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As Long As Grid Fu Exists, we're being duped.
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Maeliki Sullanniel
Nox Draconum Holding Corp
#41 - 2015-03-26 15:23:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Maeliki Sullanniel
Eve Solecist wrote:
...

Also... I look soooooo achuran, but still like myself. ^_^


*\o/* Yay! for looking Achuran! Big smile

Boo! for Grid-Fu!
Serene Repose
#42 - 2015-03-26 15:26:24 UTC
Primary This Rifter wrote:
How exactly would you have the server partition grids?
Uncharted Waters, an NES game with a map depicting all of Earth, the whole globe, has to break that map into loadable sections (considering how big Earth is). With a game that primitive they didn't seem to require a system that is exploitable, or one that can be reformed and reshaped by the player. Are you saying ten years later in technology (when EVE was born) something about the advancement of technology forced us to revert to something more primitive than an NES game? I think not. Nice try. This methodology was known years before EVE was developed.

We must accommodate the idiocracy.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#43 - 2015-03-26 15:31:49 UTC
Sibyyl wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Should the capability for a player (or group of players) to manipulate the boundaries of the grid within the game mechanics due simply to understanding obscure properties of the game engine that are not easily discovered and used by the player base as a whole (and grants an distinct advantage) be completely reworked?
Yeah, it really should be.

This is a great example of one of those things that CCP is firmly trying to eradicate.


You mean.. like Hyperdunking? CCP is not firmly patterned to do anything.


Quote:
Players should succeed through superior use of known mechanics, not though superior knowledge of game related trivia and technical limitations.


Players should succeed through research, risk, and intelligence. Grid fu fits perfectly within the EVE sphere.

You should probably look at CCP's recent STRONG emphasis on making game mechanics more transparent before you use that argument.
They want players competing on a level where skill matters, not your ability to find flaws in obscure game mechanics.
To this end contrived and non-intuitive game mechanics just like this one are being systematically eliminated from the game.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Vyl Vit
#44 - 2015-03-26 15:35:14 UTC
Hengle Teron wrote:
Serene Repose wrote:
Hengle Teron wrote:
bonkerss wrote:
we unintentionally gridfued the other night while dropping a can at a "wrong" spot. resulting in the loss of the entire fleet because we warped on our ping at 10 but we were like maybe a couple k off the other grid. unfortunately the people in the other grid could see us and we got locked and killed by stuff we could neither see nor lock on our grid.

so basically you can set the grid up so that one side can see the other but the other side is not aware that a whole fleet is on top of them. also funny is the doctor bubbled us and we couldn't warp even tough the bubble was not visible on our grid.

if you think this is smart use of game mechanic then im not really sure whats wrong with you:) this awfully looks like a horrible exploit. at least ccp reimbursed the whole fleet. but this tactic can easily be abused and people probably do it on a daily basis.

so **** gridfu and make it a bannable offense

cool story bro

Oh look. We have erudite among us!

Oh I'm sorry, did you want to say anything before my Brutor smashing club reaches your head ?
Find a Brutor and smash it?

Paradise is like where you are right now, only much, much better.
Serene Repose
#45 - 2015-03-26 15:38:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Serene Repose
Hengle Teron wrote:
Serene Repose wrote:
Hengle Teron wrote:
bonkerss wrote:
we unintentionally gridfued the other night while dropping a can at a "wrong" spot. resulting in the loss of the entire fleet because we warped on our ping at 10 but we were like maybe a couple k off the other grid. unfortunately the people in the other grid could see us and we got locked and killed by stuff we could neither see nor lock on our grid.

so basically you can set the grid up so that one side can see the other but the other side is not aware that a whole fleet is on top of them. also funny is the doctor bubbled us and we couldn't warp even tough the bubble was not visible on our grid.

if you think this is smart use of game mechanic then im not really sure whats wrong with you:) this awfully looks like a horrible exploit. at least ccp reimbursed the whole fleet. but this tactic can easily be abused and people probably do it on a daily basis.

so **** gridfu and make it a bannable offense

cool story bro

Oh look. We have erudite among us!

Oh I'm sorry, did you want to say anything before my Brutor smashing club reaches your head ?
Look! It's trying to be fearsome and scary and stuff! WoooOOOOooOOOOooOOOOoooo.
I'm skeered. Ain't you guys skeered?

HEY SPIKE, WHADDYA LIKE?

We must accommodate the idiocracy.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#46 - 2015-03-26 15:38:57 UTC
Vyl Vit wrote:
Hengle Teron wrote:
Serene Repose wrote:
Hengle Teron wrote:
bonkerss wrote:
we unintentionally gridfued the other night while dropping a can at a "wrong" spot. resulting in the loss of the entire fleet because we warped on our ping at 10 but we were like maybe a couple k off the other grid. unfortunately the people in the other grid could see us and we got locked and killed by stuff we could neither see nor lock on our grid.

so basically you can set the grid up so that one side can see the other but the other side is not aware that a whole fleet is on top of them. also funny is the doctor bubbled us and we couldn't warp even tough the bubble was not visible on our grid.

if you think this is smart use of game mechanic then im not really sure whats wrong with you:) this awfully looks like a horrible exploit. at least ccp reimbursed the whole fleet. but this tactic can easily be abused and people probably do it on a daily basis.

so **** gridfu and make it a bannable offense

cool story bro

Oh look. We have erudite among us!

Oh I'm sorry, did you want to say anything before my Brutor smashing club reaches your head ?
Find a Brutor and smash it?

haha, grammarLol

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#47 - 2015-03-26 15:49:27 UTC
Well, on the bright side I seem to remember references to necessary changes that may have to happen to grid mechanics as we get into structures we can deploy anywhere.

Heck, they were looking strongly into new mechanics along this line when they were exploring moving celestial bodies, such as orbiting planets/moons/stations or comets moving about a system.

Progress was made then, and this was a while ago. With any luck the options being discussed for new structures and their placement means that some advancement has been made along this line.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Pok Nibin
Doomheim
#48 - 2015-03-26 16:08:03 UTC
I can see some folks growing reliant on such things as these suddenly having to suck air through their a$$hole$ trying to figure out another way to play. That's a thing about cheating. And, when you do it, you know that's what it is, so don't try some schoolkid argument about "no it ain't, nannner nanner."

It's just not a good idea to succumb to the fashionable idea that if you don't get caught it's alright.

The right to free speech doesn't automatically carry with it the right to be taken seriously.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#49 - 2015-03-26 16:22:28 UTC
malcovas Henderson wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:


My wife just had our second child(literally yesterday), so while I'm a tad busy, now that she's finally not having a high risk pregnancy (and the thrice weekly doctor visits that entailed), my schedule should free up quite a bit in the near future.


Congratulation to you and your wife dude. All the best wishes to both of you. Now I am expecting Young Kaarous to be flying a cata vsoon.


Stay tuned...

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#50 - 2015-03-26 16:26:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Remiel Pollard
Pok Nibin wrote:
I can see some folks growing reliant on such things as these suddenly having to suck air through their a$$hole$ trying to figure out another way to play. That's a thing about cheating. And, when you do it, you know that's what it is, so don't try some schoolkid argument about "no it ain't, nannner nanner."

It's just not a good idea to succumb to the fashionable idea that if you don't get caught it's alright.


No one's cheating though, and it's not a 'schoolkid' argument, it's not an exploit and CCP have said as much. Anyone getting 'caught' doing it won't even get a slap on the wrist.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Vyl Vit
#51 - 2015-03-26 16:27:34 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Pok Nibin wrote:
I can see some folks growing reliant on such things as these suddenly having to suck air through their a$$hole$ trying to figure out another way to play. That's a thing about cheating. And, when you do it, you know that's what it is, so don't try some schoolkid argument about "no it ain't, nannner nanner."

It's just not a good idea to succumb to the fashionable idea that if you don't get caught it's alright.


No one's cheating though, and it's not a 'schoolkid' argument, it's not an exploit and CCP have said as much.
Was he talking about just this?

Paradise is like where you are right now, only much, much better.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#52 - 2015-03-26 16:28:42 UTC
Vyl Vit wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Pok Nibin wrote:
I can see some folks growing reliant on such things as these suddenly having to suck air through their a$$hole$ trying to figure out another way to play. That's a thing about cheating. And, when you do it, you know that's what it is, so don't try some schoolkid argument about "no it ain't, nannner nanner."

It's just not a good idea to succumb to the fashionable idea that if you don't get caught it's alright.


No one's cheating though, and it's not a 'schoolkid' argument, it's not an exploit and CCP have said as much.
Was he talking about just this?


This thread is about grid-fu. If he's talking about something else, he should specify, and probably talk about it somewhere else.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Pok Nibin
Doomheim
#53 - 2015-03-26 16:33:50 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Pok Nibin wrote:
I can see some folks growing reliant on such things as these suddenly having to suck air through their a$$hole$ trying to figure out another way to play. That's a thing about cheating. And, when you do it, you know that's what it is, so don't try some schoolkid argument about "no it ain't, nannner nanner."

It's just not a good idea to succumb to the fashionable idea that if you don't get caught it's alright.


No one's cheating though, and it's not a 'schoolkid' argument, it's not an exploit and CCP have said as much. Anyone getting 'caught' doing it won't even get a slap on the wrist.
You had to try anyway. I know. Blink

The right to free speech doesn't automatically carry with it the right to be taken seriously.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#54 - 2015-03-26 16:37:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Remiel Pollard
Pok Nibin wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Pok Nibin wrote:
I can see some folks growing reliant on such things as these suddenly having to suck air through their a$$hole$ trying to figure out another way to play. That's a thing about cheating. And, when you do it, you know that's what it is, so don't try some schoolkid argument about "no it ain't, nannner nanner."

It's just not a good idea to succumb to the fashionable idea that if you don't get caught it's alright.


No one's cheating though, and it's not a 'schoolkid' argument, it's not an exploit and CCP have said as much. Anyone getting 'caught' doing it won't even get a slap on the wrist.
You had to try anyway. I know. Blink


It's not trying, it's facts. I'm telling you facts, and the fact is, it's not an exploit. And your reply in typical flat-earther fashion is dismissal a la ignorance. From the article linked:

"This whole process is quite complex but not an exploit of game mechanics."

Most reasonable people would go, "oh look, facts to the contrary of what I believed previously, I should concede that I'm wrong and adapt to this new information." Let's see if you have the maturity to pull that one off instead of reverting to the ironic immaturity of accusing people of being children because they don't play the game in the way you say/think they should.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Eve Solecist
Shitt Outta Luck - GANKING4GOOD
#55 - 2015-03-26 16:56:45 UTC
Dunning Kruger, ladies and gentlemen.

Ignorance about Ignorance.


It must be cheating, because I say it's cheating,
disregarding the actual definition of cheating.

I'm too tired for this. simple people who should not have a voice.

Serene, at this point I believe that people who deliberate make the stupid come out,
are in fact bad and sad people who need something to feel better about.
  • All incoming connection attempts are being blocked. If you want to speak to me you will find me either in Hek local, you can create a contract or make a thread about it in General Discussions. I will call you back. -
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#56 - 2015-03-26 17:17:47 UTC  |  Edited by: March rabbit
Agondray wrote:
yeah as one that used to incap pos mods all day in a solo battleship I used to abuse the gun range, and I would pod people in low sec from extreme range, then ccp changed that I guess they finally considered it an exploit to out fire the gun range at gates and pos's. Now the stupid things fire at anything that can be seen.
no matter how many sebo's I put on a ship can only target 249.99kms which doesn't even allow me to do a strike and play gridfu if I tried.

EVERYTHING IS A GAME MACHANIC UNTIL CCP DECIDES OTHERWISE

Maybe you could take another approach? Shrink grid to make it as close to the target as possible. Then approach, fire, de-approach, leave grid. Could work with slow POS targeting system.

We used grid-fu to catch bot tengu in 0.0 back in 2011. Extended grid to 400km+ and put bubble. Then used login trap. Killed it once. Bot owner fitted next ship with interdiction nullifier subsystem.....

And i have seen the same tengu half a year after in different space/alliance/corp doing the same. CCP bot reporting works wonders! Roll


Eve Solecist wrote:
Dunning Kruger, ladies and gentlemen.

Ignorance about Ignorance.


It must be cheating, because I say it's cheating,
disregarding the actual definition of cheating.

you forgot to put Kaarous's quote here What?

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
EvilweaselFinance
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#57 - 2015-03-26 18:09:27 UTC
Serene Repose wrote:
Get a good list of the posters to this thread who "don't see a problem here". They are practitioners.
They may as well be saying, "The emperor does SO have clothes on! You just can't SEE them."

Anywhere else in the forum it's claimed you can't prove a negative. Right off the bat I'm told to. Uh huh.

I just came down with yesterday's rain. (Quite a few rapid responses for a "Nothing here. Move along.")

wow, that sure was a quick "i cannot be bothered to give any evidence for anything i suggest, i'm just going to insult everyone who doesn't agree with me and hope my large well of respect within the eve community carries the day"

sadly the Bank of Serene Repose's Respect has been overdrawn since before it even opened and never once has there even been a deposit
Commander Spurty
#58 - 2015-03-26 18:21:27 UTC
OP: Just because someone documented their findings, doesn't mean "it wasn't used by others". It certainly never started happening the day that document was published!!!

To be clearer, this document just allows you, the causal player to learn how to do things the more 'curious' player already knows (but doesn't publicize).

if CCP hasn't fixed it, it's not considered enough of an issue. I'm still not convinced it's a problem even after all these years


There are good ships,

And wood ships,

And ships that sail the sea

But the best ships are Spaceships

Built by CCP
Zura Namee
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#59 - 2015-03-26 18:36:44 UTC
Serene Repose wrote:
Primary This Rifter wrote:
How exactly would you have the server partition grids?
Uncharted Waters, an NES game with a map depicting all of Earth, the whole globe, has to break that map into loadable sections (considering how big Earth is). With a game that primitive they didn't seem to require a system that is exploitable, or one that can be reformed and reshaped by the player. Are you saying ten years later in technology (when EVE was born) something about the advancement of technology forced us to revert to something more primitive than an NES game? I think not. Nice try. This methodology was known years before EVE was developed.


Are you seriously implying a singleplayer game with load cells is remotely comparable to what EVE is doing?
Serene Repose
#60 - 2015-03-26 18:46:50 UTC
Zura Namee wrote:
Serene Repose wrote:
Primary This Rifter wrote:
How exactly would you have the server partition grids?
Uncharted Waters, an NES game with a map depicting all of Earth, the whole globe, has to break that map into loadable sections (considering how big Earth is). With a game that primitive they didn't seem to require a system that is exploitable, or one that can be reformed and reshaped by the player. Are you saying ten years later in technology (when EVE was born) something about the advancement of technology forced us to revert to something more primitive than an NES game? I think not. Nice try. This methodology was known years before EVE was developed.


Are you seriously implying a singleplayer game with load cells is remotely comparable to what EVE is doing?
Generalize much?

We must accommodate the idiocracy.