EVE New Citizens Q&A

It's called market PvP. Is fun



ftfy

I honestly don't get what he's complaining about. It's like he was expecting gankers to be vicious and rude, and is disappointed that they were friendly. And something about veterans. I've never heard newbies complain that the veterans in EVE aren't bitter enough.

"people who had camped me based solely on my account age (I asked) in .7 space during off-peak hours when it was just me and them in system"

I find this incredibly unlikely, people don't just camp new players for absolutely no reason. Whether or not you think you provoked them into doing it, I can almost guarantee you did something to set them off. Either by just whining in some chat channel or mining continuously for hours on end, you must have done SOMETHING for someone to pay attention to you like that.

"You can rationalize and put it in real world terms (e.g. exploiting the naive/inexperienced), but when I combined those experiences, the role of new players as fodder, AND Black Drake's comment that the best I could do is, essentially, continue training and learning (e.g. become a vet), led me to the conclusion that this is a game for vets."

I find this statement utterly ridiculous. In what facet of any part of life will you be just able to jump in and instantly become experienced and knowledgeable (aka a vet)? A new player doesn't have to be fodder, you quite as easily take a role away from the front line of combat (hint: ewar/logistics) and be a force multiplier for your fleet.

The best you can do is about 10% related to your skillpoints, 40% related to your experience and 50% to how motivated you are. Being positive and always going for higher goals is how you win EVE.

This game houses vets, but it is by far a game tailored purely for them, as with any game.

"And from this I concluded that if I was 'underwhelmed' as a newbie, that it would be foolish to pour additional time into it hoping for a different outcome when I have so little invested from the outset. This isn't a financial investment. Playing a game with the hope that I will enjoy it at some point, or will have the opportunity to become the ganker, doesn't make sense to me. That's the perspective of a new player looking forward and not a vet reflecting on or justifying the investments already made (sunk cost trap). "

You're looking for instant gratification, that's something you won't find here. EVE is about patience and strategy and when all of that pays off the massive high you get off it.

I've played a fair share of multiplayer games and in almost all of them dove heavily into PvP, never have I experienced the adrenaline rush that EVE brings with it's pvp and it's not faded over the years because I find myself in new situations every day.

"For all I know, the game is better is off without players like myself. There was a lot of humility and self-reflection in that longer post, but, when I reached my conclusion, there was no point in drawing it out further. I didn't come here looking to be convinced either way."

Don't think like that, the game will always be better if you are in it, but only IF you're willing to play it.

"Being the new player being ganked by someone, then having them want to chat and friendly is REALLY disconcerting. It forces a LOT of consideration about how people consider this game. Ganking and griefing that might be born of real animosity in other games, is just a passing amusement here with no ill will intended."

This is the very nature of EVE. People build stuff so they can eventually explode. EVE at it's very essence is about one player taking the toys of another player away in limitless and creative ways. When something truly amazing happens: we applaud them for it, no matter how much the victim suffers.

You're used to being ganked in other games and being called a scrub. In EVE you get oneshot by some 10 year vet and he offers to teach you on how to last 1 second longer the next time. By the time you've blown up 100 times, you're on par with some of the more experienced pilots and the only direction is up from there.

"The reason I'm responding to your post in particular, despite a decision to discontinue, is I want to ask you to take it easier on new players. You accused me of self-fulfilling prophecy and confirmation-seeking, and I kindly submit that you did the same to me ("look who didn't take this seriously from the start. They/we were right all along.") It's not that I was looking to have my suspicions confirmed. I simply reached a conclusion through my response, and mistakenly attributed it to Black Drake instead of the thoughts her post inspired. You don't have to agree with my conclusion, you're certainly free to conclude that I don't 'get it', but don't write us off so easily."

You get what you put in. You put in a lot of negatives and the whole tone of your original post had little to none of the desire to continue playing and that's what we responded with. If you had come into the forums with a simple of a question as: "how do i stop being killed in high sec?", I'm pretty sure a lot of the e-white knights around here would have dedicated a whole day in defending you in space and teach you about instant undocks.

You presented yourself with a closed mind and the responses were appropriate.

I thumbsed-up your post because I agree with it over all. However in response to this I do think that many other video games do coddle players and hold their hand and walk them through content. Also many other games have a very limited interaction that is easy to "balance" and therefore easy to come up with the best win formula of any given circumstance. So a player can go read up on their "class" and then be very effective in a short amount of time also without having to figure it out for themselves.

Also in many other games it's often easy enough to get some kills even if they are fewer than your deaths you can get some. Also they log more stats so even if your team does not win you can find a way to make your self feel like you were carrying everyone else and the loss was not your fault.

In eve you have to figure out your own play style. You can't go to some website and spend a half hour reading and then go win in game. You have to play around with eve and find your place. Also a loss in eve is much more than just a run back from the graveyard.

So I would say in many ways Eve is not new player friendly in the sense that they don't hold your hand and walk you through stuff. However we have the helpful community to balance that out. So you either like a challenging game that forces you to play with others. One that you'll still be learning stuff in game years down the road or you'll write a post like the OP did and go back to team umizoomi dot com.

TL;dr
I guess I could have just said hello kitty island adventure or team umizoomi dot com and left it at that.

And Black Drake is wrong on so many fronts that I wont even list them all.

I still love that



Newbies always complain "but vets" totally forgetting that vets were newbies once too. And they stuck through it to become vets.

And yes, compared to some, im just a kid In game with my 2010 date of birth.

J'Poll I respect you and everyone else that sacrifices their free time to help people out (regardless of how) but you totally misunderstood what I was saying.

Firstly, answering questions on the forum/help channel is completely different than taking someone under your wing and showing them in real time what to do/how to do it over a period of time.

That's not to say forum posts and chat channels are useless (otherwise I wouldn't suggest the OP to keep reading and asking questions there) but remember, a forum post doesn't disappear and can be read by multiple people even if the OP vanishes.

Whereas, if you were to train someone 1 to 1 intensely and they vanish after week 2 you wasted that time and no one else benefited. So as to vet's not wanting to waste their time, I mean it in a more intensive sense of training. Newcomers will find plenty of help if not an abundance of help in getting questions answered on the forums and help channels but when it comes down to it, if a 1 day old character asks a Vet to teach him everything he knows and wants him to commit most of his game time to teaching, well the Vet is going to want to be convinced that the new player is going to stick around. (obviously there are exceptions but why do you think E-Uni's application process is so strict)

I think you misunderstood the "on your own" bit in my post and I knew I should have edited it to be more clear. I didn't mean isolate yourself from everyone and don't ask questions/ask for help (that contradicts with the advice I gave beforehand) what I meant was you have help yourself. Players should be motivated enough to read up on things and ask questions instead of whining about being ganked or whatever other reason there is to whine about.

See what I mean?

And that's great, though the majority of older players just want to get on and play, do their own thing, not dedicate their gaming time to teaching others how to play (which is perfectly acceptable obviously).

You say it yourself here "if I deem it worth my time", fortunately there are players such as yourself who often do see it worth their time because they enjoy helping for the sake of it but I'm sure you can appreciate the quantity of players that don't see it worth their time if they have corps to run or only get to play for x amount of time a week and want to spend that time doing what they enjoy.

I know my OP in this thread sounded harsh but new players such as the OP expecting to get into (decent) corporations right away with no effort and wanting his hand to be held, proceeding to whine about other applicants' whining (seriously wtf) about getting into E-Uni and not liking the " impersonal nature of their program". (again seriously wtf, they are taking their time to help you out and show you the ropes) annoyed me greatly. Take what you can get and appreciate the fact someone is willing to help you at all because they are the ones giving their time to benefit you, something which the majority of players don't want to do or have time for.

con·fir·ma·tion bi·as
noun
the tendency to interpret new evidence as confirmation of one's existing beliefs or theories.




I have a pretty strong passion for this game. Not much skill, but passion. I love sharing it with newbros. I have seen a lot of newbros do more in and with EVE in 3 months than over half the vets I've played with.

I helped some newbies set up a spider tanking RR Domi fleet in only 1.5 months of play.

We have a rather newbro (~6m SP) in my current corp making drugs for huge ISK.

Another newbro friend was in a fleet wtih us. He could only bring a light interceptor frigate as he wanted to specialize in Interceptors. He ended up being the cause of the only kill we got when the enemy fleet ran away and he managed to chase them down and tackle a logi who the gang abandoned, scoring us a 250m kill.

Just today another newbroskii got his first solo kill with a T1 gun/tank fit Incursus against an all T2 fit atron.

I strongly disagree that newbros and newsisters can't help/play/enjoy the game. Avenues of gameplay are closed, yes but there is a place for you so long as you maturity to accept it. You won't be scoring top damage on kills or flying blingy ships only a couple of months in but you don't /need/ to do that.

I thought Black Drake's OP was spot on. Within a few minutes of talking to someone I can make a pretty informed guess about whether or not they're going to stick around and this has a strong impact on how much time I'm willing to invest in them. Sure, I'll spend all day helping out new players on the forums and public chats, but you've got to be a pretty promising newbro for me to drop everything and fly out there to duel you or take you on a roam. I'm also far more likely to give a financial "startup" gift if I feel you're likely to stick around (scammers take note ). It's all about the attitude.

Also, hi Moshi. If you are who I think you may be, then hello again.