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Intergalactic Summit

 
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Intaki Liberation

Author
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome
Awesome Alliance
#101 - 2015-03-27 08:20:56 UTC  |  Edited by: IbanezLaney
Tyrel Toov wrote:
IbanezLaney wrote:



The only things that burn when Villore Accords are around are the Caldari Modules which are set to overheat.

If the modules are the only thing burning, then even set to overheat you still can't manage enough damage to make VA burn?


Hmm - I see what you did there.

I edited my post to undo your cleverness. lol
Nomistrav
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#102 - 2015-03-27 09:15:06 UTC
I'd like to make a declaration of refocusing - this topic is not at all about the Battle of Caldari Prime or who has the right to speak about what; we do not bear any more right to speak than someone else out of sheer belonging or descent. We are all entitled to a right to speak our minds and it is unfair to not allow the other to speak their case, even if it may be hyperbolic or even anecdotal...

Set aside the differences, if but a moment, so that we may consider the problem that is being brought to the table. I fear that stubbornness is getting in the way of reason and rationale once more over what is, in this light, superficial. This is not to devalue the lives lost on Caldari Prime (I was one of the combatants, trying to save friends on the ground) or any lives lost in this ongoing conflict that never seems to end... This is simply to draw attention to the fact that it is re-circulating back into the traditional differences of philosophy and opinion that ultimately never accomplish anything.

Let me be clear, nothing is ever going to be gained from the dialogue I am witnessing today. Perhaps my words will shed some enlightenment and perspective to change the flow of words, that we may accomplish something useful.

"As long as space endures,

as long as sentient beings exist,

until then, may I too remain

and dispel the miseries of the world."

~ Vremaja Idama

Astera Zandraki
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#103 - 2015-03-27 09:33:25 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Tristan Valentina wrote:
We burned Caldari Prime? Pretty sure a falling Caldari Navy Carrier did that. Could be wrong but pretty sure. That is why you don't fly capitals in a planets gravity well.

And didn't it get blown up for picking a fight with concord? Again might be wrong as all of that is second hand info.

Tristan

Yes. You are wrong.


Yea, She is.

The Carrier fell on Gallente Prime.

The Titan fell on Caldari Prime, because putting that thing in low orbit was a GREAT idea.

You know, when a leadership transition nearly results in the burning of an entire planet, dya ever thing there might be something wrong with your system? Even the Empire does it better, Tuulinen.

Bataav
Intaki Liberation Front
Intaki Prosperity Initiative
#104 - 2015-03-27 13:29:53 UTC
Nomistrav wrote:
Let me be clear, nothing is ever going to be gained from the dialogue I am witnessing today.

Oh I don't know.

The next time someone asks me why the people of Intaki might want to be independent of the Federation, I can point them to this discussion.

It serves as a concise example of what happens every time Intaki's place in New Eden is discussed.

Some within the Federation and State cannot help themselves but to fall back on the age-old habit of using Intaki as a tool to fight their opponents.

Voices of reason quickly become lost in the storm, and as the two sides argue with each other, Intaki itself becomes forgotten.

Independence would deny both sides their would-be weapon of choice. The CEWPA front lines would shift, allowing those intent on pursuing conflict to redeploy, and Intaki and her colonies might just have an opportunity to tred a path more peaceful.


Nomistrav
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#105 - 2015-03-27 14:05:49 UTC
Bataav wrote:
Nomistrav wrote:
Let me be clear, nothing is ever going to be gained from the dialogue I am witnessing today.

Oh I don't know.

The next time someone asks me why the people of Intaki might want to be independent of the Federation, I can point them to this discussion.

It serves as a concise example of what happens every time Intaki's place in New Eden is discussed.

Some within the Federation and State cannot help themselves but to fall back on the age-old habit of using Intaki as a tool to fight their opponents.

Voices of reason quickly become lost in the storm, and as the two sides argue with each other, Intaki itself becomes forgotten.

Independence would deny both sides their would-be weapon of choice. The CEWPA front lines would shift, allowing those intent on pursuing conflict to redeploy, and Intaki and her colonies might just have an opportunity to tred a path more peaceful.




One would expect that there is too much to be gained from leaving Intaki in the state that it is, in that case. I'll not delve into half-thought conspiracy theories but if there was any real momentum to have Intaki a more secure, peaceful province then we'd have already seen it happen.

"As long as space endures,

as long as sentient beings exist,

until then, may I too remain

and dispel the miseries of the world."

~ Vremaja Idama

Rinai Vero
Moira.
Villore Accords
#106 - 2015-03-27 15:01:14 UTC
Bataav wrote:
Nomistrav wrote:
Let me be clear, nothing is ever going to be gained from the dialogue I am witnessing today.

Oh I don't know.

The next time someone asks me why the people of Intaki might want to be independent of the Federation, I can point them to this discussion.

It serves as a concise example of what happens every time Intaki's place in New Eden is discussed.





So, in other words: discussion of Intaki is just like every other subject on the IGS?
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#107 - 2015-03-27 16:15:16 UTC
Astera Zandraki wrote:
Yea, She is.

The Carrier fell on Gallente Prime.

The Titan fell on Caldari Prime, because putting that thing in low orbit was a GREAT idea.

You know, when a leadership transition nearly results in the burning of an entire planet, dya ever thing there might be something wrong with your system? Even the Empire does it better, Tuulinen.


Talking of leadership transitions requiring dropping a titan on an inhabited world, can we remember that Tibus Heth did NOT drop the titan on Caldari Prime and neither did he cause it to be dropped. The thing had been there quite safely for many years without incident until, in an election year, Roden launched Operation Highlander.

We both know that Shiigeru would NEVER have fired on the surface of Caldari Prime - it would have been a sacrilege unthinkable and even Heth's hand-picked woman gave her life rather than commit it.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#108 - 2015-03-27 16:17:32 UTC
Bataav wrote:
Independence would deny both sides their would-be weapon of choice. The CEWPA front lines would shift, allowing those intent on pursuing conflict to redeploy, and Intaki and her colonies might just have an opportunity to tred a path more peaceful.


This phase of the conversation has NOTHING to do with Intaki and everything to do with revisionist idiots who like to blame the mistakes of their government on the victims of it.

But, yes, the sorts of people you describe DO exist. Don't allow them to make your homeworld a point of contention in this centuries old struggle. Opt for independence and be free of it forever - who knows, perhaps I'll buy some real estate and join you.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Tyrel Toov
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#109 - 2015-03-27 16:49:14 UTC
IbanezLaney wrote:
Tyrel Toov wrote:
IbanezLaney wrote:



The only things that burn when Villore Accords are around are the Caldari Modules which are set to overheat.

If the modules are the only thing burning, then even set to overheat you still can't manage enough damage to make VA burn?


Hmm - I see what you did there.

I edited my post to undo your cleverness. lol

Awwww, that's cheating.

I want to paint my ship Periwinkle.

Katrina Oniseki
Oniseki-Raata Internal Watch
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#110 - 2015-03-27 16:57:31 UTC
Hi guys, what's going on in thi-- oh. Nevermind

Katrina Oniseki

Rinai Vero
Moira.
Villore Accords
#111 - 2015-03-27 17:03:32 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Bataav wrote:
Independence would deny both sides their would-be weapon of choice. The CEWPA front lines would shift, allowing those intent on pursuing conflict to redeploy, and Intaki and her colonies might just have an opportunity to tred a path more peaceful.


This phase of the conversation has NOTHING to do with Intaki and everything to do with revisionist idiots who like to blame the mistakes of their government on the victims of it.

But, yes, the sorts of people you describe DO exist. Don't allow them to make your homeworld a point of contention in this centuries old struggle. Opt for independence and be free of it forever - who knows, perhaps I'll buy some real estate and join you.


First mention of Caldari Prime in this thread: Post #19 by Jukko Riis, Caldari Loyalist. First person to mention planetary Bombardment? Jukko Riis (#73) again, then (#76) you. Dailar Toralen decided to directly accuse (#84) Villore Accords of bombarding the planet ourselves! At which point (#90) you chimed in to accuse the Federation of "burning our homeworld" twice.

Sorry, Pieter: disagreeing with you isn't "revisionist." You don't get to write the history of a day I lived through no matter how arrogant you are.

Yet again, we see in this discussion the mewling ever present whine of Caldari victimhood reaching its full pitch.
Tyrel Toov
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#112 - 2015-03-27 17:15:13 UTC
Katrina Oniseki wrote:
Hi guys, what's going on in thi-- oh. Nevermind

Stay awhile, and listen. You'll regre-.... errrrr won't regret it.

I want to paint my ship Periwinkle.

Bourbon Limoges
Doomheim
#113 - 2015-03-27 17:34:48 UTC
It seems almost trivial to manipulate Caldari blowhards into making discussions about topics potentially inconvenient to the Federation instead all about Caldari blowhards. Although open mockery might risk reversing our good fortune, I suspect that it will instead result in Caldari blowingharder. Let's call it a "sociological experiment."
Jev North
Doomheim
#114 - 2015-03-27 17:39:50 UTC
It's like I left only yesterday. This conversation mirrors ones I saw two years ago, or six, for that matter, down to the comma.

Even though our love is cruel; even though our stars are crossed.

Noden Vorpalstar
The Knights of Polaris
#115 - 2015-03-27 17:40:35 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
This phase of the conversation has NOTHING to do with Intaki and everything to do with revisionist idiots who like to blame the mistakes of their government on the victims of it.


The only revisionists I'm seeing are those loyalists of the State afraid to be confronted with the truth about both the illegal and idiotic actions conducted by the State which led to that mass casualty disaster.

The crew of the Shiigeru had an unfortunate posting. As should be expected they did their duty. The Titan itself, however, was a legal military target and it's destruction is completely justified.

Public Channel:  Polaris-Public Roleplaying Channel:  Gallente Lounge

Liam Antolliere
Liberty Vanguard
#116 - 2015-03-27 17:45:21 UTC
Monsieur Tuulinen,


For a man who clearly states that he deals only with facts, particularly in reference to the late Admiral Noir and the Malkalen Disaster, you seem quick to insinuate opinion when it defends your argument.

I don't know whether or not the Shiigeru would have fired upon Caldari Prime. What I do know is that it was ordered to, by Tibus Heth. I also know that the Admiral who refused the order paid with her life, something reserved for treason or military gross neglect in most societies.

Those are the facts and nothing more.

Now, can we please return to the discussion at hand or cease discussion altogether? This is not about Caldari, this is not about Gallente - it is about the Intaki and they deserve more than us bickering back and forth over the same tired arguments.

"Though the people may hate me, that does not relieve me of my charge."

Nomistrav
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#117 - 2015-03-27 17:49:14 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Bataav wrote:
Independence would deny both sides their would-be weapon of choice. The CEWPA front lines would shift, allowing those intent on pursuing conflict to redeploy, and Intaki and her colonies might just have an opportunity to tred a path more peaceful.


This phase of the conversation has NOTHING to do with Intaki and everything to do with revisionist idiots who like to blame the mistakes of their government on the victims of it.



Not unlike a man who would simply dam off the river to keep the fish from swimming upstream. Denying the birthright of the conversation topic at hand (even in title) for the sake of continuing an argument with a granite wall, expecting it to give way while also refusing personal compromise. Worse yet, over an event that has already transpired, in vain of those who had suffered it's transgressions.

Anger betrays rationality and is therefore... unreliable. Anger as a means of expressing a premise is designed not to change the views of the person but to criticize. Ultimately what results is the inexplicable loop of discontent. Anger does bring extra energy, but it is blind. The question you have to ask is whether or not that energy is worth closing off the mind to the possibilities.

"As long as space endures,

as long as sentient beings exist,

until then, may I too remain

and dispel the miseries of the world."

~ Vremaja Idama

Rinai Vero
Moira.
Villore Accords
#118 - 2015-03-27 17:56:51 UTC
As I said a while ago, the origin of this topic was specifically targeted to incite conflict through its blatant hostility towards the Federation. It seems mostly to have served that purpose among most of the Caldari participants. Our Intaki neighbors, wisely, seem to have been mostly content to observe.

My original intent in participating was to clarify GMVA's current diplomatic relationship vis a vis the ILF, and our official political position regarding ongoing Intaki issues. I remain willing to discuss both issues further, although perhaps it would be better to do so in private, rather than in the theater of the IGS.

Dailar Toralen
Toralen Industries
#119 - 2015-03-27 18:49:25 UTC
Aedre Lafisques wrote:
Dailar Toralen wrote:
Us not keeping the peace? Says the Villore Accord. Your people are the one's who burned our homeworld. And it is 'mine', and that of the whole Caldari State! Caldari Prime is our homeworld, and you burned it. How dare a member of the Villore Accord attempt to represent Caldari Prime!



This seems like you're gunning for a fight. Mlle. Vero and others that hail from the Caldari Prime of today are exactly who we should be listening to when it comes to deciding what to 'do' with these planets. They have family there, and have lost family there. I'm afraid you may be trying to illicit an emotional response in this thread, one that would be quite justified at this point.

Likewise, we should be handling Intaki with Intaki, not dealing blows over their head. If we don't focus on the matter at hand, we disrespect the conversation.


I apologize, I understand where you are coming from. I just can't stand a member of the Villore Accord pretending to represent Caldari Prime.

We are Toralen Industries. It doesn't matter if you fight for money, idealogies, or because it's what you are good at and it doesn't matter if you fight threw trade, combat, or diplomacy. No matter what or how you fight, there's a place for you.

Dailar Toralen
Toralen Industries
#120 - 2015-03-27 19:04:45 UTC
Bataav wrote:
Nomistrav wrote:
Let me be clear, nothing is ever going to be gained from the dialogue I am witnessing today.

Oh I don't know.

The next time someone asks me why the people of Intaki might want to be independent of the Federation, I can point them to this discussion.

It serves as a concise example of what happens every time Intaki's place in New Eden is discussed.

Some within the Federation and State cannot help themselves but to fall back on the age-old habit of using Intaki as a tool to fight their opponents.

Voices of reason quickly become lost in the storm, and as the two sides argue with each other, Intaki itself becomes forgotten.

Independence would deny both sides their would-be weapon of choice. The CEWPA front lines would shift, allowing those intent on pursuing conflict to redeploy, and Intaki and her colonies might just have an opportunity to tred a path more peaceful.




Thank you for that. All I tried to say was that the Villore Accord was not allowed to attempt to represent the Caldari State. Now, let us redirect this disccusion to the Intaki.

We are Toralen Industries. It doesn't matter if you fight for money, idealogies, or because it's what you are good at and it doesn't matter if you fight threw trade, combat, or diplomacy. No matter what or how you fight, there's a place for you.