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Bye Bye AFK Cloaking

First post
Author
Kestrix
The Whispering
#81 - 2015-03-23 14:19:12 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
CCP shouldn't be developing in a way that compensates lazy and uncreative people for being lazy and uncreative.


Thank you jenn aSide for supporting this new feature against afk cloakers

BoBoZoBo
MGroup9
#82 - 2015-03-23 14:20:21 UTC
You guys still do not realize... it is the active ones you need to worry about.

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Lan Wang
Princess Aiko Hold My Hand
Safety. Net
#83 - 2015-03-23 14:27:46 UTC
BoBoZoBo wrote:
You guys still do not realize... it is the active ones you need to worry about.


its to determine who is afk and who is not i guess, afk cloakers should be able to be killed just like they can kill at anytime they return, if they go afk they should return to a pod in home station

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*

Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#84 - 2015-03-23 14:31:41 UTC
Kestrix wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
CCP shouldn't be developing in a way that compensates lazy and uncreative people for being lazy and uncreative.


Thank you jenn aSide for supporting this new feature against afk cloakers



I don't have a problem with it as described.

here's what will happen. CCP will put in a structure that decloaks people every once in a while and 'cloakers' will still find some way to afk cloak (coupled with the fact that the majority of null pve farmers won't respond to a decloaked player anyways, even if they could, no matter what they say) and the whining will continue.

I t will continue in the exact same way that miners continued to complain after the mining ship EHP buffs. They will continue to complain in the exact same way people complain about bumping even though CCP introduced ANCHOR RIGS. While the complainers will never realize it, the rest of us do actually realize what the problem is.

It's not that afk cloakers are safe, it's the fact that someone exists (at the keyboard or not) who can disrupt their acquisition of space money. So they make up all these fake reasons why afk cloaking is bad (if for nothing else than to lie to themselves) and fool themselves into believing it (like the miners did).

When the afk cloakers adapt (like, for instance, forgetting about the cloak and just putting a really really fast afk ceptor or T3 destroyer in the system, uncloaked but impossible to catch without a specialized link set up counter ceptor which no one will have available, the whining will restart and the people doing the whining will make up new reasons why 'afk ceptors' are too safe and how MWDs should shut off automatically after 10 minutes if there is no keyboard input...


Me? I'll be ratting my arse parts off and if someone does cloaky camp in the old way i'll pulse that structure (if it works that way), kill the fool, and stuff more isk into the EVE economy than I'm doing right now ... despite Confderation of XXPizza's best efforts.
Malcaz
Omni Paradox Securities
#85 - 2015-03-23 15:11:18 UTC
If they make null local like WH local, you can still easily afk cloak... just say something and they'll know you are there, or just gank people randomly. In fact that'll be even worse because they have no idea of whether you left the system. AFK cloakers can terrorize even better.
Organic Lager
Drinking Buddies
#86 - 2015-03-23 15:29:54 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Kestrix wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
CCP shouldn't be developing in a way that compensates lazy and uncreative people for being lazy and uncreative.


Thank you jenn aSide for supporting this new feature against afk cloakers



I don't have a problem with it as described.

here's what will happen. CCP will put in a structure that decloaks people every once in a while and 'cloakers' will still find some way to afk cloak (coupled with the fact that the majority of null pve farmers won't respond to a decloaked player anyways, even if they could, no matter what they say) and the whining will continue.

I t will continue in the exact same way that miners continued to complain after the mining ship EHP buffs. They will continue to complain in the exact same way people complain about bumping even though CCP introduced ANCHOR RIGS. While the complainers will never realize it, the rest of us do actually realize what the problem is.

It's not that afk cloakers are safe, it's the fact that someone exists (at the keyboard or not) who can disrupt their acquisition of space money. So they make up all these fake reasons why afk cloaking is bad (if for nothing else than to lie to themselves) and fool themselves into believing it (like the miners did).

When the afk cloakers adapt (like, for instance, forgetting about the cloak and just putting a really really fast afk ceptor or T3 destroyer in the system, uncloaked but impossible to catch without a specialized link set up counter ceptor which no one will have available, the whining will restart and the people doing the whining will make up new reasons why 'afk ceptors' are too safe and how MWDs should shut off automatically after 10 minutes if there is no keyboard input...


Me? I'll be ratting my arse parts off and if someone does cloaky camp in the old way i'll pulse that structure (if it works that way), kill the fool, and stuff more isk into the EVE economy than I'm doing right now ... despite Confderation of XXPizza's best efforts.


Your defence is yeah it's a bad mechanic but why bother changing it? Grrrrrrr change. When a loop hole is found we should actively seek to change it to close the loop hole, bonus points if we can do it with out opening another one.

Afk cloakers are not content, when they are declocked they will become content. If they aren't afk and are creating content then this wont affect them at all.

I would love to see more of these structures introduced to the game, why not allow us to build and defend our space better? more things to build, more things to defend and more things to blow up.
Kestrix
The Whispering
#87 - 2015-03-23 15:32:10 UTC
I continued mining in Null despite having an AFK cloaker in system, what I found annoying was knowing that, that person could remain cloaked and afk as long as they wanted without risk to themselves whilst still posing a potential risk in system to people like myself in none combat ships.

Having a cloakey vessel in a system providing intel, warp to points and so on is fine and any mechanic introduced by CCP to help us find them can be easily countered by an active pilot by moving and re-cloaking. So this does not stop the role of this type of ship/game play. It does however punish lazy and risk adverse players who really do just leave AFK cloakers in systems unattended and this is good.

In recent times there has been a big push in hi-sec to punish miners for being AFK amongst other things and I think punishing the same type of game play in Null is a step in the right direction.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#88 - 2015-03-23 15:50:40 UTC
Organic Lager wrote:


Your defence is yeah it's a bad mechanic but why bother changing it? Grrrrrrr change. When a loop hole is found we should actively seek to change it to close the loop hole, bonus points if we can do it with out opening another one.


I don't have a 'defense' I'm telling it like it is. And it isn't a loop hole, the game was developed that way.

Quote:

Afk cloakers are not content, when they are declocked they will become content. If they aren't afk and are creating content then this wont affect them at all.


Incorrect, afk cloakers cause adjustments (in my case, ratting with warp core stabbed FoF missile/sentry drones Rattlesnakes or other ships instead of my "empty system" set ups like my Machariel. They aren't content to weak people who run and dock up from them., but then, nothing is.

Quote:

I would love to see more of these structures introduced to the game, why not allow us to build and defend our space better? more things to build, more things to defend and more things to blow up.


Because the defender has all the advantages now. This might change in the new system but I doubt it. A system that has too much defense results in immovable , entrenched groups and funny colored donuts.

We'll see how it all turns out, but going back to the original issue, the 'problem' isn't afk cloakers, it's risk averse null sec pve farmers, because those of us who farm in null and know how to deal with risk were never affected by cloakers, afk or otherwise.
Saisin
Chao3's Rogue Operatives Corp
#89 - 2015-03-23 15:50:59 UTC
BoBoZoBo wrote:
You guys still do not realize... it is the active ones you need to worry about.


The only problem with this pseudo-theory is that nobody has any way to tell when a player that is AFK comes back to the keyboard and becomes again a real threat.

Those using that line are disingenuous at best, and likely to shed many tears publicly once/if this de-cloaking pulse brings back the advantage to the currently active pilot, rather than to the mostly AFK pilot.

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March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#90 - 2015-03-23 15:52:10 UTC
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
AFK cloaking should be nerfed just as soon as someone can show how an afk cloaker can hurt anyone.

Pretending you don't understand the problem doesn't make the problem go away. Its like saying hibernating bears are not dangerous because they're hibernating. ******** point of view to take isn't it.


The title of the thread is to do with afk cloaking.

My argument stands.

Pretending that an afk cloaker is a problem is nonsense.

afk cannot harm anyone.

Player is at the keyboard in a cloaked ship, valid style of gameplay.

Weapons do not do any harm you know? It's people who use weapons to harm other people. So why not sell weapons to everyone in any supermarket?

Your logic

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"

Pak Narhoo
Splinter Foundation
#91 - 2015-03-23 15:55:06 UTC
DeadDuck wrote:
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
Player is at the keyboard in a cloaked ship, valid style of gameplay.


It is, so the detection array should not be a problem to him either, since he can pretty much react to an incoming threat.




Yeah, nooooo.
I know many cases where Im not afk cloaked but am cloaked and quite vulnerable if someone turns on that are device.
30 seconds in EVE is a loooong time to be able to get recloaked and no matter what they know now *where* I am.

There is also no incoming message saying: 'warning anti cloak device is about to be turned on'. One moment you are cloaked the next not. Defeats the purpose of being cloaked at all.

To be honest I don't mind pinging the AFK cloaker, even though it means that CCP once again bend over to the whiners. In this case those afraid of someone who isn't there, but for the rest I feel it takes away all that is about cloaked gameplay.

If this gets in as some hope it will I say goodby to my low sec/ nul sec PI/ exploration for example. F-ck it. Smile


Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#92 - 2015-03-23 15:57:12 UTC
March rabbit wrote:
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
AFK cloaking should be nerfed just as soon as someone can show how an afk cloaker can hurt anyone.

Pretending you don't understand the problem doesn't make the problem go away. Its like saying hibernating bears are not dangerous because they're hibernating. ******** point of view to take isn't it.


The title of the thread is to do with afk cloaking.

My argument stands.

Pretending that an afk cloaker is a problem is nonsense.

afk cannot harm anyone.

Player is at the keyboard in a cloaked ship, valid style of gameplay.

Weapons do not do any harm you know? It's people who use weapons to harm other people. So why not sell weapons to everyone in any supermarket?

Your logic


We do in Texas (at least at Wal-mart). What's your point?
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#93 - 2015-03-23 15:58:01 UTC
Pak Narhoo wrote:


If this gets in as some hope it will I say goodby to my low sec/ nul sec PI/ exploration for example. F-ck it. Smile


According to some people you cannot do exploration cloaked: you cannot hack, loot, whatever.
No loss for you anyway.

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"

Pak Narhoo
Splinter Foundation
#94 - 2015-03-23 16:05:38 UTC
March rabbit wrote:
Pak Narhoo wrote:


If this gets in as some hope it will I say goodby to my low sec/ nul sec PI/ exploration for example. F-ck it. Smile


According to some people you cannot do exploration cloaked: you cannot hack, loot, whatever.
No loss for you anyway.


Getting there, observing, moving away when D-scan tells you someone is getting closer, come on you know better then that.
Seven Koskanaiken
Shadow Legions.
SONS of BANE
#95 - 2015-03-23 16:38:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Seven Koskanaiken
New meta: AFK speeding.
Kiandoshia
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#96 - 2015-03-23 16:44:58 UTC
Seven Koskanaiken wrote:
New meta: AFK speeding.


If your overheat it, you wont be AFK speeding for terribly long.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#97 - 2015-03-23 16:46:29 UTC
Kestrix wrote:
I continued mining in Null despite having an AFK cloaker in system, what I found annoying was knowing that, that person could remain cloaked and afk as long as they wanted without risk to themselves whilst still posing a potential risk in system to people like myself in none combat ships.

Having a cloakey vessel in a system providing intel, warp to points and so on is fine and any mechanic introduced by CCP to help us find them can be easily countered by an active pilot by moving and re-cloaking. So this does not stop the role of this type of ship/game play. It does however punish lazy and risk adverse players who really do just leave AFK cloakers in systems unattended and this is good.

In recent times there has been a big push in hi-sec to punish miners for being AFK amongst other things and I think punishing the same type of game play in Null is a step in the right direction.




Sauce for the goose...

Bring back DEEEEP Space!

Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#98 - 2015-03-23 16:47:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Kiandoshia wrote:
Seven Koskanaiken wrote:
New meta: AFK speeding.


If your overheat it, you wont be AFK speeding for terribly long.


What you you need to overheat an almost 9km/s Svipul lol?

[Svipul, AFK again]
Micro Auxiliary Power Core II
Micro Auxiliary Power Core II
Reactor Control Unit II
Reactor Control Unit II

Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II

Cynosural Field Generator I
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]

Small Auxiliary Thrusters II
Small Auxiliary Thrusters II
Small Polycarbon Engine Housing I
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#99 - 2015-03-23 16:57:02 UTC
Pak Narhoo wrote:
I know many cases where Im not afk cloaked but am cloaked and quite vulnerable if someone turns on that are device.
30 seconds in EVE is a loooong time to be able to get recloaked and no matter what they know now *where* I am.

There is also no incoming message saying: 'warning anti cloak device is about to be turned on'. One moment you are cloaked the next not. Defeats the purpose of being cloaked at all.
Since they haven't even announced what the change would be, there's no reason to assume you wouldn't be able to see it incoming or react to it. Chances are it would be trivial for an active cloaker to avoid being blown up, and so cloakers would continue to exist.

Pak Narhoo wrote:
[To be honest I don't mind pinging the AFK cloaker, even though it means that CCP once again bend over to the whiners. In this case those afraid of someone who isn't there, but for the rest I feel it takes away all that is about cloaked gameplay.

If this gets in as some hope it will I say goodby to my low sec/ nul sec PI/ exploration for example. F-ck it. Smile
I find it amusign that you talk about CCP bending over to the whiners, yet are stating you would dump an entire playsytle if they made it so cloakers could be pinged once in a while. You want to retain the ability to have 0 risk of being detected for indefinite periods of time without even having to be in the same building as your PC, yet it's everyone else that is the whiner?

The way I see it, this is long overdue. AFK cloaking is an anti-gameplay pattern. It's a player not playing specifically to cause other player not to play too. If they can get rid of that and safely preserve the ability for people who use cloaks actively to continue to do so, I'm all for it.

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Commander Spurty
#100 - 2015-03-23 16:59:50 UTC
I love this idea :P

I also love the idea that a cloaked ship can't see anything.

Any ship using the D-Scan should decloak for a long time.

Perhaps even a force weapons timer.

Make gathering intel be a strategic operation, not a passive one.

There are good ships,

And wood ships,

And ships that sail the sea

But the best ships are Spaceships

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