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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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[New structures] Market Hubs and Drilling Platforms

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Author
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
#41 - 2015-03-23 17:19:02 UTC
How will moon mining work?

Will there still only be one drilling platform per moon, or can multiple structures compete with each other for the limited hourly resource allotment?

I really like the latter.

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Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#42 - 2015-03-23 17:35:28 UTC
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:

Ed: to be clear I would prefer that all resources are available to everyone without them being fenced of as private by a structure being in place. Moon mining ships would be my choice for instance, but with the moon mining structures giving large boosts to corp members. then anyone can mine a moon that they find but those controling the space it is in will gain much more benefits. this would open up ninja mining in a prospector varient (for instance) as a possibilty for smaller groups/solo players and hopefully put more pilots in space.



  1. Anchor drilling platform at moon.
  2. Set to corp use.
  3. Make 100 alts
  4. Moon mine with 100 alts.
  5. profit *100!


Bad idea. This will have to be limited in some way or moon goo values will be utterly destroyed. I know moon resources have abundancy. But that isn't granular at all. x1, x2, or x3? Meh. Making moon mining more like PI might work. Perhaps hisec moon mining may even become possible.

Removing POS fuel costs will make many of the crap moons and reactions suddenly viable for small-time miners. tbh, this would be a big step forward even if nothing else was changed.

tl;dr: if a Drilling Platform on a money moon can extract multiples more than the current mechanics allow, it will break the T2 economy. This must be very carefully evaluated and balanced.


Market Hubs

Personal market structures in lo/nul/w-space will be mercilessly hazed. They will be useless in hisec except for systems without stations. Even then, a simple wardec fixes that. I can only see this being successful for major powers.

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RainReaper
Bras-Tek Industries
Nefatari Union
#43 - 2015-03-23 17:35:41 UTC
i have a fev questions about the drilling platform. can it mine ore? is it automatic or do i have to manualy control the mining lasers?
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
#44 - 2015-03-23 17:39:11 UTC
I think this is the right place to ask this question.

I am a small alliance player who likes to operate in 0.0, the biggest issue for me since the nerf to carrier range is logistics, yes we can get around it with WH's to a degree, however it is going to take time to setup an operation.

I am hoping, but expect not to see it to have some fall back structure which is very difficult if not impossible to probe down, which can be cloaked in which a med bay, a small numbers of ships and some hangers for stuff is available, which also allows some other limited operations. Unless you have something like that then expect not to see that many people make the tough move out into deep 0.0. It does not have to be big, just a personal fall back station for a limited amount of stuff and ships that allows you to continue operating.

To me this is critical, I know you guys want to see things explode, but you have to enable players to have something that enables them to keep at it even after they have been rolled over by one of the big alliances coalitions which will not be going away.

I think you will need to setup something around the cloak mechanism as the best approach and if you use some of the functions like industry etc it can be scanned down.

I hope you understand what I mean and why I am asking for this!

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Ekaterina 'Ghetto' Thurn
Department 10
#45 - 2015-03-23 17:44:25 UTC
Regarding drilling platforms I would rather they did not arrive in a passive or 'AFK' format.

When I watched the fanfest structures presentation I gathered the drilling platforms would not form part of a POS or outpost. The larger rock/planetoid formations would appear randomly in asteroid belts and/or mining anomalies . The drilling platform would be dropped by an Orca and anchored to the larger rock/planetoid. It would look in appearance like the mining colonies you see in mission deadspaces currently but would be operated like a mining ship. Beyond that I'm not sure except that a capsuleer/s would have to be present for mining to take place.

Do you foresee drilling platforms being available in null, low, WH, and high sec systems or just candy for null-sec ?

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RainReaper
Bras-Tek Industries
Nefatari Union
#46 - 2015-03-23 17:52:31 UTC
Ekaterina 'Ghetto' Thurn wrote:
Regarding drilling platforms I would rather they did not arrive in a passive or 'AFK' format.

When I watched the fanfest structures presentation I gathered the drilling platforms would not form part of a POS or outpost. The larger rock/planetoid formations would appear randomly in asteroid belts and/or mining anomalies . The drilling platform would be dropped by an Orca and anchored to the larger rock/planetoid. It would look in appearance like the mining colonies you see in mission deadspaces currently but would be operated like a mining ship. Beyond that I'm not sure except that a capsuleer/s would have to be present for mining to take place.

Do you foresee drilling platforms being available in null, low, WH, and high sec systems or just candy for null-sec ?


personaly i hope they wont be auto. one thing i see in the future with this for highsec. i could place one down close to a belt. mine stuff without fear of ganking cause ganking that structure would be hell*war decs still a thing tough* i could then refine the ore i mine and build stuff to sell to people flying by. like ammo and such. would be kinda passive sure but as long as i have to control the miners it should not be that bad.
Alexis Nightwish
#47 - 2015-03-23 17:58:40 UTC
Questions:

Will the Market and Office Hubs be available in W-space, allowing us to FINALLY have jump clone service available?


Will Drilling platforms come in a size or version that facilitates temporary or one-time deployment? In W-space we often scan down a chain looking for gas, and if we found a good system with some instrumentals I can see us utilizing a platform to improve our gas harvesting. You could make it so that it has storage and we could deposit the gas there instead of taking it all the way home, making the platform a potential content generator as people attack it or ambush miners/indies at that location.

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RainReaper
Bras-Tek Industries
Nefatari Union
#48 - 2015-03-23 18:01:39 UTC
i have one question for ccp... is there..uhhh... a eta for when we get these lovely new structures on the test server to play with~?
Emmy Mnemonic
The Northerners
Northern Coalition.
#49 - 2015-03-23 18:15:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Emmy Mnemonic
Some questions on drilling platforms:

* Will they be anchorable in nullsec without sov? If not, will they be anchorable in lowsec to access moongoo there?
* What will happen to drilling yield when sov is removed from a system? I.e. will sov give a yield-bonus to what is extracted?
* Will there be a possibility to increase a drilling platform yield by iHub upgrades?
* Will siphons work on drilling platforms? If so, what will they siphon out and how to "control" what is stolen?
* Will reaction chains work the same way as they do today in POSes, or will there be a possibility to chain longer reaction-chains?
* Will you have to have several drilling platforms in a system to extract the moon-goo which is today extracted by a POS? I.e. will you also have to manually transport the goo and/or reaction-results between different platforms, in analogy with how it works with POSes today?

Some general questions concerning the new structures:
* Today, cynos can be lit so that ships are instantly within docking range to stations/outposts, in reality making jumpcapable ships invulnerable when using cynos to these structures of today. On POSes however, you have to ligth cynos at least 5000m from the POS-shield, adding a certain risk to cynoing in to POSes. What is the intended cyno-functionality for the new structures?

And finally some idéas and comments:
I understood that there where some thoughts about connecting R64 moon-goo to the sov-mechanics, so that sov gives some kind of "bonus" to the yield possible from moons in sov-space. I think this (if it will be so) is a splendid idea! Today there are R64 moons available in lowsec, and those moons are just as valuable as a R64 in nullsec. My view is that the value should scale so that R64s in lowsec are valuable, but not as potentially valuable as a R64 in nullsec where you have sov. The reason for this is that connecting R64 incomes to sov would give large alliances a reason to fight for sov. No large alliance will fight for upgraded ratting systems IMHO. Alliances WILL however fight fiercly for R64 incomes.

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Rose Honey
Small Holdings Inc.
#50 - 2015-03-23 18:54:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Rose Honey
Will the new drilling platform give Mining Bonuses to All mining in a system~? or Just buff the stats of the mine-able rocks? As if they give bonuses what outside of hauling is the point of an ORCA?

The Rorqual is pretty much already useless, its only job is giving clones to people which these new poses will now also do. So that ship is basically a 2b barge transport which is bad.

What will the base repossessing Yield be in High, Low, Null and Worm space? Will you for instants be able to plop down a Base, slap down a mining service, and 3 Yield rigs and get 100% yield again with skills?

As for the Market Hub, Can I set different taxes levels for Blues, Reds and nuets?

Can I also have a Level 4 agent in my base, that I can tax peoples missions on?
voetius
Grundrisse
#51 - 2015-03-23 18:54:50 UTC

About the Market Hubs. I realise that the dev blog is part concept and partly a base for discussion.

In one of the pictures there is a Market Hub in Luminaire that is under attack and has a corp icon. Does this mean you are planning to allow players (corporations really) to deploy a market hub in high sec and if so would be be like a normal station where you can buy and sell? or some sort of hybrid like null sec where you have freeports (e.g. in providence) or stations that exclude non-blues?

Or am I reading too much into the concept art and things are still under discussion?
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#52 - 2015-03-23 19:38:12 UTC
Ekaterina 'Ghetto' Thurn wrote:
Regarding drilling platforms I would rather they did not arrive in a passive or 'AFK' format.

When I watched the fanfest structures presentation I gathered the drilling platforms would not form part of a POS or outpost. The larger rock/planetoid formations would appear randomly in asteroid belts and/or mining anomalies . The drilling platform would be dropped by an Orca and anchored to the larger rock/planetoid. It would look in appearance like the mining colonies you see in mission deadspaces currently but would be operated like a mining ship. Beyond that I'm not sure except that a capsuleer/s would have to be present for mining to take place.

Do you foresee drilling platforms being available in null, low, WH, and high sec systems or just candy for null-sec ?


To me, it seems it meant:

Anchor this thing to a big rock (that can't be mined) and it will over time produce small clusters of asteroids that you can mine as usual.
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#53 - 2015-03-23 19:48:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Vincent Athena
It would be great if I could fly up to someplace where an event is taking place and drop a open-to-the public market, full of ammo and modules for everyone.

That means markets cannot be limited to just XL structures. Give traveling salesmen something too.

An idea for drilling platforms: Turn over the role of spawning mining anomalies to these structures. Essentially, they have a scanner that finds the rocks. This scanner should be script-able. You can set it to find anomalies slanted toward different minerals. In that way, miners can follow the market, spawning that is most valuable at any given time.

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Phoenix Jones
The Markoni Dragons
#54 - 2015-03-23 19:58:46 UTC
On the drilling platform, if the platform spawned ore/rocks that were mined from the moon, which had to be collected by a miningb' ship/barge, that's ok.

Basically the platform mines the moon, roids spawn around the platform (pieces of the moon), players mine the pieces for moongoo (barges and ventures go to work). It turns an alliance asset into a group collection effort.

If you want to make the rorqual more useful, allow it to tractor in large pieces of the ore and literally munch it. The fastest option of mining moon ore, or possibly give it a bonus to the amount it eats.

Basically give the goo to the players and let them have it.

Yaay!!!!

Aliventi
Mouth Trumpet Cavalry.
Mouth Trumpet Cavalry
#55 - 2015-03-23 20:00:47 UTC
Are you considering allowing these drilling structures to mine ore/ice from belts/anomalies? I think this would be a valuable addition to the game. It has a good mix of risk and reward that can be balanced such that in order to recoup the invested cost of the platform must be functioning and protected for quite some time. It can, and probably should, mine at a lower rate that a comparably expensive mining fleet of exhumers/barges.

As a numerical example perhaps a 1-1.5 bil isk mining platform can mine with the effectiveness of a moderately skilled hulk. The platform cannot flee if an enemy appears, its moderate defenses cannot fight off a dedicated opponent, but it does mine with effectiveness that if the structure is still standing 2 days later you will be gaining a profit, and it does mine 24 hours a day. This can be expanded into a 10 bil isk structure that has non-trivial defenses, mines as much as a fleet of hulks, but would take a week or two to start making a profit. Or a 100 mil isk strucutre that has pitiful defenses and mines as much as a mining barge.

By adding these automated ore/ice drilling platforms there is still a place for miners who enjoy mining. Those of us that are willing to invest into structures that are constantly at risk, and can't stand mining, would gain a huge avenue of gameplay. It would bring additional meaningful gameplay and be a wonderful target for roaming groups.
Terranid Meester
Tactical Assault and Recon Unit
#56 - 2015-03-23 20:02:51 UTC
Somatic Neuron wrote:
Currently there is no way to get rid of people that are squatting on planets that you want for your own use Pirate


Id prefer a proper iteration of PI involving orbital bombardment ammo that we can use on dust players.
bp920091
Black Aces
Goonswarm Federation
#57 - 2015-03-23 20:28:45 UTC
How is moon mining going to work in the new system. Is it still going to be relatively passive income, or will there be an entirely new way of getting said materials.

If the new structure can mine like the old ones (moon harvesters), please give us the ability to mine up to four types per moon (assuming the moon has said types). A lot of base r4 and r8 materials are mined as a byproduct, usually on deathstars.
Burl en Daire
M.O.M.S. Corp
#58 - 2015-03-23 21:42:26 UTC
Querns wrote:
The idea of "passive" mining structures is very intriguing. Will drilling platforms be able to be parked in an asteroid belt (or even a mining anomaly) and be able to mine autonomously, or will doing so require human interaction throughout the process?



The drilling station is interesting, I would like to see it used to mine rings instead of regular belts. Plop a mining platform in the ring of your choice and fit it with a module that would mine the item you are wanting. I would prefer as much active game play as possible because passive income is bad so make the platform open for anyone to easily take from.

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Somatic Neuron
Masterwork Productions Inc
#59 - 2015-03-23 21:48:19 UTC
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
Somatic Neuron wrote:
Would the drilling platform, or some other sort of platform structure, be able to replace Planetary Interaction, please? Currently there is no way to get rid of people that are squatting on planets that you want for your own use Pirate


You watch for them coming in to system and kill them when they try to gather the goodies, do it enough times and they'll go away.

Ed: to be clear I would prefer that all resources are available to everyone without them being fenced of as private by a structure being in place. Moon mining ships would be my choice for instance, but with the moon mining structures giving large boosts to corp members. then anyone can mine a moon that they find but those controling the space it is in will gain much more benefits. this would open up ninja mining in a prospector varient (for instance) as a possibilty for smaller groups/solo players and hopefully put more pilots in space.



I wasn't referring to "fencing off" a planet, or any other resource...but merely a way to give us a method of interrupting/removing others. Could be any number of "Planetary Drilling Platforms" around a planet as far as I am concerned. Scan them down, and then kill the ones that don't belong.
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Singularity Expedition Services
Singularity Syndicate
#60 - 2015-03-23 21:52:10 UTC
Jinrai Tremaine wrote:
One general concern I have with the new structures concerns their pricing and their capture mechanics; based on the dev blog/fanfest slides it seems they'll be subject to Entosis Link mechanics, which in turn implies the structures will be captured in a successful attack, rather than destroyed.

Since attackers would then get ownership of the structure (and, presumably its fittings, except possibly rigs) it seems like this would provide a significant incentive for large groups to prey on smaller groups that couldn't effectively fight back, just to take their structures for resale.

In comparison, right now small/solo corps can run a POS with relatively little risk, because usually the most valuable asset in such a setup is the control tower, which has to be destroyed for an attack to be successful. Generally this means that it simply isn't worth the time/ISK involved in attacking the POS in the first place. On the other hand, if the whole POS setup could be captured, there'd be a lot more risk for small/non-PvP-focused corps.

Capturing structures also opens up a lot of questions with regards to assets stored there - If I'm selling my goods in a public-access market hub and another group comes along, gains control over the hub and sets it to corp-only, would I still be able to recover my assets and if so, how? What about if they take it over and unanchor the station and haul it away?


Capturing makes sense in Sov structure terms but stations should have to be destroyed. They will be too much of an isk investment to simply take through the entosis links. Large alliances would be able to take such structures at will completely destroying any small allinces chances of gaining any kind of foothold.