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The Shrinking Sandbox - Eve by numbers

First post First post First post
Author
Eve Solecist
Shitt Outta Luck - GANKING4GOOD
#501 - 2015-05-09 18:19:58 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Gaellia Bonaventure wrote:
Eve Solecist wrote:

Haven't you heard? The game is losing subs.
The 40k we almost reached last week on sunday mean nothing.

.


CCP need not fear. Alts will keep this game alive.


Just don't tell them that after making easier to have an alt (2011-2013) and easier to spend more money with each account (2013-present) the only thing left is to allow to play without paying forward.

Yes, you read that well.

F2P.

In your EVE.

Why other reason could be to even ~think~ of permadeath? (Well, almost-permadeath. Pay 10$ and you can keep 5 million SP).
Yeah, I agree.

You're right.
  • All incoming connection attempts are being blocked. If you want to speak to me you will find me either in Hek local, you can create a contract or make a thread about it in General Discussions. I will call you back. -
Nevase Prometeus
Fuel Blocks for Dante
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#502 - 2015-05-09 21:18:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Nevase Prometeus
First I had to apologize for my poor English language.

In my point of views. I had play EVE for nearly 2 years. I'm solo PVE player with no corp (I stay in NPC corp) and alt. It is very hard for player to stay solo and enjoy the contents while another PVP player targets you. I understood the sandbox concept PVP is fun and be another way to enjoy EVE . Solo player like me try to adapt and learning to survive but it is not easy . So from dificult come to irritated to angers and finally to boring.

EVE is still fun for player who had corp and friend but difficult and hard for solo player. Yes somebody might ask why not join corp. The answer is as same as why player join crop. Each player had their way to enjoy EVE . That is why somebody feel less player. Becuase when EVE had only old and royalty player but hard and brutal for new player who had fresh start espicially solo player who want to enjoy EVE content quietly.

Nowaday I paid for my account yearly till maybe this september but I had not let my ship fly anymore just login and set learning skill for a month. I don't know I'll stay in EVE or not . Sincerely I love EVE but when you can't enjoy game as you want to play maybe it time to say goodbye.

Thanks and apologize again for my poor grammar.
Logan Revelore
Symbiotic Systems
#503 - 2015-05-09 22:57:41 UTC
If CCP want subs to increase by a decent amount they need to convert the sandbox into a sandpark. There's excellent PvP and sandbox gameplay in this game, but there's no PvE served stories of value. The only stories are those we the players write and serve each others, but that won't bring in substantial numbers of people.

That's why this game is a niche.

If they want it to be more than that they need to give this amazing sandbox some prebuilt sand castles that a more mainstream player can knock over. How this can be done is out of the scope of this post. The key take away is Sandpark though. In the very slim chance people want me to bring a suggestion to the table on how this can be accomplished they're welcomed to throw me a PM.
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#504 - 2015-05-10 02:06:09 UTC
Nevase Prometeus wrote:
First I had to apologize for my poor English language.

In my point of views. I had play EVE for nearly 2 years. I'm solo PVE player with no corp (I stay in NPC corp) and alt. It is very hard for player to stay solo and enjoy the contents while another PVP player targets you. I understood the sandbox concept PVP is fun and be another way to enjoy EVE . Solo player like me try to adapt and learning to survive but it is not easy . So from dificult come to irritated to angers and finally to boring......

Logan Revelore wrote:
If CCP want subs to increase by a decent amount .....

Eve is a game based solely on non-consensual PVP.

PVE content is designed as a means for players to make isk to engage in PVP.

That is not to say a guy who wants to do only PVE should not be allowed to but they have to keep in mind, someone else may wish to engage them in the core aspect of the game and attack him.

It would be interesting if Eve had more of a role play aspect to it. NPC Sandcastles to conquer. Just how that would work in a world of non-consensual PVP is another thing.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.

Ned Thomas
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#505 - 2015-05-10 02:38:44 UTC
I just realized this thread was still going.

Why the f**k is this thread still going?
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#506 - 2015-05-10 03:18:20 UTC
Ned Thomas wrote:
I just realized this thread was still going.

Why the f**k is this thread still going?

Why shouldn't it be?

No-one is forcing you to read it.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.

Jenshae Chiroptera
#507 - 2015-05-10 03:57:12 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Just one funny fact.
The price and traded amount of white glaze and Caldari fuel blocks in Jita are going down, and have been for months.
Less demand for ore + less demand for fuel = less towers consuming it + less industry? Question
I have the inside scoop on what is happening with this.
Going to show some people, it will give them a chuckle. Will try remember to post about it when it is irrelevant. Blink
(You need to go back to the drawing board on this one).

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#508 - 2015-05-10 06:52:35 UTC
Logan Revelore wrote:
If CCP want subs to increase by a decent amount they need to convert the sandbox into a sandpark. There's excellent PvP and sandbox gameplay in this game, but there's no PvE served stories of value. The only stories are those we the players write and serve each others, but that won't bring in substantial numbers of people.

That's why this game is a niche.

If they want it to be more than that they need to give this amazing sandbox some prebuilt sand castles that a more mainstream player can knock over. How this can be done is out of the scope of this post. The key take away is Sandpark though. In the very slim chance people want me to bring a suggestion to the table on how this can be accomplished they're welcomed to throw me a PM.



There is no support whatsoever for the idea that CCP are even able to do this, even if they were stupid enough to try and emulate the incredible success of ST:O.

EVE famously has the worst PvE of any MMO, and there's a reason for this (and it's not an ideological one).

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#509 - 2015-05-10 07:07:25 UTC
As for the ideological reason, well I wrote about that a while ago.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#510 - 2015-05-10 07:14:54 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
As for the ideological reason, well I wrote about that a while ago.
Wonderful article, thanks dude.

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!

Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#511 - 2015-05-10 09:04:03 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
As for the ideological reason, well I wrote about that a while ago.


One of my few natural talents is that of word-looming and story-telling. I can assemble words and tell stories with them in ways other people enjoy. Amazingly enough, I've been able to do that even in a foreign language I learned mostly on the internet.

Contrary to common belief, I don't want a peaceful New Eden where everybody loves each other. I know that it would make a terrible narrative. But my view of New Eden is the view of a place where people like me, who would make terrible warrirors in RL, still have a way to deal with those warriors.

You know. When someone wants to kill you, you can stand up all your 6'6" tall, grab your sword and your chainmail and a helmet and a shield and go kill him first, or wait for him to come. But not when you're chubby and shortsighted and unsporty. He still wants to kill you, and he would do in a open fight, sword vs sword. But he can't kill you if you sneak into his bedroom and slit his throat while he sleeps. Or you may poison him, or burn his house, or just hire ten guys to kill him while he's busy herding his sheeps.

It's not very glamurous, admittedly. War is fine, whereas assasination is mean. But in my view of New Eden, the consequences of using your sword against an unarmed guy who "didn't readied for a fight" should be about as fearsome as being unarmed and see a guy coming after you with a sword. "Didn't readied for assasination" should be an option.

That would be a better narrative than "some guys use swords and stay subbed for years and others are killed with swords and quit in a few months but it's OK because everyone can use the same swords and there's an unlimited supply of victims".

EVE needs poison, hired thugs, and a timely slit throat each now and then. EVE needs more consequences. More risk.

PvPrs can use PvP on PvErs. PvErs should be able to use PvE on PvPrs. This way everybody would face consequences and risk, and not just the guys who don't PvP.

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#512 - 2015-05-10 11:35:06 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:


PvPrs can use PvP on PvErs. PvErs should be able to use PvE on PvPrs. This way everybody would face consequences and risk, and not just the guys who don't PvP.


And what, in this frankly batshit insane scheme of things, will stop the "PvPers" from using PvE on "PvErs"?

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#513 - 2015-05-10 12:35:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
Malcanis wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:


PvPrs can use PvP on PvErs. PvErs should be able to use PvE on PvPrs. This way everybody would face consequences and risk, and not just the guys who don't PvP.


And what, in this frankly batshit insane scheme of things, will stop the "PvPers" from using PvE on "PvErs"?


Security status and killrights.

From tamer to nastier:

Some of the PvE "PvP" should be universally available
Some of the PvE "PvP" should be available only on characters with negative security
Some of the PvE "PvP" should be available only on characters with -10.0 sec
Some of the PvE "PvP" should be available only on characters with any active killright from any character
Some of the PvE "PvP" should be available only on characters with a active killright from the PvE "agressor"

Also some choices could be added to wardeccers only.

Anyone engaging into "unconsensual PvP" should be exposed to "unconsensual PvP through other means". At least potentially.

Players who didn't engaged into unconsensual PvP would still be exposed to, huh, unconsensual PvP. But would be given tools to exact revenge by playing their way, and not the PvPr's way.

And that's the whole beauty of the concept. You play your way and your way allows you to push me, and then I may choose to push you back by playing my way.

You wardec me... I peacedec you. Ying and Yang.

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you

Eve Solecist
Shitt Outta Luck - GANKING4GOOD
#514 - 2015-05-10 13:24:41 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
As for the ideological reason, well I wrote about that a while ago.


One of my few natural talents is that of word-looming and story-telling. I can assemble words and tell stories with them in ways other people enjoy. Amazingly enough, I've been able to do that even in a foreign language I learned mostly on the internet.

Contrary to common belief, I don't want a peaceful New Eden where everybody loves each other. I know that it would make a terrible narrative. But my view of New Eden is the view of a place where people like me, who would make terrible warrirors in RL, still have a way to deal with those warriors.

You know. When someone wants to kill you, you can stand up all your 6'6" tall, grab your sword and your chainmail and a helmet and a shield and go kill him first, or wait for him to come. But not when you're chubby and shortsighted and unsporty. He still wants to kill you, and he would do in a open fight, sword vs sword. But he can't kill you if you sneak into his bedroom and slit his throat while he sleeps. Or you may poison him, or burn his house, or just hire ten guys to kill him while he's busy herding his sheeps.

It's not very glamurous, admittedly. War is fine, whereas assasination is mean. But in my view of New Eden, the consequences of using your sword against an unarmed guy who "didn't readied for a fight" should be about as fearsome as being unarmed and see a guy coming after you with a sword. "Didn't readied for assasination" should be an option.

That would be a better narrative than "some guys use swords and stay subbed for years and others are killed with swords and quit in a few months but it's OK because everyone can use the same swords and there's an unlimited supply of victims".

EVE needs poison, hired thugs, and a timely slit throat each now and then. EVE needs more consequences. More risk.

PvPrs can use PvP on PvErs. PvErs should be able to use PvE on PvPrs. This way everybody would face consequences and risk, and not just the guys who don't PvP.

I agree, that's quite some word looming and story telling.
  • All incoming connection attempts are being blocked. If you want to speak to me you will find me either in Hek local, you can create a contract or make a thread about it in General Discussions. I will call you back. -
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#515 - 2015-05-10 13:45:26 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:


PvPrs can use PvP on PvErs. PvErs should be able to use PvE on PvPrs. This way everybody would face consequences and risk, and not just the guys who don't PvP.


And what, in this frankly batshit insane scheme of things, will stop the "PvPers" from using PvE on "PvErs"?


Security status and killrights.

From tamer to nastier:

Some of the PvE "PvP" should be universally available
Some of the PvE "PvP" should be available only on characters with negative security
Some of the PvE "PvP" should be available only on characters with -10.0 sec
Some of the PvE "PvP" should be available only on characters with any active killright from any character
Some of the PvE "PvP" should be available only on characters with a active killright from the PvE "agressor"

Also some choices could be added to wardeccers only.

Anyone engaging into "unconsensual PvP" should be exposed to "unconsensual PvP through other means". At least potentially.

Players who didn't engaged into unconsensual PvP would still be exposed to, huh, unconsensual PvP. But would be given tools to exact revenge by playing their way, and not the PvPr's way.

And that's the whole beauty of the concept. You play your way and your way allows you to push me, and then I may choose to push you back by playing my way.

You wardec me... I peacedec you. Ying and Yang.


That's a lovely sounding story, sailing the sea of dreams, but it founders on the rock of reality and drowns in the sea of inconvenient facts.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Nevase Prometeus
Fuel Blocks for Dante
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#516 - 2015-05-10 13:58:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Nevase Prometeus
I just think about simple solutions and need more polishment . Compensation or Punishment.

Like security status. When someone start shoot you and you don't fight back . After you die the killer got 'predator' status and you got 'prey' status.

Now is base on history of both side.If predator had a lot of prey in their list and prey is never or rarely start a fight. It's trigger

Prey could send 'report' to some npc lke Concord. So NPC could do punishments (like Concord going to destroy ship or podkill as same as predator do with prey) maybe even predator had gone to null or lowsec.

Or prey could choose 'compensation' like Concord's watchlist as long as prey stay in hisec when prey got attack again Concord come and help him instantly.

This situation will happen like one kill for one actions.

This idea is just a draft idea . So EVE could stay in PVP sandbox just make some rooms for anothers player that does not like PVP.

Thanks for sharing.
Solecist Project
#517 - 2015-05-10 14:18:00 UTC
Nevase Prometeus wrote:
I just think about simple solutions and need more polishment . Compensation or Punishment.

Like security status. When someone start shoot you and you don't fight back . After you die the killer got 'predator' status and you got 'prey' status.

Now is base on history of both side.If predator had a lot of prey in their list and prey is never or rarely start a fight. It's trigger

Prey could send 'report' to some npc lke Concord. So NPC could do punishments (like Concord going to destroy ship or podkill as same as predator do with prey) maybe even predator had gone to null or lowsec.

Or prey could choose 'compensation' like Concord's watchlist as long as prey stay in hisec when prey got attack again Concord come and help him instantly.

This situation will happen like one kill for one actions.

This idea is just a draft idea . So EVE could stay in PVP sandbox just make some rooms for anothers player that does not like PVP.

Thanks for sharing.

Yeah I agree, people need to make some room if they don't like PvP.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#518 - 2015-05-10 14:26:42 UTC
Nevase Prometeus wrote:
I just think about simple solutions and need more polishment . Compensation or Punishment.

Like security status. When someone start shoot you and you don't fight back . After you die the killer got 'predator' status and you got 'prey' status.

Now is base on history of both side.If predator had a lot of prey in their list and prey is never or rarely start a fight. It's trigger

Prey could send 'report' to some npc lke Concord. So NPC could do punishments (like Concord going to destroy ship or podkill as same as predator do with prey) maybe even predator had gone to null or lowsec.

Or prey could choose 'compensation' like Concord's watchlist as long as prey stay in hisec when prey got attack again Concord come and help him instantly.

This situation will happen like one kill for one actions.

This idea is just a draft idea . So EVE could stay in PVP sandbox just make some rooms for anothers player that does not like PVP.

Thanks for sharing.


And if someone never mines or manufactures, they should be allowed to have free NPC minerals and goods?

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Nevase Prometeus
Fuel Blocks for Dante
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#519 - 2015-05-10 15:04:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Nevase Prometeus
Malcanis wrote:
Nevase Prometeus wrote:
I just think about simple solutions and need more polishment . Compensation or Punishment.

Like security status. When someone start shoot you and you don't fight back . After you die the killer got 'predator' status and you got 'prey' status.

Now is base on history of both side.If predator had a lot of prey in their list and prey is never or rarely start a fight. It's trigger

Prey could send 'report' to some npc lke Concord. So NPC could do punishments (like Concord going to destroy ship or podkill as same as predator do with prey) maybe even predator had gone to null or lowsec.

Or prey could choose 'compensation' like Concord's watchlist as long as prey stay in hisec when prey got attack again Concord come and help him instantly.

This situation will happen like one kill for one actions.

This idea is just a draft idea . So EVE could stay in PVP sandbox just make some rooms for anothers player that does not like PVP.

Thanks for sharing.


And if someone never mines or manufactures, they should be allowed to have free NPC minerals and goods?



No. they should work as ordinary player mining manufactures just had this protocal like you keep yourself clean such as 1 weeks this system will start to protect you. So when any PVP want to play with you they had two options.
1. ask prey to turn this status off
2. attack without prey accept and facing compensations or punishments as abobe.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#520 - 2015-05-10 16:25:26 UTC
Community toxicity might be helping to push players out of EVE and maybe we are getting veteran top heavy, so newbies feel they have too far to go.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.