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Human interaction, newbie retention and "emptiness" of highsec space
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Camios
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2011-12-03 19:12:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Camios
It has been said many times that human interaction is the key to make people subscribe. But what kind of interaction can a newbie have in this game?
There can be 2 kinds of human interaction. They can either chat with other player, or fly with/fight against them. Of course playing together is better, you can see the ship (or avatar) of the other player in the space around you, and while chatting you have the feeling that he is right there. That is, while local chat is a good thing for human interaction, flying together is better.

This is what actually happens in the asteroid belts. You are a newbie, you go around the belts, you see a mining barge, don't know anything about it, you are curious and you can actually talk to its captain, and he will tell you things that will make ou dream of you future in EVE; you can socialize, he might even invite you into a corporation.
But most of the people in empire run missions, and newbies cannot really interact with them.Newbies can't fly with mission runners unless the mission runner invites them into a fleet.

This does not feel right. Empire should be all about human interaction, and human interaction is flying together or fighting eachother. Instead, space could feel unpopulated and unappealing for a newbie, even if there are 40 people in local, because he will never be able to fly with all those mission runners, while a miner in the belts might just be "not in the mood", and others can be docked and afk. Actually space feels quite empty until one learns how to probe out things.
I think that this is an issue that needs to be addressed.

Summing it up:


  • Newbies can perceive empire space like is empty and there is nothing to do for them because it's difficult for them to interact with older players
  • Chat systems are just a palliative, flying together and having a visual contact with the other player's ship is much better
  • Most active player in empire run missions and are thus unreachable by newbies
  • For newbies, estabilishing a contact to older player would be really good


My suggestion are, just to make an example:

  • Every mission dungeon (in highsec) should be visible on the overview like factional warfare dungeons, or
  • Easy to find with the onboard scanner (only in highsec) like anomalies, but the first tutorial mission should talk about the onboard scanner.


I'm perfectly aware that this would make things easy for the ninja salvager, but I don't see this as a problem.
grazer gin
Raving Rednecks
#2 - 2011-12-03 21:35:34 UTC
Posting in a stealth ninja salvager whine thread
Thredd Necro
Doomheim
#3 - 2011-12-03 22:16:54 UTC
Space IS mostly empty you know...even nullbear tears can't possibly fill it up...Bear

He attacked everything in life with a mix of extraordinary genius and naive incompetence, and it was often difficult to tell which was which. - Douglas Adams
Velicitia
XS Tech
#4 - 2011-12-03 22:44:43 UTC
Douglas Adams wrote:

Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind- bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space.


/thread

Cool

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Camios
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2011-12-03 23:35:12 UTC
If you are urged to comment on a thread, please read the OP and try to troll not so obviously


  1. I like ninja salvagers; I think that it should be easier to find mission runners in highsec, but this has nothing to do with ninja salvaging. You were misguided, try to read again.
  2. I know space is physically almost empty, of course, and you don't need a degree to read on wikipedia about the orders of magnitude of interstellar gas densities. I'm talking about human interaction, and it's pretty important since we're talking about an MMO and not about your favorite space documentary.


The point is that space may look empty of people and lifeless for a newbie, and a newbie should be able to interact and fly with anyone he likes and he is liked by.

I hope you acknowledge there is a possible problem about socialization and involvement in the game; it is pretty evident that for some people EVE is hard because they could not find a proper corporation or a suitable company to enjoy his game. And why? Possibly because the mechanics are hiding the "expert" player from the newbies?

I have exposed here a problem, an opinion, and a way to intervene on the situation. If you agree on the problem but not on the solution, let's discuss about this. If you don't think this is a real problem, well I hope you found my point to be at least worth a tought.

Velicitia
XS Tech
#6 - 2011-12-04 00:04:30 UTC
Yes, I agree that there needs to be a way to make it easier to interact with people ... but it's hard in this game where within weeks, you pretty much learn to not talk in local ...

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
grazer gin
Raving Rednecks
#7 - 2011-12-04 13:14:54 UTC
Camios wrote:
If you are urged to comment on a thread, please read the OP and try to troll not so obviously


  1. I like ninja salvagers; I think that it should be easier to find mission runners in highsec, but this has nothing to do with ninja salvaging. You were misguided, try to read again.
  2. I know space is physically almost empty, of course, and you don't need a degree to read on wikipedia about the orders of magnitude of interstellar gas densities. I'm talking about human interaction, and it's pretty important since we're talking about an MMO and not about your favorite space documentary.


The point is that space may look empty of people and lifeless for a newbie, and a newbie should be able to interact and fly with anyone he likes and he is liked by.

I hope you acknowledge there is a possible problem about socialization and involvement in the game; it is pretty evident that for some people EVE is hard because they could not find a proper corporation or a suitable company to enjoy his game. And why? Possibly because the mechanics are hiding the "expert" player from the newbies?

I have exposed here a problem, an opinion, and a way to intervene on the situation. If you agree on the problem but not on the solution, let's discuss about this. If you don't think this is a real problem, well I hope you found my point to be at least worth a tought.



Obvious troll/whine is obvious try better wording next time 2/10
Camios
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2011-12-04 18:59:27 UTC
Velicitia wrote:
Yes, I agree that there needs to be a way to make it easier to interact with people ... but it's hard in this game where within weeks, you pretty much learn to not talk in local ...


It depends, you don't type in local when you are part of a self sufficient group. When a new pilot is looking for advice or just exploring the world in highsec, that's a different situation.

Xien Anh
Xezan Federation
#9 - 2011-12-04 19:17:32 UTC
Local chat is great when the subject is Bacon.

Only a ginger can call a ginger a ginger!
Krios Ahzek
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#10 - 2011-12-04 19:28:39 UTC
There should be some kind of general chat channel

 Though All Men Do Despise Us
Velicitia
XS Tech
#11 - 2011-12-04 21:51:23 UTC
Camios wrote:
Velicitia wrote:
Yes, I agree that there needs to be a way to make it easier to interact with people ... but it's hard in this game where within weeks, you pretty much learn to not talk in local ...


It depends, you don't type in local when you are part of a self sufficient group. When a new pilot is looking for advice or just exploring the world in highsec, that's a different situation.




and *WE* all know local is full of scammers and "newbs" looking for easy targets. That's the problem.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Iosif Dzughasvilli
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#12 - 2011-12-05 08:32:54 UTC
I'm a relatively new player and I agree with this thread. While you may meet some nice people it is extremely difficult to actively engage with most of the EVE community as a new player.

EVE needs better low-level, socialized mission integration. Not to compare EVE to a terrible MMO, but WoW has got this going in the right direction with the dungeon finder. If there is missions that need you fleet up for increased ISK and item rewards it will do a much better of job of integrating the player base while also giving a benefit to those players who choose to work together. A UI option or moderated channel such as "Looking for Group" or even an option after accepting a mission to automatically queue for a fleet once enough players are ready would do the trick.

Understandably, loot will be a difficult thing to distribute fairly, but then again, when has CCP ever interfered with player interaction, particularly scams.

At any rate, some of the problems I can see arising from this is:
Pirates making an alt and ganking new players, for the 'lulz'. This can be effectively combated by having a basic three strikes rule, if your account attacks/destroys a fleet member at a mission location, one strike, two strikes and then the third strike they're banned from fleeted missions.

Not enough new players. By having a Looking for Group option you would have to severely limit the number of missions available to ensure you're not sitting around doing nothing. Alternatively having more localized start areas would be ideal to a system like this. It would also be good to having a single start area and one connecting system for the first few. This way you can learn the basics in the first system and receive your ship, start doing solo missions in the second system and so on. It would impractical to make these mandatory however as players creating alt accounts would be un-thrilled by having to play the same tutorial over and over.

At any rate, this is just an idea I was having after talking to a friend who plays WoW and told me about the Raid Finder they've just created.


Intar Medris
KarmaFleet University
#13 - 2011-12-05 10:49:20 UTC
You want empty. Try freaking null sec. Even in Alliances that number in the thosands you hardly ever see anyone.

I try to be nice and mind my business just shooting lasers at rocks. There is just way too many asshats in New Eden for that to happen.
Ya Huei
Imperial Collective
#14 - 2011-12-05 14:50:15 UTC
Get out of your NPC corp.
Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#15 - 2011-12-05 17:00:33 UTC
I am compelled to disagree with this thread in its entirety.

The primary source of my game activity involves interacting with total strangers who may or may not be members of my corporation, aliance, or coalition. While it is true that I have been playing EVE for several years, the same cannot be said of the overwhelming majority of those persons with whom I interact. A lot of them are just a day or two, or perhaps a couple of weeks, into figuring out the game. One does not need to know the game well at all to find oneself joining a large and influential group of people eager to throw billions of ISK worth of liquid currency, ships and skillbooks at one's newbie education. What one requires for that is personal motivation and independent research, though belonging to certain out of game communities can also be a boon.

The major gripe that I see here, if I am to take this thread on face value, is that EVE Online does not spoon feed the newbie experience to people or provide a linear framework of "progression" towards clearly defined goals in the way that guild-based games such as EverQuest and World of Warcraft. I see no inherent problem in that. Just as the more charismatic, motivated, outgoing and research oriented people in those games are more likely to find themselves in top-end guilds owing to their personal qualities, so, too, are similarly qualified people likely in EVE Online to find themselves in positive and supportive environments with which to interact with other players and enjoy the game with no worry for the purse strings.

It is almost as though being a charismatic, motivated, outgoing and research oriented person gives one social advantages. Attention

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn
Krios Ahzek
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#16 - 2011-12-05 17:29:59 UTC
I'm convinced, here's my security deposit and full API

 Though All Men Do Despise Us
Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#17 - 2011-12-05 21:13:03 UTC
Krios Ahzek wrote:
I'm convinced, here's my security deposit and full API

I can't be arsed to log into EVE.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn
Krios Ahzek
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#18 - 2011-12-05 21:56:52 UTC
He had everything a boy could want
Except the one thing he wanted the most
Friends.

 Though All Men Do Despise Us
Thredd Necro
Doomheim
#19 - 2011-12-05 22:26:33 UTC
Velicitia wrote:
Douglas Adams wrote:

Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind- bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space.


/thread

Cool


This.

He attacked everything in life with a mix of extraordinary genius and naive incompetence, and it was often difficult to tell which was which. - Douglas Adams
Krios Ahzek
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#20 - 2011-12-05 22:34:30 UTC
Thredd Necro wrote:
Velicitia wrote:
Douglas Adams wrote:

Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind- bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space.


/thread

Cool


This.


There is only one force in the universe that possesses the ability of Thread Ending: moderators.

Velicitia is not one. Hence, the thread can continue.

 Though All Men Do Despise Us
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