EVE General Discussion

Eve Solecist, can you filter that demagogy and complacency acting for a moment ?
The issue here is not to please noobs, but to make them more likely to subscribe and introduce them to pvp and other mechanics.

Sure, there's nothing like going for pvp to learn about pvp but this has a cost for rookies ... Why loosing money in pvp when tutorials gives rewards for pve and that's their first impression in the game. Then they tend to go for carebear missions, not for pvp, as they were misled to think that pve missions will provide safety, modules, ships, skills, isk ....

How about a tutorial that rewards them for going into a noob arena to fight others ? Teaching them that safety doesn't exist, providing them ships, modules, skills, isk so they don't cry when they die ? Now why making a tutorial for pvp when there are corps that train newbies ? Because, it'll be great if it could be their first impression of the game, they could progressively learn what Eve is really about and get over that ridge once and for all.

Any kind of conscious living being can be tamed with rewards anyway. A new player needs to feel that he's winning, that he's the boss at some point or he won't sub.

But why only every six weeks?
What happens the rest of the time?

The Scope Project was some attempt to create a community out of The Scope.

I believe they wanted to teach new players, next to other things.

Last I checked they seemed to be on the failway,
because all that was happening was a constant turnaround.

Roams happened ... that's all I remember.


I really thought you'd know, but maybe it failcascaded already?
Haven't seen anything of their "overlord", forgothisname, for a longer while.

I think there is some potential in that idea, but within the context of the new opportunities system.

A player completing the NPE for the first time, could have an opportunity to mark themselves as available for a pvp opportunity and when another new player does the same, the game matches them up for a duel.

That way, the game doesn't have to remember the state of different players and doesn't force the opportunity on either player. They select it when they want.

There would be issues around timezones, players being logged in, region the players are located in, vets completing the NPE on an alt (not a bad thing anyway), completing the NPE after you've been in the game for a while and probably many more that could be thought of with a few minutes, but these could be managed if this was seen as something good.

The advantage from a new player perspective is that, despite any other pvp encounter in the game, they would have a one-time opportunity to experience pvp when they feel they want to try it. It could be a useful opportunity for that 50% of new players that leave before they ever experience pvp.

The biggest limitation of the idea I can see though is how does that fit into the broader aims of CCP in terms of providing rich, social experiences for new players? If it is simply one solo player duels another solo player and then they each go their own way again, what has been gained in terms of the overall game experience?

There would also be a need to manage the potential expectation following it that pvp only happens when you want it to. That would be a negative outcome from the opportunity if that was the result.

I'm not sure at this point, that much is gained other than a single, isolated, solo encounter.

How can the opportunity be designed to promote both participants into more social play beyond that one encounter?

I can't really think of a way in which the tutorial can overcome that limitation. It can only progress you through things it can quantify, social interaction usually being more difficult in that regard. Honestly I'm still of the opinion that letting veterans initiate contact more easily is the best cure for the social ills plaguing the NPE (For instance, allow veterans into NPC corp chats without abandoning their current corps for recruiting/whatever purposes).

Are you guys confusing Anslo and Scope Works (SWCW) with Vapor Ventrillian? SWCW recently reached 1 trillion ISK destroyed and is part of OE. SWCW was the PVP arm of Scope for a while, and there is a bit of history there. Scope was also much more active at that time.

Vapor seems like he's moved on from his empty promises in the anti-ganking realm to even bigger promises he won't be able to keep with null (of course Vector is Vapor's alt).

In Rise's 2014 presentation, one of the characteristics of the "isolated" players was that they didn't interact with the market very much. Which consistently blows my mind.

I also see a lot of questions on the theme of "I need [skillbook/module/ship], where do I get that?" from brand new players. Reflexively checking the market isn't something they're in the habit of doing.

( I'm not disagreeing with you, these are just some thoughts that came to mind. )


I think you are thinking of Scope Works, run by Anslo, which inexplicably joined TISHU but is now in Overload Everything. The Scope Project was possibly run by Vapor Ventrillian. As far as I know it fizzled out.

beaten to the punch!

There goes Scipio, saying it better than I can. Exactly so. And I feel the same way about people in real life.

Quite possibly - I've never heard of Vapor Ventrillian, and with similar names (Scope Works vs Scope Project) we could each be talking entirely two different people and projects without realizing it.

And good to hear that Scope Works and company are doing well still.

On the subject of trolling, I would hope and believe that the player base at large would generate more good than ill even if it means a few of the most gullible/uninformed become examples for the rest. If that doesn't happen then it means we have a player base that largely lacks concern over molding new blood and keeping them in the game or views that NPE as a gauntlet to weed out the unworthy. Either way the player base can get what it wants out of the NPE and the social aspect is ostensibly solved.

There's this thing called the "help" channel, might be of interest to you.