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JUMP FATIGUE we dont want it any more, please remove from eve!

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Bobbyd
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2015-03-16 23:23:43 UTC
Hello all, Hi I'm outraged with this thing in eve called Jump Fatigue

First off congrats on the working code and the idea was great at first, but I'm sorry to say the news isn't all good.

Game play in eve has changed due to fatigue. I was hoping for a positive change and left feeling the adverse effects and none of the great small fights that we had anticipated,

Please Devs/ISD when you moderate this thread ( I'm sure there are many others like this but your forum search function doesn't work for me to search for them) can you read it and advise what players can do to speak with the Game makers and Designers to have this re-looked at,

I don't want to make a post that is TL:DR for everyone so I'll just list what has been changed for me.

1) Small gang fleets have been reduced, I live in null sec and its a lot of jumps to find good fights (Jumps = Time), we have Jump Bridges in place but most our mates have to high fatigue from CTAs to use the bridge so they stay at home and do not join small fleets,

2) My Black Ops hasn't been used since the fatigue was brought in due to fatigue accumulation on other fleets, I'm finding I'm missing a lot of opportunities to join fleets or other members do not join my fleets due to fatigue. so I'm finding I'm getting a lot less content now.

3) My Titan hasn't logged in for a fleet in months, we used to use for bridging fleets for content now it feels like a wasted asset.

I could go on forever about fatigue but to keep this OP short I'll stop there,

I myself do not like it. my corp mates do not like it, my alliance friends do not like it, my coalition friends do not like it, and my red friends on the other side of eve do not like it, in fact I have not talked with anyone in null sec that supports jump fatigue.

Seems to me the only players that like or have no opinion on the matter either do not use jump drives or have no interest in Null sec.

What I do like is the jump cool down and the range reduction, this has helped in making the map much bigger.Please keep these features as they are working well.

If you live in Null Sec and do not like fatigue please speak up!
Paranoid Loyd
#2 - 2015-03-16 23:25:18 UTC
Sigh

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
NFain
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2015-03-16 23:29:50 UTC
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Sigh

Well, he's not wrong.
Stone Blackheart
Black Dot Inc.
#4 - 2015-03-16 23:34:22 UTC
+1 This crap is bleeding into to areas completely unrelated to the power projection of CAP ships.
ISD LackOfFaith
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#5 - 2015-03-16 23:37:01 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD LackOfFaith
Thread has been moved to Features & Ideas Discussion.

Bobbyd wrote:

Please Devs/ISD when you moderate this thread ( I'm sure there are many others like this but your forum search function doesn't work for me to search for them) can you read it and advise what players can do to speak with the Game makers and Designers to have this re-looked at,

That's what Features & Ideas Discussion is for. Since there are thousands upon thousands of players and only a handful of devs, it is impossible to answer player requests on a one-to-one basis, so using the forums or other social media to float an idea or drum up support for it is the best recourse. Good luck!

ISD LackOfFaith

Captain

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department

I do not respond to Eve Mail or anything other than the forums.
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#6 - 2015-03-16 23:39:03 UTC
What modifications would help? If the fatigue did not last more than a day (so yesterday's CTA did not stop today's roam) would that be sufficient? That way fatigue would still stop people from projecting power across the map in minutes, but you would not have this week long legacy pulling you down.

Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

Frozen fanfiction
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#7 - 2015-03-16 23:40:21 UTC
Speak for yourself.

The Tears Must Flow
Elektrea
Tech Builds
Pandemic Horde
#8 - 2015-03-16 23:41:04 UTC
There has been an increase of capital usage around eve thanks to the changes, don't confuse your alliances ****** positioning and tactics with 'failed' mechanics.
Tappits
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#9 - 2015-03-16 23:41:40 UTC
Fatigue is not too bad.
I would like to see the jump ranges put back to were they were before and fatigue dropped 10-20% to compensate
Vic Jefferson
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#10 - 2015-03-16 23:53:00 UTC
I have had lots of fun with both blops and capitals since the changes. Maybe the numbers need to be tweaked but the concept isn't that terrible. I could see one 'free' jump for blops just to get in position, but honestly you can do like one drop every 30 minutes, which is usually far in excess of what you need given the density of targets, if you 'walk' back to your staging area.

Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X.....XI.....XII?
Reina Xyaer
Tha Lench Mob
#11 - 2015-03-16 23:53:00 UTC
Bobbyd wrote:

1) Small gang fleets have been reduced, I live in null sec and its a lot of jumps to find good fights (Jumps = Time), we have Jump Bridges in place but most our mates have to high fatigue from CTAs to use the bridge so they stay at home and do not join small fleets,


Fatigue doesn't do anything to gate travel, so your small gangs can still jump anywhere they want. Yes it takes longer, but you live deep in 0.0, so you don't get to use bridges to CTA all over this half of the galaxy without the "cooldown" that is Fatigue to delay you from doing that again quickly. If you want small gang fights, but don't want to jump very far, you need to go live somewhere where the fights are close.

Bobbyd wrote:

2) My Black Ops hasn't been used since the fatigue was brought in due to fatigue accumulation on other fleets, I'm finding I'm missing a lot of opportunities to join fleets or other members do not join my fleets due to fatigue. so I'm finding I'm getting a lot less content now.


You make a choice, either go on other fleets and accumulate fatigue, or you don't go on other fleets and use your Black Ops. Maybe your alliance should do less bridging/cyno jumping on "other fleets" to reduce fatigue.

Bobbyd wrote:

3) My Titan hasn't logged in for a fleet in months, we used to use for bridging fleets for content now it feels like a wasted asset.


You said your alliance is bridging all over the place accumulating fatigue, but now you're saying nobody wants to use bridges anymore because of fatigue. Which is it? Use your Titan for combat instead! Hunt carriers!
Aiyshimin
Shiva Furnace
#12 - 2015-03-16 23:56:30 UTC
-1

fatigue was necessary to make the game function again, if you have a problem with fatigue, do like normal rational people and jump less.

Rawketsled
Generic Corp Name
#13 - 2015-03-17 00:19:10 UTC
The problem isn't fatigue.


The problem is blues. You have too many of them. That's your leadership's fault, not CCP's. Get rid of your blues.

Suddenly: valid targets everywhere!
Lugh Crow-Slave
#14 - 2015-03-17 01:00:15 UTC
sounds like your problem is blues not Jump fatigue


its been great for small fleet fights in lows and us little guys can even use caps again for fights and even FW



I find i use my blops even more now that i have more range and the fatigue hardly gets noticed since timers are relatively short and out fatigue is gone by the next time we fleet up (1-2 days) so we can start fresh.

Only thing jump fatigue has changed with blops is I can no longer jump in with the fleet and if it goes to **** fire off a few cap boosters use a ECM burst and jump out now i have to commit to the fight for at least a few minuts.



so in short Jump fatigue is great if you can't find fights un-blue some people or head to low


and yeah i guess your titan isn't as useful but that's a small price to pay for something that improves the game for the majority even if the minority are inconvenienced by it


now there is one problem that may not have been intended and that's CCP wanted to help LS industry by making it the place to build capitals but the limited jump range means everyone builds theirs locally killing the market in many places (not a single one being sold in lone treck and this used to be a prime place to buy) but local industry is not a bad thing and this has forced more player interaction causing buys to request ships to be built by builders rather than just listing buy/sell orders that can go months w/o being filled

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Bobbyd
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2015-03-17 01:00:50 UTC
Aiyshimin wrote:
-1

fatigue was necessary to make the game function again, if you have a problem with fatigue, do like normal rational people and jump less.



I think that's the issue here, fatigue was supposed to make the game functional again, I look at the sov map and its still looks to me like 2 coalitions hold most of sov split almost 50/50. to many blues is an issue in its self,
http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/Verite/influence.png

In stead of fatigue opening up opportunities I feel its limiting them, making us choose this fleet or that one but cannot do both,

Null sec is large and if you choose to live in a remote location you may find its going to take a lot of jumps to find the fun fights, now fatigue doesn't limit gate use but time to get to a system is considered by players when joining fleets, all so this will impact the choice of ships to use due to travel time. Jump drives opened up opportunities to use slower and more diverse fleet comps. Sure you could just go live in Low Sec Or NPC Null Sec but that would mean leaving your friends and social community that keeps you logging into eve.

I talk with many people on TeamSpeak in different Alliances about the Jump Fatigue, and the general feedback is that its had adverse effects on their game play and only a handful have given positive feedback but suggested an adjustment to the fatigue multiplier.

I do not enjoy blobs or power projection but surly there is a better way to combat this than Jump Fatigue.
Sougiro Seta
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Pandemic Horde
#16 - 2015-03-17 01:22:11 UTC
Fatigue is a good concept with ******** numbers.

Something meant to be a power projection nerf turned into gameplay projection nerf. As with every single change lately, CCP goes from one point to the most radical opposite instead of trying to reach an equilibrium.

It was bad for the game that you could get from Paragon Soul to Venal in <1h, but it's also bad if it takes 2 weeks.

PD: twisting statistics to show whatever you want to show works in rl politics, where the majority of the population has the average iq of a lovely cat. Saying capital ships use has been increased makes me laugh so hard that i've no words to describe my feelings. Probably they're measuring it by capital ships jumps through gates pre and post Phoebe \o/
Dradis Aulmais
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2015-03-17 01:23:53 UTC
First off you say we are tired of it who's this we? I love the fatigue

Your alliance sucks blues everywhere

Join PFR and learns how null should be run. Or wait a bit till sov changes and a Freeport may come to you.

Dradis Aulmais, Federal Attorney Number 54896

Free The Scope Three
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#18 - 2015-03-17 01:30:17 UTC
Disclaimer first.
I am not a cap ship pilot, never have been and likely never will be. I only spent a brief period in nul sec with another character long before the jump fatigue thing. And my only experience with jump fatigue is that of the cap ship pilots in the low sec corp one of my characters is in so I have very little first hand knowledge. Please remember these things as you read what follows.

Jump fatigue was the FIRST phase in a plan to revitalize 0.0 space.
Phase 2 of that plan is scheduled for the summer release in June and if I remember correctly there are more changes to follow.
Don't you think it wise to wait until the entire plan has been implemented BEFORE you start to call for the removal of the only portion that has been implemented so far?

Bobbyd wrote:
3) My Titan hasn't logged in for a fleet in months, we used to use for bridging fleets for content now it feels like a wasted asset.

Just a wild and crazy thought process here, perhaps that was the intention of this, to limit the use of jump bridges as a means of limiting force projection.
If your Titan has not flown in anger for months then perhaps it needs to be moved closer the where there are fights instead of being a wasted asset sitting safely deep in your own territory.

You stated that CCP should keep jump limits but get rid of jump fatigue.
The calm, logical and rational side of me says that removing jump fatigue means the limits on jump range are essentially worthless as you simply make multiple jumps.
Rawketsled
Generic Corp Name
#19 - 2015-03-17 01:38:45 UTC
The alternative is to nerf the ever loving **** out of cynos. In fact, I'm still in favour of this.

Cynos are press-button-tab-to-main-come-back-in-ten. The module needs to demand more attention from the pilot because currently they currently easier to AFK than mining. If CCP changed that instead of the Jump Drive, then it might have the same projection nerfs without annoying so many titan pilots.
Bobbyd
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2015-03-17 01:54:52 UTC
Rawketsled wrote:
The alternative is to nerf the ever loving **** out of cynos. In fact, I'm still in favour of this.

Cynos are press-button-tab-to-main-come-back-in-ten. The module needs to demand more attention from the pilot because currently they currently easier to AFK than mining. If CCP changed that instead of the Jump Drive, then it might have the same projection nerfs without annoying so many titan pilots.



like limiting Cynos to an Alliance only, or if the corp is not in an Alliance corp only. this would reduce force projection,
also the reduction in jump range and the jump cool down increases travel time to reduce force projection. the cool down could be equal to the cyno burn time, ie; 10 min for T1 cyno, 5 min for recon cynos, 1 min for covert and so on.

I know Cyno beacons on starbases are only for alliance. the code for this is already in place. maybe a better possibility, AFK cloakers would have to be in the Alliance or corp that plans to cyno in, no more hiding in NPC corps for hot droppers?
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