + assist, turn on entosis, go play DOTA2. I don't understand why CCP can't see this.


No... post-entosis sov you will still be chasing frigates reinforcing random systems for 4 hours. we will do our best to make sure you not "allowed" to play DOTA2! :P



the best will be after june a group like brave can go in and literally reinforce every cfc system from ihub to outpost... then it will be interesting if mittens forces the meatshields.... i mean equal members of the cfc like fcon to save goon space...

That depends on whether or not we'll be babysitting the renters in branch.
GeeShizzle MacCloud
#227 - 2015-04-06 20:21:08 UTC  |  Edited by: GeeShizzle MacCloud
Fozzie / Foxfour... could it be possible to get some degree of CREST endpoint to how often each character is using this module?

Much like there's new CREST endpoints detailing how much hp you've rep'd as a logi etc... itd be nice from a org point of view to be able to ascertain and reward those members doing gods work wielding the Entosis Link for both disruption and interruption.

(having a timestamp and location would be absolutely amazing!)

not sure if approaching it from a character standpoint or a structure log would be best, potentially structure with regards to timestamp and location.
Iroquoiss Pliskin
9B30FF Labs
#228 - 2015-04-06 20:31:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Iroquoiss Pliskin
Rowells wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
rsantos wrote:
Nolak Ataru wrote:
Took another system last night with domis, harpies, celestis, and dread fleets. Other side was a no-show Post-Entosis sov will be nothing but Ishtars and Domis and Huginns and Lokis. Drop drones + assist, turn on entosis, go play DOTA2. I don't understand why CCP can't see this.


No... post-entosis sov you will still be chasing frigates reinforcing random systems for 4 hours. we will do our best to make sure you not "allowed" to play DOTA2! :P



the best will be after june a group like brave can go in and literally reinforce every cfc system from ihub to outpost... then it will be interesting if mittens forces the meatshields.... i mean equal members of the cfc like fcon to save goon space...

That depends on whether or not we'll be babysitting the renters in branch.


From my experience in BoB-tymes, it would be best to either leave them as buffer to hold out on their own as long as possible, giving you time for w/e. Smile

Or to revoke all access to stations overnight, seize and extort assets. Smile The number that defects to the enemy is negligible.

Going to be a fun-fun Summer. Pirate
Nolak Ataru
Worm Holers Anonymous
Hole Control
#229 - 2015-04-06 22:28:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Nolak Ataru
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Nolak Ataru wrote:
Took another system last night with domis, harpies, celestis, and dread fleets. Other side was a no-show Post-Entosis sov will be nothing but Ishtars and Domis and Huginns and Lokis. Drop drones + assist, turn on entosis, go play DOTA2. I don't understand why CCP can't see this.


because they can read their own proposal. For god sake. at least TRY. The defending side can ALWAYS escalate back and they can cancel the take over with their OWN entosis link, than you need to defeat the defending fleet, and things jsut faslty escalate the same way as now.
The main difference is that this will only happens when people LIVE in a system. If the system is abandoned, there will be no escalation.


Again, drop drones and assist. Let the Pantheon Archons put 1 rep each on their designated Loki, and then everyone but the Loki can go play [insert game here] until a hostile cyno goes up or something big warps on grid. If a cyno goes up, unless it's a brick-tanked 1m EHP Proteus, it's going to die fairly quickly depending on the number of Archons / Chimeras on grid. If something warps in, even without TIDI there will be plenty of time for the Loki pilot to tell people to tab back to EVE and get ready to deal with whatever just came in.

e: And Brave can do whatever they want but I don't think they're going to commit titans and supers against a defending Pantheon fleet.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#230 - 2015-04-06 22:42:41 UTC
I dont get it... e link makes rr not work... so whats this panteon loki thing?

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.

GeeShizzle MacCloud
#231 - 2015-04-06 23:45:33 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
I dont get it... e link makes rr not work... so whats this panteon loki thing?


for control of the grid.
Gyges Skyeye
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#232 - 2015-04-06 23:47:04 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:

  • The first cycle of the module is always a "warmup cycle" and has no impact. If you lose lock or the module is disabled for any reason, you'll need to go through that warmup cycle again before you can continue exerting any influence over the structure


  • From a user interface standpoint, can we get some clarity added to the game client on this. Modules all have a green cycle timer for ON, and a red cycle timer for OFF/SHUTTING DOWN. Something like a yellow or orange cycle timer for WARMING UP would probably suffice. It would let us more accurately know what the status of our personal entosis link is.

    Thanks
    MeBiatch
    GRR GOONS
    #233 - 2015-04-06 23:57:49 UTC
    GeeShizzle MacCloud wrote:
    MeBiatch wrote:
    I dont get it... e link makes rr not work... so whats this panteon loki thing?


    for control of the grid.


    What i would do to counter this design wise... make rr stack and based on sig radius. Make sentry drones 50mb and make it so carries can't use sub capital drones. I would then add fittings for fighters and make tech two fighters.

    There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

    Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.

    Rowells
    Blackwater USA Inc.
    Pandemic Horde
    #234 - 2015-04-07 00:06:43 UTC
    Gyges Skyeye wrote:
    CCP Fozzie wrote:

  • The first cycle of the module is always a "warmup cycle" and has no impact. If you lose lock or the module is disabled for any reason, you'll need to go through that warmup cycle again before you can continue exerting any influence over the structure


  • From a user interface standpoint, can we get some clarity added to the game client on this. Modules all have a green cycle timer for ON, and a red cycle timer for OFF/SHUTTING DOWN. Something like a yellow or orange cycle timer for WARMING UP would probably suffice. It would let us more accurately know what the status of our personal entosis link is.

    Thanks

    the timer on the structure should be the one to have the count down.
    Cade Windstalker
    #235 - 2015-04-07 00:33:43 UTC
    Nolak Ataru wrote:
    Kagura Nikon wrote:
    Nolak Ataru wrote:
    Took another system last night with domis, harpies, celestis, and dread fleets. Other side was a no-show Post-Entosis sov will be nothing but Ishtars and Domis and Huginns and Lokis. Drop drones + assist, turn on entosis, go play DOTA2. I don't understand why CCP can't see this.


    because they can read their own proposal. For god sake. at least TRY. The defending side can ALWAYS escalate back and they can cancel the take over with their OWN entosis link, than you need to defeat the defending fleet, and things jsut faslty escalate the same way as now.
    The main difference is that this will only happens when people LIVE in a system. If the system is abandoned, there will be no escalation.


    Again, drop drones and assist. Let the Pantheon Archons put 1 rep each on their designated Loki, and then everyone but the Loki can go play [insert game here] until a hostile cyno goes up or something big warps on grid. If a cyno goes up, unless it's a brick-tanked 1m EHP Proteus, it's going to die fairly quickly depending on the number of Archons / Chimeras on grid. If something warps in, even without TIDI there will be plenty of time for the Loki pilot to tell people to tab back to EVE and get ready to deal with whatever just came in.

    e: And Brave can do whatever they want but I don't think they're going to commit titans and supers against a defending Pantheon fleet.


    This doesn't seem to be any sort of problem directly with the new Sov mechanics, and therefore not exactly relevant to this thread.

    Besides, if you bring an all drone comp and go AFK I'll warp in a couple of bomber wings and laugh my arse off as I wipe a few billion in assets off the field for little to no cost... Lol

    There's always a counter if you think hard enough, and if there isn't CCP will nerf the doctrine until there's a counter.
    GeeShizzle MacCloud
    #236 - 2015-04-07 02:02:37 UTC  |  Edited by: GeeShizzle MacCloud
    MeBiatch wrote:
    GeeShizzle MacCloud wrote:
    MeBiatch wrote:
    I dont get it... e link makes rr not work... so whats this panteon loki thing?


    for control of the grid.


    What i would do to counter this design wise... make rr stack and based on sig radius. Make sentry drones 50mb and make it so carries can't use sub capital drones. I would then add fittings for fighters and make tech two fighters.


    those are some ridiculously huge changes to the game as a whole let alone just to alleviate a pantheon loki doctrine. Considering there are still many many ways of defeating that in game without touching game mechanics or balance.

    if you're going to pitch into a discussion about game design then please don't post reactively with such insanely OP suggestions until you exhaust all other avenues of countering WITHIN the confines of the games combat systems.

    Rowells wrote:
    Gyges Skyeye wrote:


    From a user interface standpoint, can we get some clarity added to the game client on this. Modules all have a green cycle timer for ON, and a red cycle timer for OFF/SHUTTING DOWN. Something like a yellow or orange cycle timer for WARMING UP would probably suffice. It would let us more accurately know what the status of our personal entosis link is.

    Thanks

    the timer on the structure should be the one to have the count down.


    i dont think you understand his viewpoint here, he means the entosis links warm up cycle where the module hasn't affected the structure yet. There's no UI element to signify a warm up or spooling up time, only a cool down.
    Justin Cody
    War Firm
    #237 - 2015-04-07 02:18:58 UTC
    zerg rush for sov!
    Nolak Ataru
    Worm Holers Anonymous
    Hole Control
    #238 - 2015-04-07 04:04:59 UTC
    Cade Windstalker wrote:
    Nolak Ataru wrote:
    Again, drop drones and assist. Let the Pantheon Archons put 1 rep each on their designated Loki, and then everyone but the Loki can go play [insert game here] until a hostile cyno goes up or something big warps on grid. If a cyno goes up, unless it's a brick-tanked 1m EHP Proteus, it's going to die fairly quickly depending on the number of Archons / Chimeras on grid. If something warps in, even without TIDI there will be plenty of time for the Loki pilot to tell people to tab back to EVE and get ready to deal with whatever just came in.
    e: And Brave can do whatever they want but I don't think they're going to commit titans and supers against a defending Pantheon fleet.

    This doesn't seem to be any sort of problem directly with the new Sov mechanics, and therefore not exactly relevant to this thread.
    Besides, if you bring an all drone comp and go AFK I'll warp in a couple of bomber wings and laugh my arse off as I wipe a few billion in assets off the field for little to no cost... Lol
    There's always a counter if you think hard enough, and if there isn't CCP will nerf the doctrine until there's a counter.


    It's just bringing Pantheon and Boot Domis back for drone assist. And again, it takes little effort for the Loki pilots to say "Hey, bombers. Pull your drones". Should take 3 seconds or so. Bombs take 10 seconds to detonate. Bombers weren't a counter to Pantheon fleets then, and they won't be a counter to them now.
    If you expect to bomb the domis off the grid, the only FC I know who stuck around on grid for multiple bomber waves was CSM member corebloodbrothers, so if you're fighting The Volition Cult, you're in luck. It's no big trouble to warp a group of domis off grid to a safe or a planet.
    Cade Windstalker
    #239 - 2015-04-07 04:17:29 UTC
    Nolak Ataru wrote:
    It's just bringing Pantheon and Boot Domis back for drone assist. And again, it takes little effort for the Loki pilots to say "Hey, bombers. Pull your drones". Should take 3 seconds or so. Bombs take 10 seconds to detonate. Bombers weren't a counter to Pantheon fleets then, and they won't be a counter to them now.
    If you expect to bomb the domis off the grid, the only FC I know who stuck around on grid for multiple bomber waves was CSM member corebloodbrothers, so if you're fighting The Volition Cult, you're in luck. It's no big trouble to warp a group of domis off grid to a safe or a planet.


    At which point they've either left the grid alone (yay) or are no longer AFK?

    Either way, still not an issue with the Entosis mechanics.
    Iroquoiss Pliskin
    9B30FF Labs
    #240 - 2015-04-07 04:31:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Iroquoiss Pliskin
    Cade Windstalker wrote:
    There's always a counter if you think hard enough, and if there isn't CCP will nerf the doctrine until there's a counter.


    Cool story.

    Ishtar took how long exactly to get looked at? Roll

    And they targeted the wrong thing - this issue will keep coming back, mark my words.