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Nerfing energy transfer and infinite cap creation
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Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#61 - 2015-04-01 18:02:31 UTC
Soldarius wrote:
Kazaheid Zaknafein wrote:
If cap transfers become capable of offensive abilities, make cap batteries act as a counter.
Make the cap transfers only cause heat on the target if the transfer puts the battery at over 100%. By stacking cap batteries you can make a fleet harder to overcharge, nuet and vampire.


They already do, m8.

Medium Cap Battery II:
Capacitor +420.
EnergyLeechReflectAmount: -20%
NeutralizerReflectAmount: -10%

gg




420 is not even 2 large transfer. If the enemy want to overload you, you're better off with shield boosters to burn as much cap as you can FAST but even that does not help all that much.
FireFrenzy
Cynosural Samurai
#62 - 2015-04-02 06:07:27 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
FireFrenzy wrote:
WUT?

JUST WUT?

Okay this is potentially the single worst thought out logic i have ever seen... For example you are nerfing alot more then just "NERF LOGI MAKE GUDFIT" (a horribly naive thought in general btw) especially since you arent touching the cap stable boats (oneiros and scimitar) which near as i can tell are used more anyways...

Also Spidertanking is AWESOME... Get 5-10 guys in spider tanking geddons, fight 20-30 t3s with logi and LAUGH while their >>500m spaceboats get roflstomped by your 230 million disposable spaceboats...


The cap stable Logiboats are sceptible to neuting. The cap chaining ones aren't.

Note: the well made points above are quite correct: cap transfers causing heat would be a Bad Thing™ Oops


i have neuted out so many guardians... add 2 large neuts to a guardian, have your buddy neut his buddy... GG game over your logi is neuted dry... ECM is another great option there...

My corp broke so many logi chains with our spider geddon/domi/scorp docterine.. And then we KILLED ALL THE THINGS
Tabyll Altol
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#63 - 2015-04-02 09:10:06 UTC
Cartheron Crust wrote:
Ok now that I have your attention with the nerf word.

Generally speaking anything you can do permanently with little to no effort in game is boring and bad/flawed game mechanics. Apply this to this the importance of capacitor in the game and the permanently creating more of it from sturdy and resilient platforms (Carriers and Logistics ships) and it seems this is a bad mechanic.

The fact that Cap chains are so resilient against their direct counter (energy neutralizers) make this problem even worse. How to fix this?

Straight up nerfing the bonus's seems a little harsh or hard limiting the number of transfers to be fitted to a ship (like in the AT) seems to be artificially limiting in a sandbox game. So perhaps a new mechanic.

Make energy transfers always generate heat. Now hold your horses, don't get all up in arms yet logi bro's. Lets look at a specific example. As it is a pilot with Thermodynamics V in a two large energy transfer Guardian (for arguments sake lets take an all meta IV high slot guardian) can heat both of them simultaneously for 4mins37s.

Now the heat damage and emission stat can be lowered some (if it seems a little harsh atm), maybe even straight up halfing those stats. With the option still there for overheating as normal.

What does this do? It still allows cap chaining but adds actual skill in managing your heat instead of just "fire and forgetting" the chain if you will. Now an all V logi is stable with just one incoming transfer anyway so this already helps the heat factor as the same Guardian pilot as above can currently heat just one Energy Transfer for just shy of 7 minutes. So they can alternate between the two to limit the heat generated. Obviously each can be repaired with paste when not active also, the mods can be refit off carrier or Nestor now also if they burn.

This would add more module interaction, opportunities for mistakes to be exploited and more decisions. Always better than "fire and forget" mechanics.


So everybody would switch to the logi variant which doesn´t need a cap buddy. And what would improve the game so much ?

You could nerv the energy transphere so strong that you could not create energy but in the same time you have to lower the activation energy need for the repairer so in the end you would have two oneiroses. If you don´t do this you can dock you guardian and leave it in a station without any use.

So i can´t see an improvement for the game.

-1
Jack Hayson
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#64 - 2015-04-02 10:46:59 UTC
Dafuq is this?
The entire point of capchaining is that it makes you more resilient against neuting.
It doesn't make you immune. (I fly logistics almost exclusively and I've seen a lot of capchains getting broken up by too much neut+ewar pressure)
Faren Shalni
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#65 - 2015-04-02 17:09:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Faren Shalni
Have you tried actually staggering your neuts every 5 seconds to neut off the cap they get from an et rather than pushing f1 through to F7 and expecting it to work.

cap chaining is not a fire and forget which goes to show how little you know about flying cap chain logi. You have to manage your chain adjusting for DC's, Deaths, new logi, Logi 4 pilots, People warping from off grid, People getting jammed, neuted, damped or even tackled and falling out of range etc. etc. etc.

Your claim that there are only two fits is hilarious. 4/2, 5/1, 3/3, Passive tanked, active hardeners, 800 plate, 1600 plate, Nano, dual prop, 0/6, the list goes on. there are endless ways to fit a guardian or basi. true there are a few popular fits that work well but they are more general fits that can be tweaked to suit the need.

So no this is not needed as there is no OP aspect to cap chaining what is OP is the pilots who have learned how to manage its and maintain it. So I guess nerf players is what you want

So Much Space
DarkCloud Cesaille
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#66 - 2015-04-02 17:35:40 UTC
Faren Shalni wrote:
Have you tried actually staggering your neuts every 5 seconds to neut off the cap they get from an et rather than pushing f1 through to F7 and expecting it to work.

cap chaining is not a fire and forget which goes to show how little you know about flying cap chain logi. You have to manage your chain adjusting for DC's, Deaths, new logi, Logi 4 pilots, People warping from off grid, People getting jammed, neuted, damped or even tackled and falling out of range etc. etc. etc.

Your claim that there are only two fits is hilarious. 4/2, 5/1, 3/3, Passive tanked, active hardeners, 800 plate, 1600 plate, Nano, dual prop, 0/6, the list goes on. there are endless ways to fit a guardian or basi. true there are a few popular fits that work well but they are more general fits that can be tweaked to suit the need.

So no this is not needed as there is no OP aspect to cap chaining what is OP is the pilots who have learned how to manage its and maintain it. So I guess nerf players is what you want



New rule, all corps with good fleets must cut off their dominant hand. Regardless if any of the comp is OP or not, if you're fleet is extremely successful just cut off all the pilots dominant hand.

Boom player nerf