These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Warfare & Tactics

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Paper, Rock, Scissors

Author
Mobadder Thworst
Doomheim
#1 - 2015-04-01 00:37:24 UTC
Ok, I write this for the newbros who are trying to PvP.

There are three basic frigate builds.

Close Range Brawler: -This is ships with Blasters, autocannons, etc...

This ship does the highest DPS, but only at short range (typically DPS drops a lot over 4k). This is a build you see everywhere.
Due to the low powergrid requirements of close range guns, this ship typically has high tank.

This is, in my opinion, the most common build.

Generally, the correct mode of using this ship is to "orbit at 500" and turn everything on.

Generally, the correct mode of killing this ship is to stay at least 4k from it and shoot it at range.

This build fails when it cannot control range... a Badger will kill this ship from 5k.

Bring a web. If you use a MWD, be prepared to be "dead in the water" getting killed from 5k if you encounter someone with a scrambler.



Mid Range scram or web kite - Rails, Rockets (I prefer rockets on this due to the low powergrid requirements for the range, but to each his own).

This build wins by staying outside the range of the brawler builds and projecting damage inside.

This can be done by using webs to control range, neuts to control range, or just high speed. If you use neuts to control range, you need enough tank to keep you alive until you can cap out your target.

Brawlers usually have scramblers, so this build really should avoid using MWD.

Rockets, for example, will not push comparable DPS to a close range brawler. If you try to fight close, you will lose. If you stay 7k from a target using small blasters (or autocannons, usually) you'll win even with a bad build.

The correct use of this build is to orbit between 5k and 10k.

The correct way to kill this build is to effectively tackle it with a brawler at close range or kite it from outside it's effective range.

Additional: If you try to use pure speed with a rocket build, you will find your damage goes down a lot. I recommend webs. Rockets have an explosion velocity of about 200, which means you will only do 20% of your DPS to a target moving at 1000 m/s. If you don't web a frigate, he'll dodge most of your DPS.



Long Range Kite Light Missiles, Artillery, Rails, etc...

This ship wins by staying at long range and projecting a relatively limited amount of DPS. Due to the high powergrid requirements of long range weapons and MWD, this ship typically has lighter tank.

Typically, this ship is fit with MWD and disruptor.

This ship better be fast, because if anything gets close enough to put a scrambler on it, it will typically die (because it will have no propulsion, light tank, and weapons systems that are best at long range).

I find this to be the most difficult type of ship to fly well because you have to pay such close attention and react so fast.



The core lesson:

Engagement range is more important in a frigate engagement than DPS (unless it's brawler vs brawler, in which case it's just a punch-out).

Speed (combined with speed control PVP modules like webs and neuts) dictates engagement range. Engagement range dictates who wins very directly.

Once everything is turned on, if both ships maneuver correctly, the faster ship will win (regardless of which type of ship you fly unless both ships are designed to play at the same range).

Orbit at 500 and turn everything on is NOT a style. Only do this if you're flying a short range brawler.


If you want more, check this tutorial I wrote a while back.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#2 - 2015-04-01 01:05:26 UTC
nice write up dude,

if you have an altruistic streak might i suggest you come hangout in new citizens q&a every now and again and help taint the newblood.

people with actual pvp experience (and exactly this kind of write up) are always valuable in there
and theirs some golden threads every so often.
Syrilian
Doomheim
#3 - 2015-04-01 16:09:15 UTC
Awesome post, thank you. I second posting to the newbie forum. As a newbie I would appreciate the advice.
Maksim Cammeren
Taxless Corp
#4 - 2015-04-02 03:13:22 UTC
Good post overall. This also to some degree applies to destroyers.


Some minor additions:
-on hulls with range bonuses, blasters with null can make effective scram kiters. These ships can switch between being brawlers and scram kiters with a change of ammo
-lasers are also common on long range kiters (slicer). Lasers can also be good on scram kiters, but laser ships do not always have the spare mid for a web to make it effective
-for a brawler, it is only a good idea to orbit if your guns have better tracking than your opponent or you are facing rockets and do not hurt your own damage when orbiting. When you have worse tracking, you want to do your best to minimize transversal by, for example, using "keep at range"


Frigate fights (especially 1v1s) are typically won by controlling the range/ship velocities to keep your own weapons in their "sweet spot", while minimizing effectiveness of enemy weapons.