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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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[New structures] Market Hubs and Drilling Platforms

First post First post
Author
Iroquoiss Pliskin
9B30FF Labs
#21 - 2015-03-23 14:32:37 UTC
I want to be able to set & collect taxes on any market transaction in my market hub. Cool
Milton Middleson
Rifterlings
#22 - 2015-03-23 14:42:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Milton Middleson
Is the intention that mining 'drilling platforms' will actually mine minerals on their own? That's not necessarily a bad thing, but it is quite a radical paradigm shift. So long as they are sufficiently constrained and vulnerable, that could give a powerful incentive for spaceholding.

--

For trade hubs, is there plans for a finite capacity of goods in them? Or will you be able to stuff an arbitrarily large volume inside?
Dyexz
Comrades in Construction
TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance
#23 - 2015-03-23 15:05:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Dyexz
Somatic Neuron wrote:
Would be nice if we could actually get some sort of mission service in our new structures.


That option will probably only be available for the Administration structure, as it was mentioned as a possibility in the keynote at Fanfest. It is not the missions them selves that will be attracted, but Agents will be encouraged to be locating their services out of your structure (from what I can remember from keynote)

you can find out more here.
Phoenix Jones
The Markoni Dragons
#24 - 2015-03-23 15:15:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Phoenix Jones
Will this be available in wspace? There are some concerns.

1) cloaky pvp market harassment (afk cloaked in space wiping out a corps market).
2) storage and loss (market hub blowing up).
3) easy Intel (jump into wspace, open market, if stuff available, can count the amount of assets present and whether to blow up or not).
3) clones. Absolutely deny clone jumping to and from wspace. Clone swapping (implant swapping), fine. Jumping out or into the system, terrible.

Docking or mooring?

Can corporate and alliance settings be made so that only blues can see if there is even a market present (hide free Intel from neutrals and reds).

On the drilling platforms... Seems fine atm minus getting caught in a bubble as your transporting stuff back and forth.

Yaay!!!!

Avui
Six Project
#25 - 2015-03-23 15:16:08 UTC
Since you are creating a market hub structure I assume that you leave items there to be sold and be able to access the item that you bought.

Also you mention to have the access to the structures being managed by corp, alliance or standing.

If both things are true can you please make sure that you can make contracts out of this structure?

So you can actually ask 3rd parties to haul the items.

And if you like that, while you are doing this for this structure, please make the same for the PI storage structure and the POS fuel holding structure (whatever they are called).

If you have to manage dozens of POSes either you have to distribute access rights to a lot of people or create a high burden in a small amount (the ones that refuel). If these could contracted you can actually have any people from the alliance or even outside it (think high sec) to refuel it for you.

I think you can create a whole new market. :)
John McCreedy
Eve Defence Force
The Bastion
#26 - 2015-03-23 15:24:06 UTC
I posted (admittedly a long post) in the structures thread raising some concerns, none of which have been answered so perhaps you could take the time to answer the one specific to market hubs, please? Are you proposing that in order to buy something, I need to undock from my station/structure, fly to another planet, access the market, purchase the item/s and fly it back to where I dock just so I can fit?

In addition, if I am seeding the market and/or contracts and the market hub can be blown up, what happens to my investment? Does it blow up along with the structure? Does it get ejected like the proposed mechanic for storing ships (which no one will do if you make it so they can be blown up)? Something else?

If you could please clarify these points it would help the debate.

13 years and counting. Eve Defence Force is recruiting.

Ben Ishikela
#27 - 2015-03-23 15:29:06 UTC
About drilling and the actual opportunity with the new structure patch, i will link a proposal from ealier.
It talks about Harvest time. Think about the crops and the conflict that comes with autumn in medieval. Sure, new Eden is advanced. But good old Conflict that is true to humans, what can possibly go wrong in a game? Shocked

Have a Look
TL:DR
Known recurring Point in Time for when ressources come in huge chunks (via spaceelevator/etc). So that timed interception/Pilaging/Theft is worth something and an interesting conflict driver.


Ideas are like Seeds. I'd chop fullgrown trees to start a fire.

Awulf
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#28 - 2015-03-23 15:39:05 UTC
Would cloning facilities be available in w-space?

This has been a sore point for many a wormholer. No way to effectively jump between clones with different implant sets.
Onslaughtor
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#29 - 2015-03-23 16:18:24 UTC
One idea I have had for a while

ORE collection center

The Ore Cllection Center is a specialized deployable that is designed to be launched in ore and ice belts and act as a automated fiscal payout and material collecting agent. After deploying it will automaticly tractor, scoop, payout to the person depositing and tax if set too. Can also be sold to directly.

Tractor range is 200km, it only tractors in jet cans or deployable cans.
It takes 10secs before it will tractor in the can, by default, this should be a changeable setting.
Upon the can reaching the OCC it will scoop all ores, ice, gas into a very large internal ore bay.
It will take the estimated price, or a set one, for all the ore and then apply the owner tax (% the owner is not going to pay for), then deposit the payment to the user as a ore bounty (This way the user’s corp and alliance can tax them) .
Standings may also be set to determine paybacks.
The isk will come from a set location, and up to a limit set by the owner (Its like a buy order)
No more than one may be placed within 100,000 km of each other.
Upon destruction the OCC drops ore like normal along with some of the components needed to build it. The isk buy order is returned to its owner.
Ore in the OCC can be either scooped from the hold by the owner, or someone designated by the owner, or can be remotely jettisoned into a large can by the owner or owner affiliate. This can will not be scooped back up.


Course this is just a sketched out idea, but anything could be changed.
Kym Sorenson
Lone Wolf Union
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#30 - 2015-03-23 16:20:39 UTC
One of the single biggest questions I'm sure a lot of people have is, will there be a fundamental change in how "moon mats" are extracted? Will they continue to be only at moons, or is there going to be a total overhaul of raw t2 mats with these "anchorable anywhere" drilling platforms? That seems to be the fundamental place to start this discussion.
Rodric O'Connor
Dark Evolved Industries
Dark Taboo
#31 - 2015-03-23 16:25:43 UTC
with the Drilling Platforms i can see 2 way you can implement this:
1.have the structures could catch an asteroid or meteorite or a comet and hole it in place wile players could mine it out (this would be random event or a timed one like ice belts)
2. have the Drilling Platforms pasted in a belt for a limited time and have a player use it it mine large meteorite the cut it up in the in to smaller pieces for the fleet the mine and tack back to the station ( have it so the Drilling Platforms would last for as long as the large meteorite last and have the player is operating Drilling Platforms to scan the meteorite to find the best deposits of minerals to mine and to cut off the wast rock)

Jean-Paul Sartre once said “People are like dice. We throw ourselves in the direction of our own choosing.” these words are so true in eve

Axloth Okiah
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#32 - 2015-03-23 16:30:16 UTC
Please allow clone swapping without clone jumping in wspace.
And the passive mining structures sound too much like the current passive and riskless moon mining and top-down isk we have already.
Hafwolf
Krieg 7th Brigade
#33 - 2015-03-23 16:31:01 UTC
How about for the drilling platform you have a module for mineral compression or reprocessing and movement. Most of these structures will either be private or corp owned. I have to move my minerals to a station to use a freight service. Could interbus shipping be use to move materials either to station or to other structures in the same system or a few jumps to the local station either npc or player owned. If I am mining and refining materials in the drilling platform and I have or a friend has a assemble hub in the system where my bpo's are at even though they could be destroyed it might be cheaper for me to have interbus ship the materials then stop my mining.

Also does this platform deal with scrap. if it does it might be usefull in giving higher rates for repocessing scrap then stations for people that just rat.

If this platform does its own harvesting i think it should harvest its fuel.
Phoenix Jones
The Markoni Dragons
#34 - 2015-03-23 16:32:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Phoenix Jones
Axloth Okiah wrote:
Please allow clone swapping without clone jumping in wspace.
And the passive mining structures sound too much like the current passive and riskless moon mining and top-down isk we have already.



I have to agree. It should require something like a Rorqual pilot and ship to dock at it to make it start mining. Go moor your ship to it to get it mining.

Tosses the afk alt corporation owning moons.

Potential for anchoring alternative people onto the array to moonmine (or ninja moonmine).

Why even suggest this? You remove the moon from being an alliance asset down to individual pilots. A person would physically have to fly a rorqual to this array, anchor said rorqual, and mine through use of the array into the rorqual. After they are done, they can unanchor the rorqual and do what they see fit.

You also give the ability for other time zones to anchor their rorqual to arrays to go mining. You can support local miners by boosting with the rorqual while in the array. You also offer the rorqual the ability to boost mining fleets.

I'd add in some type of rule where the array kicks out a logged off rorqual (so not to monopolize it). I'd also consider making the rorqual pilot have the ability to set a reinforce for themselves. They getting attacked while in array, it hits reinforce hit point marker, the rorqual pilot would have to hit a "confirm reinforce" button in the UI. Basically if your are afk, you die. If you have at least some minimal threshold of paying attention, you can reinforce your rorqual and save it.

Ultimate concept, remove afk pos moon mining and allow the basic player to moonmine.

Just an option.

Yaay!!!!

Lugh Crow-Slave
#35 - 2015-03-23 16:39:33 UTC
Querns wrote:
The idea of "passive" mining structures is very intriguing. Will drilling platforms be able to be parked in an asteroid belt (or even a mining anomaly) and be able to mine autonomously, or will doing so require human interaction throughout the process?


they aren't passive some one in the drilling structure turns it on while it is attatched to an asteroid that can't be mined then smaller mineable chunks break off
Lliam Tosen
Shinigami Miners
Already Replaced.
#36 - 2015-03-23 16:42:41 UTC
I guess to start with my passion
Drilling Platforms, We have seen the envisioned first step in mobile tractor units. and how short of a time it took for Indy corps to utilize them not in ratting but in logistics in Mining. Park an MTU 100 km out and have a dedicated hauler going back and forth,

The Medium step for this I could envision an MTU with built in compression along with a RF timer. And the ability to select Individual, Corp, Or alliance Pulling and Access. One issue with MTU's now is that more than 1 in a belt it ends up stealing others cans and so on.

Large. What is now a Min station I believe. A small outpost with Compression, Refining, Tractoring and Defensive capacity as well as If put near belts had a "Large" strip miner or ability to Deploy say a carrier's equivilent of fighters . 10-15 Fighter size mining drones . or 10-15 standard drones to act on a defensive capacity.

xlarge of course falls into all of the above category on top of THA BIG GUN. aka drilling platform. Moon harvesting, Gas cloud harvesting. .... One thing ive loved from the "Saga of Seven Sons" series was humans putting gas harvesting platforms in orbits of gas planets. I can envision seeing a module that acts as a "gravity Gen' attracting mineable astroids into the orbit of the xlarge facility in essence creating a new belt as a reward for the heavy work put into deploying one of these massive beasts. Put one on a moon and have The Big Gun harvesting the mess out of moon materials available. IF near a planet have the same said collector harvesting Gas from the atmosphere.

Im Rambling but these are what I envision with Drilling Platform layouts. So much potential and ps.. RORQUAL LOVE PLEASE!!!!!
#Capital Mining Drones #Capital Strip Miners
Jinrai Tremaine
Cheese It Inc
#37 - 2015-03-23 16:43:13 UTC
One general concern I have with the new structures concerns their pricing and their capture mechanics; based on the dev blog/fanfest slides it seems they'll be subject to Entosis Link mechanics, which in turn implies the structures will be captured in a successful attack, rather than destroyed.

Since attackers would then get ownership of the structure (and, presumably its fittings, except possibly rigs) it seems like this would provide a significant incentive for large groups to prey on smaller groups that couldn't effectively fight back, just to take their structures for resale.

In comparison, right now small/solo corps can run a POS with relatively little risk, because usually the most valuable asset in such a setup is the control tower, which has to be destroyed for an attack to be successful. Generally this means that it simply isn't worth the time/ISK involved in attacking the POS in the first place. On the other hand, if the whole POS setup could be captured, there'd be a lot more risk for small/non-PvP-focused corps.

Capturing structures also opens up a lot of questions with regards to assets stored there - If I'm selling my goods in a public-access market hub and another group comes along, gains control over the hub and sets it to corp-only, would I still be able to recover my assets and if so, how? What about if they take it over and unanchor the station and haul it away?
Kopaka Newton
Sanctuary of Shadows
Dock Workers
#38 - 2015-03-23 16:49:02 UTC
I think the market should be only bound to dockable structures. I don't see reasons to split the 2 functions.
1Robert McNamara1
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#39 - 2015-03-23 17:04:54 UTC
I'd like to see a vending machine.


Ammo, repair paste, cap booster charges, deployables, etc. Maybe each one has 5-10 items it can sell, each item gets an icon on the outside, limited quantities. They're cheap, they're in space, and they're convenient. Players buy them, deploy them, stock them. They have total ownership of the structure or share ownership to the corp/alliance. They can set prices based on standings, but they can't allow others to stock their vending machine for them.

Can be 'bashed' after say a single reinforcement timer.
Akrasjel Lanate
Lanate Industries
#40 - 2015-03-23 17:08:47 UTC
Quote:
Market Hubs focus on trade, office, player to player cloning service, ship insurance, character customization services.

In case of "ship insurance" you think like... you create a special wallet for "SRP" and the CEO sets the payout for diffrent hull(s) on diffrent levels... Tradicional ship "insurance" won't work in a game based on descrution... leave it where it is in the hands of NPC where they have infinite ammount of ISK.

"Player to player cloning service" maby use corpses as biomass for this to work

"Character customization services" you have Pilot's Body Resculpt Certificate or you are talking about basic one that the NPC corps offer/


Quote:
Drilling Platforms focus on resource harvesting, mainly with reprocessing, moon harvesting, reactions, mining, gas harvesting, or new harvesting mechanics.

I would like a new way of passive resource harvesting. Blink

CEO of Lanate Industries

Citizen of Solitude