EVE General Discussion

Some of them have spent so much time on their knees praying at the altar of "think of the children" that they see CCP Rise shattering their illusions as heresy of the worst kind.

I don't think I have ever been suicide ganked.
I have been in High Sec corps under war decs.
People jumping, leaving, logging off, quitting because they can't fight back.
People getting into their first battleships then getting ganked in horrible T1 fits.

So, yeah, the 15 days scope does not cover enough of the "newbie" stage for me to accept what they are saying.

Its not broadening it beyond its limited scope when the community here has made that connection. Theres even a thread in C&P with all the usual sperges using the data to claim new players don't quit the game due to non-consensual PVP or harassment. The whole thing just reaks of a response to the cries of players about new player retention in general, which was never about 15 day old players that are flying a Dragoon doing level 2s.

Thats why its important to point out how terrible this "study" really is. It doesnt even mention how they took into account player alts, new players that barely played, and new players that came from autistlands like Reddit or SA.

It ignores the cries about highsec wardec griefing and post-gank convo harassment hurting retention, something which tends to affect players worst that are 2-6 months old.

And then to top it all off, he goes and cites a lack of player reports stating that they've quit because of this as a reason to believe it doesn't happen. Because when you rage quit a game, the first thing you do is fill out a survey for them.

Its a bad study, with bad conclusions, and even worse connections being made by the community. You have to be willfully blind or just stupid to not think consistent wardecs on carebear corps doesnt hurt retention of those members, or that someone being humiliated on a blog due to a convo after a gank doesnt ruin their motivation to keep playing.

If Rise did not intend to make this about new player retention on a larger scope, he needs to come out and clarify that, because right now the hive mind of the griefer community has attached this study to thinking there antics dont cause players to quit. Bullshit.


Translation: Even though nearly everyone in the carebear community agrees that endless wardecs and post-gank humiliation hurt player retention, they're all wrong and I'm right, because Rise posted a terrible study that doesn't address the players actually affected by wardecs and post-gank humiliation. Also, anecdotal evidence doesnt matter unless its when players fill out a survey about why they quit, and only then if it supports my initial bias.

Time to bring back high sec awoxing.

Oddly enough, it never actually left. It's just that the risk averse all moved in to CODE corps once CCP deemed Awoxing should have some mild consequences along with a little effort to accomplish.

Mr Epeen

Extrapolation is extrapolation, no matter who does it.

Unless there is a validated basis to extrapolate, doing so is always dangerous.

Saying extrapolation is not happening doesn't make any sense.


Wrong.

In the absence of the supporting data, it doesn't matter what I think. I can think whatever I like and imagine it to be true, but that doesn't make it true.

So you can think someone else is willfully blind or stupid because they don't share your view on things. Again, just because that's what you think, it doesn't make it true.


BS he does. He isn't the one that has tried to imagine that this is somehow wrong because it doesn't reinforce and confirm someone else's bias, no matter which side of this endless debate they sit on.

Look who's taking scanty information and running with it like it's a revelation from on high. The most salient point made was (and of course you yourself say you missed this part) there is no conclusive information either way. There is no concrete evidence that "people" (as a category) who quit quit for a reason anyone can state. WHY? (That's just a three letter word, there.) Why? Because they didn't tell anybody and nobody asked them - as a category. Not enough data to claim there's a sample.

YES, SOME of these players who quit have said why. Thousands of people have quit this game. Thousands of people were not asked why they quit. There is no sampling. There is no data. There is no conclusion.

Let that be a lesson to you! Never release a report where no conclusion was reached unless you state right up front, NO CONCLUSION WAS REACHED. It's there in the fine print, but selective reading sort of made it disappear for some,
I guess.

And yet folks have been stating a conclusion ("griefing makes players quit!") for years on this forum. Those of us without the "think of the children" agenda have been saying that for years do, telling people "you have no proof of that". And yet they (erm, YOU) persisted.

So the end result is that their is not enough evidence to draw a conclusion, but the evidence that does exist points in the direction of "griefing/ganking does not cause people to quit".

You can stay in denial all you like, it's your life to waste as you please, but one day you will come to realize that not only where you lying to yourself, but you were lying to yourself over a video game (and if you'll do that over a trivial matter, what does that portend for the rest of your like experiences?).

The report shows nothing about the value of ganking/wardeccs/awoxxing, etc... All these things do is encourage social isolation and boredom in highsec.