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2nd Class Weapon System--Missiles!
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Goose99
#41 - 2011-12-06 05:22:11 UTC
The fact that canes and other Winmatar ships with launcher slots fill them with neuts instead of hmls says enough of their effectiveness. Your actions speak louder than words.Lol
Aedan Vals
Unreasonable Neighbours
Hole Control
#42 - 2011-12-06 11:38:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Aedan Vals
Goose99 wrote:
The fact that canes and other Winmatar ships with launcher slots fill them with neuts instead of hmls says enough of their effectiveness. Your actions speak louder than words.Lol

Hmmm... maybe you are right. Or maybe, MAYBE a neut worth more than an unbonused weapon. And there are some pilots (granted not too much) who fit launchers instead of neuts.
Mike Whiite
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#43 - 2011-12-06 11:42:50 UTC
Aedan Vals wrote:
Goose99 wrote:
The fact that canes and other Winmatar ships with launcher slots fill them with neuts instead of hmls says enough of their effectiveness. Your actions speak louder than words.Lol

Hmmm... maybe you are right. Or maybe, MAYBE a neut worth more than an unbonused weapon.



ever tried to fit a turret on a laucher hardpoint?
Aedan Vals
Unreasonable Neighbours
Hole Control
#44 - 2011-12-06 11:45:50 UTC
Mike Whiite wrote:
Aedan Vals wrote:
Goose99 wrote:
The fact that canes and other Winmatar ships with launcher slots fill them with neuts instead of hmls says enough of their effectiveness. Your actions speak louder than words.Lol

Hmmm... maybe you are right. Or maybe, MAYBE a neut worth more than an unbonused weapon.



ever tried to fit a turret on a laucher hardpoint?


Yes i realized. Still without any bonuses its hardly worth it.
Mike Whiite
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#45 - 2011-12-06 13:31:17 UTC
True though it's mostly a skill thing, missile damage multiplier comes from skills, unlike the turret multiplier and you need to be rather skilled before they start being worth it.
Wacktopia
Fleet-Up.com
Keep It Simple Software Group
#46 - 2011-12-06 14:46:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Wacktopia
Patri Andari wrote:


1. Reload

Turrets: All turrets can reload their ammo either instantly (lasers) or within 5 seconds.

Missiles: It still takes 10 seconds to load ammo.

Projectiles: Also have 10 second reload time. Hybrids are 5 because they are a hybrid between lazors and projectile.

Drones: Can take an age to swap out / fly to target when you release a new one etc - their effective 'reload' time

2. Ship penalties.

Turrets: Most if not all ship penalties have been removed from T2 turret ammo.

Missiles: Using T2 missiles still either blows up your ship's sig radius or slows you to a crawl.

Blasters: Void still suffer a tracking penalty as well as capacitor. Null suffers a massive tracking penalty.
Rails: Spike is pointless without an on-grid warp nerf.

3. Enhancement.

Turrets: Many different types of T2 ammo have been tweeked in their performance or the turrets themselves have been modified to provide better tracking, damage, range and so on by boosting the actual weapon it self or moduals that affect them like tracking enhancers.

Missiles: Nothing...and my Nighthawk still needs more grid!

Drake: Can fit strong tank + wmd + point and a full rack of damage mods in the lows. No other BC can do this.

4. You forgot to mention

- Missiles do not use cap. So no worries about capping out and not being able to use your weapons.
- You can select between 100% damage type. Yeah sucks a bit on the drake but you can select a damage type.
- Surprise factor that you cannot tell from looking at the ship what weapons they have fitted.



FYP

Kitchen sink? Seriousy, get your ship together -  Fleet-Up.com
Goose99
#47 - 2011-12-06 17:39:11 UTC
Aedan Vals wrote:
Mike Whiite wrote:
Aedan Vals wrote:
Goose99 wrote:
The fact that canes and other Winmatar ships with launcher slots fill them with neuts instead of hmls says enough of their effectiveness. Your actions speak louder than words.Lol

Hmmm... maybe you are right. Or maybe, MAYBE a neut worth more than an unbonused weapon.



ever tried to fit a turret on a laucher hardpoint?


Yes i realized. Still without any bonuses its hardly worth it.


Oh please, ppl fit unbonused projectiles on non-Winmatar boats all the time, often instead of bonused lesser weapons See? Actions speak louder than words.Lol
A'Brantox Foson
A'Brantox Foson Corporation
#48 - 2011-12-06 17:54:29 UTC
1. Too many caldari pilots.
2. Too many caldari pilots carebearing
3. Too many caldari pilots not going into low/nullsec.
4. Too many caldari pilots that have trained cruise missiles to 5. (wasted energy and money)
Goose99
#49 - 2011-12-06 18:46:56 UTC
A'Brantox Foson wrote:
Oh noez, Caldari pilots aren't going into null with their Ravens because their Cruises can't pvp.Oops


Solution: Buff it so that they can pvp.Cool
Castor Narcissus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#50 - 2011-12-06 18:50:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Castor Narcissus
Goose99 wrote:

Oh please, ppl fit unbonused projectiles on non-Winmatar boats all the time, often instead of bonused lesser weapons See? Actions speak louder than words


So what you propose is to buff missiles enough, so that people fit Launchers instead of Projectiles in unbonused slots.

Seems reasonable to me, where can i sign?
Goose99
#51 - 2011-12-06 19:10:52 UTC
Castor Narcissus wrote:
Goose99 wrote:

Oh please, ppl fit unbonused projectiles on non-Winmatar boats all the time, often instead of bonused lesser weapons See? Actions speak louder than words


So what you propose is to buff missiles enough, so that people fit Launchers instead of neuts in launcher slots.

Seems reasonable to me, where can i sign?


Fixed that for you.Big smile
GavinCapacitor
CaeIum Incognitum
#52 - 2011-12-06 19:52:27 UTC
Patri Andari wrote:
stoicfaux wrote:
-
Dare Devel wrote:

Missiles should also have weapon upgrade modules that buff Explosion Radius and Explosion Velocity.


Missiles already do. Target Painters affect both values by increasing the target's sig size, (but TPs, which can miss and only affect one ship at a time, aren't quite as convenient as a TC.) Webs help with explosion velocity (but are normally too short ranged to be of much use.)

/pedantic


Respect your opinions as most of your posts are spot on. But I have to disagree with you here. Target painters are helpful for all weapons. That being said, care to eliminate tracking enhancers and computers with the theory that you could just fit painters?



"My weapon system of choice should have the exact same upgrades with different names because I dislike the unique drawback that I am in no way forced to endure"

...

"WAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH"
Goose99
#53 - 2011-12-06 20:12:59 UTC
GavinCapacitor wrote:
Patri Andari wrote:
stoicfaux wrote:
-
Dare Devel wrote:

Missiles should also have weapon upgrade modules that buff Explosion Radius and Explosion Velocity.


Missiles already do. Target Painters affect both values by increasing the target's sig size, (but TPs, which can miss and only affect one ship at a time, aren't quite as convenient as a TC.) Webs help with explosion velocity (but are normally too short ranged to be of much use.)

/pedantic


Respect your opinions as most of your posts are spot on. But I have to disagree with you here. Target painters are helpful for all weapons. That being said, care to eliminate tracking enhancers and computers with the theory that you could just fit painters?



"My weapon system of choice should have the exact same upgrades with different names because I dislike the unique drawback that I am in no way forced to endure"

...

"WAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH"


That's like saying: "I want my gun drawbacks to be just like that of Winmatar." Oh wait, there aren't any.Big smile
Patri Andari
Thukker Tribe Antiquities Importer
#54 - 2011-12-07 01:00:57 UTC
Remove T2 Missile ship drawbacks please!






Be careful what you think, for your thoughts become your words. Be careful what you say, for your words become your actions. Be careful what you do, for your actions become your character. And character is everything. - author unknown
Sunviking
Doomheim
#55 - 2011-12-07 13:57:51 UTC
Missiles do need some work, but only tweaks.

Here's my ideas:

All Torps: Increased range (currently about the same as HAMs, they should be better than that), reduce explosion radius by 10-20%
All Cruises: Reduce explosion radius by 10-20%, increase Explosion velocity.
Javelin HAMs: These have inferior damage AND range to Fury Heavy Missiles. Reason I compare to Fury Heavies is because Javelin Torps have better DPS than Fury Cruises, at expense of Range. Not so with Javelin HAMs v Fury Heavies. Its a Balancing issue that needs to be resolved. So Javelin HAMs need to have DPS boosted, but thats it.
Standard Missiles: Reduce the fitting requirements of Standard Launchers, you can't really fit them to frigates.

The penalties of Tech 2 Missiles should be removed too. After this and the above is done, Missiles will be fairly balanced...

But it's just an idea Smile
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#56 - 2011-12-07 14:04:40 UTC
Sunviking wrote:
Missiles do need some work, but only tweaks.

Here's my ideas:

All Torps: Increased range (currently about the same as HAMs, they should be better than that), reduce explosion radius by 10-20%
All Cruises: Reduce explosion radius by 10-20%, increase Explosion velocity.
Javelin HAMs: These have inferior damage AND range to Fury Heavy Missiles. Reason I compare to Fury Heavies is because Javelin Torps have better DPS than Fury Cruises, at expense of Range. Not so with Javelin HAMs v Fury Heavies. Its a Balancing issue that needs to be resolved. So Javelin HAMs need to have DPS boosted, but thats it.
Standard Missiles: Reduce the fitting requirements of Standard Launchers, you can't really fit them to frigates.

The penalties of Tech 2 Missiles should be removed too. After this and the above is done, Missiles will be fairly balanced...

But it's just an idea Smile



I can go with that
Tasiv Deka
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#57 - 2011-12-07 15:40:09 UTC
Onictus wrote:
Sunviking wrote:
Missiles do need some work, but only tweaks.

Here's my ideas:

All Torps: Increased range (currently about the same as HAMs, they should be better than that), reduce explosion radius by 10-20%
All Cruises: Reduce explosion radius by 10-20%, increase Explosion velocity.
Javelin HAMs: These have inferior damage AND range to Fury Heavy Missiles. Reason I compare to Fury Heavies is because Javelin Torps have better DPS than Fury Cruises, at expense of Range. Not so with Javelin HAMs v Fury Heavies. Its a Balancing issue that needs to be resolved. So Javelin HAMs need to have DPS boosted, but thats it.
Standard Missiles: Reduce the fitting requirements of Standard Launchers, you can't really fit them to frigates.

The penalties of Tech 2 Missiles should be removed too. After this and the above is done, Missiles will be fairly balanced...

But it's just an idea Smile



I can go with that


i agree

also i do like the idea of giving torps (and possibly cruise) AoE damage.

Oh, Do go on... no seriously ive got nothing better to do then listen to all the petty arguments and feeble trolling attempts... 

The sad thing is i'm not sure if i'm telling the truth.
Thelron
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#58 - 2011-12-07 20:22:53 UTC
Sadayiel wrote:
SMT008 wrote:
Missiles themselves don't need a real boost.

Except for cruise missiles. They do need a boost though.

Torps could use some help. Skills should apply to those, it won't REALLY enhance them anyway, so no risk of unbalance. Blink

Standards should have reduced fitting requirements, Nighthawk should have a PWG boost.

Defenders need a complete rework. I don't know what kind of rework, but a BIG rework. Something that makes them worth to fit.

And T2 defenders, while you're at it. Cool

F.O.F missiles could use some changes maybe. They should do -20% DPS, still have the same range, and it should work like this, for exemple :

Either shoot the last target you were aggressing.

Or shoot the most efficient EW platform that was aggressing you.

That way, you either have the possibility to take down the last bits of structure that are holding your enemy's ship together, or the ability to remove the jamming/damping nuisance from the field.

And it looks fair to me, I guess Smile



Or CCP may revert the missiles to the original effects and be granted AoE dmg back again...

Plz oh PLZ!! do such thing just for the LULZ!!!


+1, and make sure that includes the old "if you can cram it in the rack, you can fire it" system instead of this "used with chargegroup" silliness brought in from turret-land.

It'd be nice if cruises and torps didn't require *so much* painting/webbing to be worth firing at anything other than L4 NPCs, though... torps aren't even *really* all that good for that. 5-second ammo change and extra modules and all is just stupid though... too many things that need a little basic adjustment get whitewashed with a ton of major ovarhauls elsewhere as it is.
Mira Lynne
State War Academy
Caldari State
#59 - 2011-12-08 02:12:04 UTC
Definitely needs some work. IMO:
Increase Torp/HAM/Rocket Explosion Radius.
Make Explosion Radius Skill/Rigs affect Torp/HAM/Rockets.
Increase Torp Damage by 5-15%
Increase Cruise Damage Drastically.
Possibly Include some sort of Tracking Computer/ Tracking Enhances for missiles? Reduces Exp. Radius and increases Flight Time, Velocity, and Exp. Velocity, and can take scripts. Would make the Golem slightly more user friendly.

[u]I, too, horse frogs.[/u] Support the Return of Realistic Module Icons! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=114818&find=unread
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