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The Shrinking Sandbox - Eve by numbers

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Author
Jenshae Chiroptera
#181 - 2015-04-04 17:48:15 UTC
Max Deveron wrote:
... and between both of us we have sen that most people are easily bored and quit because of the lack of Combat PvP....
Actually, I am in Providence and I am bored of all the PVP. There is always some solo, pair or tiny gang coming along, so frequently that I can't be bothered to make the effort to fight them.
Rinse and repeat, meaningless little fights.

In June, it will be worse, they will be griefing structures.

Why should some non-threat, meaningless little gang be given the tools to force us to fight? They can't even get a decent fleet together.
Height of entitlment that they feel they deserve to waste our time.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Eve Solecist
Shitt Outta Luck - GANKING4GOOD
#182 - 2015-04-04 21:05:04 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Max Deveron wrote:
... and between both of us we have sen that most people are easily bored and quit because of the lack of Combat PvP....
Actually, I am in Providence and I am bored of all the PVP. There is always some solo, pair or tiny gang coming along, so frequently that I can't be bothered to make the effort to fight them.
Rinse and repeat, meaningless little fights.

In June, it will be worse, they will be griefing structures.

Why should some non-threat, meaningless little gang be given the tools to force us to fight? They can't even get a decent fleet together.
Height of entitlment that they feel they deserve to waste our time.

Entitlement.
  • All incoming connection attempts are being blocked. If you want to speak to me you will find me either in Hek local, you can create a contract or make a thread about it in General Discussions. I will call you back. -
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#183 - 2015-04-04 21:13:19 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Max Deveron wrote:
... and between both of us we have sen that most people are easily bored and quit because of the lack of Combat PvP....
Actually, I am in Providence and I am bored of all the PVP. There is always some solo, pair or tiny gang coming along, so frequently that I can't be bothered to make the effort to fight them.
Rinse and repeat, meaningless little fights.

In June, it will be worse, they will be griefing structures.

Why should some non-threat, meaningless little gang be given the tools to force us to fight? They can't even get a decent fleet together.
Height of entitlment that they feel they deserve to waste our time.


Talks about entitlement

Wants to have a gigantic structure grind shield to avoid having to actually defend her space

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#184 - 2015-04-04 21:19:08 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:


Why should some non-threat, meaningless little gang be given the tools to force us to fight? They can't even get a decent fleet together.

As you said, this will change in June.

I'm my own NPC alt.

Max Deveron
Deveron Shipyards and Technology
Citizen's Star Republic
#185 - 2015-04-04 22:53:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Max Deveron
Klaus Tylar wrote:
Max Deveron wrote:
And lets face it....most new players are not having any fun.


Of the eight new players I have recruited in the past couple months, none of them have complained about not having fun- A few needed a bit more guidance than the new player experience offered, yes, but they were eager to learn the game. In fact, they all seem to be having a pretty awesome time in general! Many ships lost, many good fights had. While I recognize this is a limited sample size, I have trouble imagining that the wider picture is too far off from what I am seeing with these newbies.



Well good for you and your group/corp /whatever.
And thank you for arguing my points for me.
Both the one about newbros getting out of NPC Corps and truly experiencing things and JUST doing something as part of a real group.
And the point of recruiting newbros on purpose.

now Jeanshae no one is saying you have to COMBAT pvp....but if not be willing to defend or at least thwart others before they even try to intefere with your gameplay is a problem.....well then i think you truly playing the wrong game.

now for other things.......
Start with my recent past 2 yrs.....
Recruited: 74
Quit due to girlfrind/wife aggro: 2
Quit to being lazy: 17 (wanted their hand held and ISK + Stuff thrown at them)
Quit to being unwilling to defend things and feeling entitled to being safe in highsec: 36 (afk style play of any sort)
Quit before 14 day trial was over: 4
Quit because they couldnt pay to win: 3
Retention Rate in EvE: 12 or 16% (not good roughly 2 for every 10)
2 FW players having fun
5 indy having fun
2 Nullsec/WH players having fun
1 incursion runner having fun
2 career ganker/pirate players having fun.

Major complaints i have heard:
1.) Unable to make Isk without being killed every day
2.) Unable to create their own corp and go to losec for moon mining (or whatever)
3.) Unable to understand why missioning, mining, standings, and salvaging......AND ganking go hand in hand.
4.) Wanted to get rich and plex accounts in first 60 days but cant even understand why the market works the way it does.
5.) Wants to get into Big fights but nobody will recruit them and dont have time to grow a large SP pool so they are not slave to someone.
5a.) But when in a corp in highsec and a fight does come....."i dont want to, i want to keep mining make them go away!"

Anyway, i have not been recruiting for the past 12 months.....I have over the 5+ yrs of playing seen these type of complaints and stuff on a much larger scale.
Its not the game in truth that has barriers to learning or having fun............
Its the players already in the game that have set those Barriers in place.....and until Vets want to knock them down Newbro retention will always suck.

Its up to us already here to open the doors we have locked. NPE is crap, maybe getting better....but its still crap. Oh yeah....
Recent complaint: "These oppurtunity missions are set to fail....have to buy a gun and then ammo and load it to complete...but the gun is too much and both items are not even in system." Not sure what to say to that one.....make an effort to get out and explore?
thatonepersone
Black Jack 0-1
#186 - 2015-04-05 00:37:14 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Max Deveron wrote:
... and between both of us we have sen that most people are easily bored and quit because of the lack of Combat PvP....
Actually, I am in Providence and I am bored of all the PVP. There is always some solo, pair or tiny gang coming along, so frequently that I can't be bothered to make the effort to fight them.
Rinse and repeat, meaningless little fights.

In June, it will be worse, they will be griefing structures.

Why should some non-threat, meaningless little gang be given the tools to force us to fight? They can't even get a decent fleet together.
Height of entitlment that they feel they deserve to waste our time.


Lol the only person acting entitled in that scenario is you.

I don't know why everybody thinks they will need to have links on all of there structures for the full 4 hours. Do you have fleets up 24/7 now to defend your structures?

I think it's kind of funny that people are posting say they are quiting because they can't use there carriers from there post shields and because there some sov mechanics might possibly maybe be changed in a certain way. I guess it's good for the game to get rid of those types of people though.
Asura Vajrarupa
Doomheim
#187 - 2015-04-05 00:55:10 UTC
thatonepersone wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Max Deveron wrote:
... and between both of us we have sen that most people are easily bored and quit because of the lack of Combat PvP....
Actually, I am in Providence and I am bored of all the PVP. There is always some solo, pair or tiny gang coming along, so frequently that I can't be bothered to make the effort to fight them.
Rinse and repeat, meaningless little fights.

In June, it will be worse, they will be griefing structures.

Why should some non-threat, meaningless little gang be given the tools to force us to fight? They can't even get a decent fleet together.
Height of entitlment that they feel they deserve to waste our time.


Lol the only person acting entitled in that scenario is you.

I don't know why everybody thinks they will need to have links on all of there structures for the full 4 hours. Do you have fleets up 24/7 now to defend your structures?

I think it's kind of funny that people are posting say they are quiting because they can't use there carriers from there post shields and because there some sov mechanics might possibly maybe be changed in a certain way. I guess it's good for the game to get rid of those types of people though.


Easy money is hard to part with. They thought they had it made, and in the process got fat and sloppy. They forgot that the only money they are entitled to is the money that's in their wallet.

Ignorance is the cause of suffering.

Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#188 - 2015-04-05 01:17:43 UTC
xxxTRUSTxxx wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:


My opinions are mine.

If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK



opinions are like arseholes, everyones got one, so you don't agree with mine, but it's ok. RollBlink am i right Lol

you want information now!

so demanding it on the forums or you'll leave is the way to go ? lol
you ever wonder why you got so called troll answers in this thread from the devs?
you pay to play like the rest of us, but demanding shite or you'll rage quit on us?,,, lol,,, come on.
if the sandbox is shrinking as you claim then how is EVE not going to die, shrinking means getting smaller does it not? smaller leads to dead areas of space because of less choice or freedom?
servers not needed, devs not needed, CCP shrinks,, EVE dies,,, no?
this so called shrinking doesn't lead to the end ?
what you mean is players are going to leave and others will replace them. again what's new ? this is every game on the planet, not just EVE.

i can understand you really want to know what's going on, but you'll just have to wait like the rest of us.

what you want me to do is tell you what i think will happen come june, you want me to play the guessing game.

I've no feckin idea, i don't work for CCP nor have CCP completed their decisions on sov and released this information to us,
they've spoken about ideas, they're still working on stuff, to speculate on something we know little about and that's what you're doing is a little silly and further more you're willing to quit the game for it.
you want speculation, bullshite in other words,,, k,,,, how about, alliances rule their own space, bloks no longer can project their power, so no longer exist as they do today, members of the current bloks get bored, people need people to shoot. CFC disbands because there isn't enough targets for their PVP pilots, N3 find themselves in the same postion, N3 breaks into 2 smaller bloks, CVA grow beyond belief, new system suits them perfect, high sec begins to empty out as smaller alliances take sov of 1 or 2 systems, high sec shrinks (drifter related) <<<< <<< total bullshite, nothing but speculation that serves no purpose but to talk shite about, a bit like beer talk.

proving your theories wrong. really,,, you think i want to prove your theories wrong. i can't, you're speaking from an alt.
i can't know your true loyalties or gaming style, you're just another alt on the forums claiming to have 10 accounts that you'll unsub if things don't go the way you want.
what if this and what if that. ah well if my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle.
if you've made your mind up and have already decided your time in EVE is coming to an end why are you on here claiming you care and making threats to unsub? you do realise that threat has as much weight to it now as a bag of air. like regardless you've already accepted the end is nigh.
like why does it matter to you if the sandbox is shrinking? most people who stick around play it, love it,, burn out and leave, some come back, some don't. again a natural trend for all games alike.
why not accept this new challange that CCP presents us with come june, instead of i'll unsub if you don't do what i want CCP.

I started playing eve (after 3 failed attempts) just under 8 years ago. The last 4 or 5 in particular have been spent waiting for CCP to deliver on hollow promises, seen my style of play (in a sandbox, where your imagination WAS the only limit) change so much it feels like i am playing a different game.

I'm not 'threatening" anything, I am doing - There is a big difference (to me) between threatening to leave and leaving.
My leaving will have little to no affect on Eve but is having a huge affect on me personally. For the really stupid like me, Eve became more than "just a game".



The only challenge being introduced in June, based on available information, will be which coalition will be the best to align with.

Sure, 3 or 4 years from now when CCP have ironed out all the flaws in Sov 5.0, sov nul might be a challenging and rewarding place to set up home but I really don't want to hang around while the throng of ex players working for CCP try to mold it into their personal fantasy game.

If my brother or anyone else changed the way I want to spend my time the way CCP are limiting my choices to play eve, I'd have smacked them up the side of the head years ago. I don't want to pay for and play eve when my play style is being limited to someone else's idea of "fun". I have always played eve because I could do whatever I wanted, how I wanted, when I wanted and I wore the consequences of MY actions, good and bad with a modicum of pride.

From June, if i chose to continue to play, as I have for the last 4 and a bit years (living in sov nul), my play style and time will be narrowed and dictated by a series of mini games with an on off switch (prime time) and the use of a single module, really holds little interest for me.
All structures in nulsec will soon be little more than FW buttons, won and lost in the same fashion but only during a set period of time each day. Just sounds so exciting What?Roll
- - - - - - - - - - -
You earlier said something about finger on pulse, I presume meaning, keeping your eyes and ears open, listening and talking to others to garner information. Then state you have no idea or thoughts on what may happen post June. Interesting.,.

BTW, you left out the most relevant part of my signature - Just don't bother hating, I don't care.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.

xxxTRUSTxxx
Galactic Rangers
#189 - 2015-04-05 13:39:41 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:

BTW, you left out the most relevant part of my signature - Just don't bother hating, I don't care.


there isn't an ounce of hate here. why do you draw conclusions without a shread of proof. why would i hate you?
your sig points towards you having issue with people because they don't agree with you.
you seem to think people hate you because they don't agree with your opinions and you want them to know you don't care.
i didin't include that part of your sig because there is no hate here.

i still think your wrong, CCP aren't about to feck their own business sideways just because they're bored and want to nerf shite.
this 4 hour timer you keep going on about was an idea. it's not and never was a final decision.
i think your issue is drawing conclusions without enough data, you've done it a few times with me alone already in this thread.

but this.....

"If my brother or anyone else changed the way I want to spend my time the way CCP are limiting my choices to play eve, I'd have smacked them up the side of the head years ago"

man you need to calm down.



Seven Koskanaiken
Shadow Legions.
#190 - 2015-04-05 15:08:30 UTC
What is this thread even about.
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#191 - 2015-04-05 16:37:00 UTC
Antonia Iskarius wrote:


I also dislike how the ship 'rebalancing' has led to a situation where there is basically only one or two ways to correctly fit each ship due to the extremely specific roles/bonuses/slots/etc. You can often guess how a ship is going to be fit now, there isn't a lot of guesswork except for in the case of T3s.

Players use a new tactic like Skynet? Completely nerf supers and carriers into the ground, remove delegation because whiny players need their risk adverse hands held instead of figuring out how to win on their own.

THIS^ so much this^.

The rebalancing is a joke. I call it the WoWification of Eve. I left WoW due to all the whinny bitching about "balance". I see eve ruining this game with the same crap and it makes even less sense here where anyone can fly any ship. Also there is no level cap on end game balanced 40 man battlegrounds. It used to be that each race had their niche flavor. Now they just look different. They are dumbing the game down so that it does not seem so overwhelming to new players and new players are still overwhelmed.

Seriously CCP you dumb this game down enough to compete with WoW and you'll loose your playerbase.

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli

Jenshae Chiroptera
#192 - 2015-04-05 16:49:16 UTC
Tipa Riot wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Why should some non-threat, meaningless little gang be given the tools to force us to fight? They can't even get a decent fleet together.
As you said, this will change in June.
Yup

  1. Loads of skirmishes.
  2. Bored defenders.
  3. Defenders base themselves out of NPC Null or Low Sec
  4. New people move into SOV Null
  5. Loads of skirmishes

Now this is where it will vary:

- New people give up and go back to what they were doing.
or
- New people accept they can't have iHubs or Moons and will be extorted instead of paying rent.
or
- Ping-pong SOV is removed and the new people are evicted, things basically go back to what it is like now.
or
- Everyone finally realises how stupid the Fozzie Logic SOV is and SOV Null becomes a waste land like Low Sec.

I am betting on Low Sec 2.0 for the majority of Null SOV. Blink

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Astroniomix
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#193 - 2015-04-05 17:08:38 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Tipa Riot wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Why should some non-threat, meaningless little gang be given the tools to force us to fight? They can't even get a decent fleet together.
As you said, this will change in June.
Yup

  1. Loads of skirmishes.
  2. Bored defenders.
  3. Defenders base themselves out of NPC Null or Low Sec
  4. New people move into SOV Null
  5. Loads of skirmishes

Now this is where it will vary:

- New people give up and go back to what they were doing.
or
- New people accept they can't have iHubs or Moons and will be extorted instead of paying rent.
or
- Ping-pong SOV is removed and the new people are evicted, things basically go back to what it is like now.
or
- Everyone finally realises how stupid the Fozzie Logic SOV is and SOV Null becomes a waste land like Low Sec.

I am betting on Low Sec 2.0 for the majority of Null SOV. Blink

Or people who aren't terrible at EVE move in.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#194 - 2015-04-05 17:20:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenshae Chiroptera
Astroniomix wrote:
... or people who aren't terrible at EVE move in.
Not for long. The huge alliance that are controlling that space from NPC Null and Low Sec will have an even easier time of grinding them down with griefing.

Every stray little gang of random roamers can come through and set off timers. You have no idea which ones you need to go and respond to defend. Then the large entities can just take advantage of them and third party on them. Pop up in a few places and make you run back and forth.

Fozzie SOV is going to be griefer paradise.

Personally, if I were messing around with SOV, I would hire some high sec roamers to swarm through and set off all the reinforcement timers they can, preferably so they all come to fruition at the same time. Then I would arrange with a nearby large alliance to hit one side of your space while I attack the other at the same time.

Try have enough numbers to do anything effective when all you can hope to defend is one pocket half the time.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#195 - 2015-04-05 17:25:52 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:


  • Bored defenders


  • Or excited people getting more fights in small gangs with some meaning for the alliance Blink

    I'm my own NPC alt.

    Astroniomix
    School of Applied Knowledge
    Caldari State
    #196 - 2015-04-05 17:26:09 UTC
    Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
    Astroniomix wrote:
    ... or people who aren't terrible at EVE move in.
    Not for long. The huge alliance that are controlling that space from NPC Null and Low Sec will have an even easier time of grinding them down with griefing.

    Every stray little gang of random roamers can come through and set off timers. You have no idea which ones you need to go and respond to defend. Then the large entities can just take advantage of them and third party on them. Pop up in a few places and make you run back and forth.

    Fozzie SOV is going to be griefer paradise.

    Personally, if I were messing around with SOV, I would hire some high sec roamers to swarm through and set off all the reinforcement timers they can, preferably so they all come to fruition at the same time. Then I would arrange with a nearby large alliance to hit one side of your space while I attack the other at the same time.

    Try have enough numbers to do anything effective when all you can hope to defend is one pocket half the time.

    Claim less space then.
    Nicolai Serkanner
    Incredible.
    Brave Collective
    #197 - 2015-04-05 18:51:34 UTC
    Sgt Ocker wrote:
    I have always played eve because I could do whatever I wanted, how I wanted, when I wanted and I wore the consequences of MY actions, good and bad with a modicum of pride.

    You didn't. You had to play the mechanics the game offered you. That is still the same. You just don't accept the changes. That is quite different from what you state.
    Felter Echerie
    Profit Prophets
    #198 - 2015-04-05 19:10:04 UTC
    i REALLY want it to be june.
    Dracvlad
    Taishi Combine
    Astral Alliance
    #199 - 2015-04-05 19:23:55 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
    Well that quote of CCP Falcon does make me chuckle, all the people who sprout HTFU all the time have no idea just how much easier it is to be caught doing PvE in null,
    *Snip* Please refrain from discussing forum moderation. ISD Ezwal.

    Some of these changes make sense and I agree with them, but the overall effect is to make it damn difficult to operate:

    1. Differing warp speeds, great makes sense and all that but made it more difficult to get away.
    2. Removal of the range of heavy missiles making kiting more difficult
    3. Making Interceptors immune to bubbles, I like it for other reasons but as a solo player it changes what you can use
    4. D-scan immunity to Combat Recons that removed a very important tool for those operating sole against small gangs hunting them
    5. Change to WH spawning so you cannot pre-scan
    6. Making Mining sites open to all to warp to without scanning down

    Another important factor is that as the Eve population has got more skilled every man and his dog has a BLOP's and a cloaky AFK alt.


    When I first went to null I operated in a drake in Stain in a contested system, I was difficult to catch as I used certain strategies, those strategies no longer work. For those operating in 0.0 as solo or small groups Eve has become harder and darker, yet for those that hunt, their life has become easier and yet still they moan and ask for local to be delayed. CCP Falcon you have made it easier and easier for people to get their blowing up fix, that harsh world only exists in your imagination, here PS kids have your fast fix, its a real shame that you did this even if a number of those changes I agree with, its the impact they have had.

    Now you want to remove local or delay local, I have to ask are these people so damn useless as it is now to catch people?

    EDIT: My conclusion did not post so here it is:

    So the result of this is simple, I will go back to null sec when this change occurs, I will take sov and I will get some fun PvP, but I will go in light and my objective will be for PvP and perhaps to use some of the resources there. I expect to get rolled over easily but hope that CCP give me the tools like a fall back structure that cannot be probed.

    And if you do take local away, please for the love of god get rid of all that other free intel, like people in systems, cyno's, NPC's killed etc., just remove it all so people have to go looking for people to kill at least, because surprise surprise when they moan about the free intel of local they never mention those free intel tools and that is because it makes it easier for them!

    When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

    Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

    Alavaria Fera
    GoonWaffe
    #200 - 2015-04-05 19:24:43 UTC
    Tipa Riot wrote:
    Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
  • Bored defenders
  • Or excited people getting more fights in small gangs with some meaning for the alliance Blink

    If you're giving the defenders fights they're enjoying you probably should be attacking them in a different way to make sure that doesn't happen.

    Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?