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Bye Bye AFK Cloaking

First post
Author
Nina Lowel
Echelon Research
Goonswarm Federation
#321 - 2015-04-01 20:37:40 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Nina Lowel wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Nina Lowel wrote:



Why, because you say it's not? LOL. A ceptor can tackle someone in just a few seconds upon entering a system, not everything can align and warp in those few seconds. It happens EVERY DAY, HUNDREDS and HUNDREDS of times. I feel sorry for you IRL :(


They tacle afk ratters every day. You have more than enough time to get a capital out of the anom before they can finish d-scanning it down.



Then why do things other than captials also get tackled hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of times a day? Because they are "stupid"? Should that matter?

Yes, AFK people who are ratting die all the time, why shouldn't AFK cloakers also die all the time? You really enjoy shooting yourself in the foot don't you?


Im fine with afk cloaking being nerfed, but to get that you have to deal with the imbalance it would cause. If you want afk cloaking gone you have to deal with losing your local intel tool. This is the exact same kind of argument we had with the people who wanted fittings on freighters. They also thought they would get nothing but a buff with their demand.



The only thing that MIGHT, MIGHT need to change is appearing in local before breaking your initial gate cloak. I think that MIGHT be acceptable, but 0.0 is balanced around having a local. If you don't want local then go to WH space where CCP designed the entire risk vs reward around having no local. 0.0 was not designed to have no local, they would have to completely rebalance the entire risk vs reward to that of WH levels, but they won't, so move your happy "I want no local" ass to WH space where you can have all the "no local" you can handle.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#322 - 2015-04-01 21:03:41 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Nina Lowel wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Nina Lowel wrote:



Why, because you say it's not? LOL. A ceptor can tackle someone in just a few seconds upon entering a system, not everything can align and warp in those few seconds. It happens EVERY DAY, HUNDREDS and HUNDREDS of times. I feel sorry for you IRL :(


They tacle afk ratters every day. You have more than enough time to get a capital out of the anom before they can finish d-scanning it down.



Then why do things other than captials also get tackled hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of times a day? Because they are "stupid"? Should that matter?

Yes, AFK people who are ratting die all the time, why shouldn't AFK cloakers also die all the time? You really enjoy shooting yourself in the foot don't you?


Im fine with afk cloaking being nerfed, but to get that you have to deal with the imbalance it would cause. If you want afk cloaking gone you have to deal with losing your local intel tool. This is the exact same kind of argument we had with the people who wanted fittings on freighters. They also thought they would get nothing but a buff with their demand.


Lose local and it causes a balance issue with cynos and recons being able to drop fleets, recons will make people 100% invisible without local and still have the power to drop massive dps fleets without anyone even knowing, you make null a stupid place to live unless you are selfsufficient with highsec alts for carebearing


All they can drop are blackops and never in numbers that would overwhelm you. The days of local intel look to be over anyway, CCP are activly toying with new tools to replace it.
Nina Lowel
Echelon Research
Goonswarm Federation
#323 - 2015-04-01 21:11:22 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
All they can drop are blackops and never in numbers that would overwhelm you. The days of local intel look to be over anyway, CCP are activly toying with new tools to replace it.



Hahaha. So delusional.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#324 - 2015-04-01 21:27:00 UTC
Nina Lowel wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
All they can drop are blackops and never in numbers that would overwhelm you. The days of local intel look to be over anyway, CCP are activly toying with new tools to replace it.



Hahaha. So delusional.


Feel free to try anything else when a cyno jammer is up.
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#325 - 2015-04-01 22:49:23 UTC  |  Edited by: sabre906
baltec1 wrote:
Nina Lowel wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
All they can drop are blackops and never in numbers that would overwhelm you. The days of local intel look to be over anyway, CCP are activly toying with new tools to replace it.



Hahaha. So delusional.


Feel free to try anything else when a cyno jammer is up.


When was the last time Bomber Bar blapped a goonie carrier in 15 seconds flat? Oh that's right, yesterday.

Wh space is not only hotdrop proof, the isk in it is vastly higher than any max upgraded -1.0 truesec system (unless you count in moon goo), and there's no sov bills or sov wars.

Why would anyone in their right mind live in a wh system that has gates, hotdrops, sov bills, and far lower isk? In order to convince anyone to live in such a place, rewards will have to be set so high it may as well screw up Eve.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#326 - 2015-04-01 23:06:08 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
You will with an organised defence. We do it day in day out.
You'll only kill a cloaker if he chooses to attack. A guy in station would have to leave his ship and clone behind to get out without getting killed.

baltec1 wrote:
No, what you want is the ability to ensure a perfect safety net via local intel.
Wrong, perfect safety doesn't exist even with local in a system with no AFK cloakers. What I want is for people to actually have to play the ******* game if they want to have any effect on a system. I have no problem with active players running around threatening everyone, but the ability to dump alts into systems and chuck up some permanent 100% safety while completely AFK is just a terrible mechanic.

Baltecs argument is ironic.

Give perma-afk cloakies cyno dropper can scout out targets first its pretty rare you will lose anything, moreso given the overkill usually dropped on a target. I've seen fleets with capitals dropped on single BS, worst I saw was a fleet of at least 100+ mainly tengu's dropped on a 6 man gate camp.

Pretty much why they don't want cloakies touched, risk increases from virtually 0 to a couple of % if people know you're actually playing the game.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#327 - 2015-04-02 08:59:32 UTC
sabre906 wrote:


When was the last time Bomber Bar blapped a goonie carrier in 15 seconds flat? Oh that's right, yesterday.


An AFK carrier not fitted for fighting.
sabre906 wrote:

Wh space is not only hotdrop proof, the isk in it is vastly higher than any max upgraded -1.0 truesec system (unless you count in moon goo), and there's no sov bills or sov wars.

Why would anyone in their right mind live in a wh system that has gates, hotdrops, sov bills, and far lower isk? In order to convince anyone to live in such a place, rewards will have to be set so high it may as well screw up Eve.


You may have missed it but CCP have announced that the rewards in nullsec are indeed getting revamped.
Eve Solecist
Shitt Outta Luck - GANKING4GOOD
#328 - 2015-04-02 09:14:33 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
sabre906 wrote:


When was the last time Bomber Bar blapped a goonie carrier in 15 seconds flat? Oh that's right, yesterday.


An AFK carrier not fitted for fighting.
sabre906 wrote:

Wh space is not only hotdrop proof, the isk in it is vastly higher than any max upgraded -1.0 truesec system (unless you count in moon goo), and there's no sov bills or sov wars.

Why would anyone in their right mind live in a wh system that has gates, hotdrops, sov bills, and far lower isk? In order to convince anyone to live in such a place, rewards will have to be set so high it may as well screw up Eve.


You may have missed it but CCP have announced that the rewards in nullsec are indeed getting revamped.

You can have all the highsec miners for the revamped ore.

No one else wants them.
  • All incoming connection attempts are being blocked. If you want to speak to me you will find me either in Hek local, you can create a contract or make a thread about it in General Discussions. I will call you back. -
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#329 - 2015-04-02 09:16:57 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Nina Lowel wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
All they can drop are blackops and never in numbers that would overwhelm you. The days of local intel look to be over anyway, CCP are activly toying with new tools to replace it.



Hahaha. So delusional.


Feel free to try anything else when a cyno jammer is up.

I cannot talk about current 0.0 but back in 2011 we in DroneLand were VERY AWARE of group of 9-13 people who were dropping solo ratters with up to 12 blackops.... And if you say that your 12 blackops are nothing.... Shocked

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#330 - 2015-04-02 10:56:42 UTC
March rabbit wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Nina Lowel wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
All they can drop are blackops and never in numbers that would overwhelm you. The days of local intel look to be over anyway, CCP are activly toying with new tools to replace it.



Hahaha. So delusional.


Feel free to try anything else when a cyno jammer is up.

I cannot talk about current 0.0 but back in 2011 we in DroneLand were VERY AWARE of group of 9-13 people who were dropping solo ratters with up to 12 blackops.... And if you say that your 12 blackops are nothing.... Shocked


They arn't when you dump 12-30 carriers on them.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#331 - 2015-04-02 20:16:42 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
March rabbit wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Nina Lowel wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
All they can drop are blackops and never in numbers that would overwhelm you. The days of local intel look to be over anyway, CCP are activly toying with new tools to replace it.



Hahaha. So delusional.


Feel free to try anything else when a cyno jammer is up.

I cannot talk about current 0.0 but back in 2011 we in DroneLand were VERY AWARE of group of 9-13 people who were dropping solo ratters with up to 12 blackops.... And if you say that your 12 blackops are nothing.... Shocked


They arn't when you dump 12-30 carriers on them.

Problem with dumping 12-30 carriers is timing.

Scenario - 1 cov ops perma cloaked in system, been there a few weeks (most droppers will have multiple of these all around regions they operate in). See's target. No one in system. CTA - dweebs log off their high sec mission running accounts, log on their blops characters, drop the target, jump out, log out.

There's no way to preempt them unless you have guys perma-ready to counter drop on the off chance the afk will go active the next time. You know this baltec...

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)

Jenshae Chiroptera
#332 - 2015-04-03 00:00:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenshae Chiroptera
Blink

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#333 - 2015-04-03 03:13:16 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:

Problem with dumping 12-30 carriers is timing.

Scenario - 1 cov ops perma cloaked in system, been there a few weeks (most droppers will have multiple of these all around regions they operate in). See's target. No one in system. CTA - dweebs log off their high sec mission running accounts, log on their blops characters, drop the target, jump out, log out.

There's no way to preempt them unless you have guys perma-ready to counter drop on the off chance the afk will go active the next time. You know this baltec...


You have an entire region of people out flying ratting carriers, all you need is a cyno of your own and some organisation. Responce time is damn near instant.
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#334 - 2015-04-03 07:36:21 UTC
I'm no 0.0 expert, but maybe there should be ways to protect backwater systems for mining.

For example, disabling stargates to non-alliance members.

To get in, you would need an entosis for a few minutes, maybe in the prime time window.

That could maybe create a reasonable mechanic to secure and have a decent chance to defend space. If someone manages to get in, either through stealth or guns-a-blazing, then you just lost your safe haven. Interesting new mechanic, maybe?


IRL, fighters fight on the frontlines to protect the civilians creating wealth in the backlines. In current EVE, protecting miners from ninja attacks requires way too much (boring) effort to be viable, from what I understand of 0.0 industrial gameplay.

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!

Nina Lowel
Echelon Research
Goonswarm Federation
#335 - 2015-04-03 13:09:07 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
March rabbit wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Nina Lowel wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
All they can drop are blackops and never in numbers that would overwhelm you. The days of local intel look to be over anyway, CCP are activly toying with new tools to replace it.



Hahaha. So delusional.


Feel free to try anything else when a cyno jammer is up.

I cannot talk about current 0.0 but back in 2011 we in DroneLand were VERY AWARE of group of 9-13 people who were dropping solo ratters with up to 12 blackops.... And if you say that your 12 blackops are nothing.... Shocked


They arn't when you dump 12-30 carriers on them.



Yes because smaller entities always have the numbers on for 12-30 carriers at the sound of a ping in their off time zone. As I said, you're ignorant to the problem because you personally don't have the problem being in a 30k man alliance that's part of a how many thousands of player coalition?
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#336 - 2015-04-03 13:15:36 UTC
Nina Lowel wrote:



Yes because smaller entities always have the numbers on for 12-30 carriers at the sound of a ping in their off time zone. As I said, you're ignorant to the problem because you personally don't have the problem being in a 30k man alliance that's part of a how many thousands of player coalition?


If you don't have 30 guys to call on at any given time you don't deserve to hold your space.
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#337 - 2015-04-03 13:16:12 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:

Problem with dumping 12-30 carriers is timing.

Scenario - 1 cov ops perma cloaked in system, been there a few weeks (most droppers will have multiple of these all around regions they operate in). See's target. No one in system. CTA - dweebs log off their high sec mission running accounts, log on their blops characters, drop the target, jump out, log out.

There's no way to preempt them unless you have guys perma-ready to counter drop on the off chance the afk will go active the next time. You know this baltec...


You have an entire region of people out flying ratting carriers, all you need is a cyno of your own and some organisation. Responce time is damn near instant.


And the next part of why is because his alliance is in space that is difficult to get to apart from Black Ops, try that in other areas and people will just counter drop the carriers with supers, dreads and titans. But fortress Deklin is safe from that so, carriers can be used to counter BLOPS drops by having all the carrier have a cyno on them.

So lets imagine that Test tries that in Wicked Creek, oooops is that 50 PL Supers I see there, does that help baltec1 see the reality of space outside fortress Deklin, lol.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

Nina Lowel
Echelon Research
Goonswarm Federation
#338 - 2015-04-03 13:19:29 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Nina Lowel wrote:



Yes because smaller entities always have the numbers on for 12-30 carriers at the sound of a ping in their off time zone. As I said, you're ignorant to the problem because you personally don't have the problem being in a 30k man alliance that's part of a how many thousands of player coalition?


If you don't have 30 guys to call on at any given time you don't deserve to hold your space.



Why should 30 guys be on call 23/7 because of 1 AFK cyno dropper that decides to find something in the few minutes he's active? It takes less than 30 seconds to drop near any ratter cept maybe a triage carrier but not everyone rats in a triage carrier.

Seriously, you are so ignorant and thick skulled that I literally feel sorry for you IRL and anyone that has to deal with you on a personal basis.
Nina Lowel
Echelon Research
Goonswarm Federation
#339 - 2015-04-03 13:23:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Nina Lowel
Dracvlad wrote:

And the next part of why is because his alliance is in space that is difficult to get to apart from Black Ops, try that in other areas and people will just counter drop the carriers with supers, dreads and titans. But fortress Deklin is safe from that so, carriers can be used to counter BLOPS drops by having all the carrier have a cyno on them.

So lets imagine that Test tries that in Wicked Creek, oooops is that 50 PL Supers I see there, does that help baltec1 see the reality of space outside fortress Deklin, lol.



This is exactly what he doesn't understand. "Doesn't effect me, it shouldn't be changed" Fortress Deklin is well defended against this type of issue because it's out of range and GSF is surrounded by "meat" that has to deal with it and GSF also has nearly 30k pilots.
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#340 - 2015-04-03 13:52:30 UTC
Nina Lowel wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:

And the next part of why is because his alliance is in space that is difficult to get to apart from Black Ops, try that in other areas and people will just counter drop the carriers with supers, dreads and titans. But fortress Deklin is safe from that so, carriers can be used to counter BLOPS drops by having all the carrier have a cyno on them.

So lets imagine that Test tries that in Wicked Creek, oooops is that 50 PL Supers I see there, does that help baltec1 see the reality of space outside fortress Deklin, lol.



This is exactly what he doesn't understand. "Doesn't effect me, it shouldn't be changed" Fortress Deklin is well defended against this type of issue because it's out of range and GSF is surrounded by "meat" that has to deal with it and GSF also has nearly 30k pilots.


Watch his next reply, it will be a one liner troll or something about defending your space, or changing the subject, ahem cough cough...

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp