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Most overpowered module in the game
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Grimpak
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2011-12-03 14:25:55 UTC
Lunkwill Khashour wrote:
Muad 'dib wrote:
Hey wildcat, its not the drones, its never been the drones.

Its ecm and its "fubar for 20 second effect" the idea to combine that type of chance basied but yet not a ecm burst style but the full 20 seconds to light drones, utterly stupid and totally unballenced.

we are restricted to heavy web drones, yet if we had light versions they would suck anyway because they have stacking penelties - ecm drones get MORE effective *exponentially* the more you have.

That does not make sense, they are overpowered and always have been - thats why EVERYONE with 25 drone space spare always packs some ec-300s. fact.

EDIT: do you think ecm drones would get used at all if they were only available in large?

This.

The other EW drones are subpar since they are stacking penalised. ECM drones aren't.

Giving them a stacking penalty would probably mean that they become as useless as other ECM drones.
IMO they should be able to burst only, not jam.


or, boost the other drones somehow.

[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]

[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right
Valea Silpha
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#22 - 2011-12-03 14:28:26 UTC
I don't think neuting drones stack. I mean, they are terrible, but they don't stack. So that's something...

Yup, I agree that ECM drones are too good, and something should be done. They need to be greatly reduced in effect by ECCM and the chances of each drone jamming shouldn't be separate. No matter how many ecm drones are on you, they should have one chance to jam you every 20 seconds. The more drones, the better chance, but still only one chance. The reason why ECM drones break the ecm formula is that they get 5 chances to jam you every 20 seconds and it only takes one success to jam you. To not be affected by them you need to be lucky every time, they need to be lucky once.

And of course it only get worse with more drones that hit at different times. A lot of the time you aren't truely permajammed, but when you only get 7 seconds unjammed for every 20 seconds you are, its not exactly much different.
Muad 'dib
State War Academy
Caldari State
#23 - 2011-12-03 14:54:59 UTC
the real problem is the fact that more ecm drones on feild means more effectivness.

Just not so for any other ew drone, argue dps over ecm all you want though - ecm are over powered and all over ew drones basicly usless (apart from the usflul but rare EV series)

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m0cking bird
Doomheim
#24 - 2011-12-03 15:18:33 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Spitfire
I use to be against ECM drones (hated them, because they're worse than falcons). Then I started using them. So, now I'm just against ecm drones being used against me. Kinda like my thoughts on logistics, neutraliser's, tracking disruptor's Falcons and Ecm in general.

Also, I'm against solo pilots using alternative characters in engagements and calling it solo.With that said. I've used alternative characters. Ever since I started playing this game. Maybe not solo, which it's not, but for moving ships trading and whatever else I could not do because I had very low security status. I have used characters to scout before, provide gang-links and logistics. BUT!

In my opinion. Using T3 ships with gang-links is as lame as using falcons, and scouting alternative characters while claiming to be solo.

In this game full of *snip* Please keep it civil. Spitfire! Who use ships and modules in annoying ways. Why are something's considered ok (alt in t3 gang-links) and others lame (falcon alt)? Those who lack skill. Tend to find ways to make up for it. Be it alternative characters that use ecm, logistics, or gang-links. Fleets that use logistics, falcons and rely on them. Believing themselves good because of it. Stop complaining.

I lose ships because of myriad of things. I get angry sometimes and I rage. I get over it and move on. I wish I could ask A GOD (CCP) in real life to change all the things that are unfair. Certain things most would consider imbalanced or immoral. You know, stupid sh!t. Deal with it.

How many more things are people going to complain about being overpowered? Seems that any ship, module or ammo used in game by the majority of pilots is considered overpowered.


-proxyyyy
Ariel Dawn
State War Academy
Caldari State
#25 - 2011-12-03 15:21:28 UTC
ECCM modules should provide a tangible benefit to the ship outside of just boosting sensor strength. Perhaps introducing them as sig reduction modules as well; would fit well with interceptors trying to grab Falcons/etc sitting far away, longer lock time on them coupled with boosted sensor str.
Tamiya Sarossa
Resistance is Character Forming
#26 - 2011-12-03 15:29:07 UTC
Stacking nerf their jam strengths, just like ECM should have its jam strengths stacking nerfed. Poblem solved.
Vokradacka
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#27 - 2011-12-03 16:15:41 UTC
Its "easy"
ECM (drones\falcons) need diminishing returns as every other GC in pvp mmo games......

2 posssibilities

1)

-first round of jam normal chance
-second round of jam 60% chance(to jam)
-third ...20%
-4th 0%
+ reset timer after 1-2 mins

2)

-first round of jam 20 secs
-second round of jam 12 secs
-third 6 secs
-4th tero....
+ reset timer after 1-2 mins



chose one
Emperor Salazar
Remote Soviet Industries
Insidious Empire
#28 - 2011-12-03 16:25:40 UTC
Why do you still play this game?
Muad 'dib
State War Academy
Caldari State
#29 - 2011-12-03 16:54:55 UTC
i propose somthing like the following:

Change ecm jam cycle on the dornes to a burst followed by a reduced version of a damp effect on a hit only.

Successful ecm cycle = an instant ecm burst effect then 20 seconds of 50% less scan res, or a stagered effect

Successful ecm cycle = 10 seconds of pure jamming wiht added damp effects

successful ecm cycle = one burst, per drone, whenever the cycle hits (so perhaps multi bursts per 20 sec with sttaggered aggro)

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Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#30 - 2011-12-03 17:19:43 UTC
DHB WildCat wrote:
Also how the hell do "light" ecm drones jam a battleship nearly 70% of their cycles?

They don't.
They jam 20% of the time, or 10% with one ECCM module.
Whereas a flight of light drones will add 100dps against you for 100% of the time.

Nerf damage drones! ZOMG!

But seriously. The people in this thread need to take a look at what "probability" and "confirmation bias" are.

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

Asuka Smith
StarHunt
#31 - 2011-12-03 17:30:21 UTC
The problem with ecm drones is that they didn't feel the recall->relaunch nerf. When your ecm drone misses a cycle simply recall it and launch it again and it'll immediately attempt abother jam cycle. This is why lights seem to punch above their weight and ecm drones all seem op. Fix that and they'll suck. It'll be a stealth nerf to gallente though because outside of the hurricane it's mostly gallente who fight close enough to use that trick.
Asuka Smith
StarHunt
#32 - 2011-12-03 17:30:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Asuka Smith
Dp
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#33 - 2011-12-03 17:36:06 UTC
Buff the other e-war drones to give some variety. Don't nerf the only e-war drones that work. Besides, - they die fast and you're giving up DPS to have them.
Fon Revedhort
Monks of War
#34 - 2011-12-03 18:54:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Fon Revedhort
They aren't any more OP than Falcon and ECM in general.

You claim to be swapping a gun for a smarbomb? So what? I sacrifice tank or DPS for nanos. Looks balanced to me.

Overhaul ECM as a whole or don't touch anything at all. It's really that simple.

"Being supporters of free speech and free and open [CSM] elections... we removed Fon Revedhort from eligibility". CCP, April 2013.
Pulgy
Doomheim
#35 - 2011-12-03 19:34:07 UTC
DHB WildCat wrote:
Nalha Saldana wrote:
ECCM?
Losing mid > losing gun
Also helps vs the falcon :P


If ECCM worked... that would be an option. I've tested a vindi with an ECCM mod and grail implants. Get jammed by falcons about 30% of the time, ecm drones 60%. ECCM doesnt work 8(


Really? my ecm drones never seem to work when I use them.
But you know what they say...
No range? No problem!   Join the Church of the Holy Blaster™ . A Hybrid religion.
Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
#36 - 2011-12-03 20:03:24 UTC
Most op item in Eve: The Suitcase. Damage Controls are easy to fit, easy to train for and has marginal operational costs all in exchange for a staggering bonus to ones tank.

As for ECM drones: They should be lock-breakers rather than jammers. Balances it nicely based on ship size (lockspeed = small hulls, better sensors + slots = bigger hulls).
SpaceSquirrels
#37 - 2011-12-03 20:11:44 UTC
I think the counter mods need to be more effective. Or ECM needs to work more like TDs causes greater chance of missing (even missiles). Or say a mod fails.
Fon Revedhort
Monks of War
#38 - 2011-12-03 20:26:49 UTC
SpaceSquirrels wrote:
I think the counter mods need to be more effective.

No.

Making ECCM *very* effective against ECM will just result in us having yet another mandatory module and give ecm-tards a valid reason to say 'ecm is fine'.
There's already a bunch of stuff each and every ship has to counter somehow and making it so only eccm-fitted ships are playable is just stupid.

"Being supporters of free speech and free and open [CSM] elections... we removed Fon Revedhort from eligibility". CCP, April 2013.
Mfume Apocal
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#39 - 2011-12-03 20:40:07 UTC
Asuka Smith wrote:
The problem with ecm drones is that they didn't feel the recall->relaunch nerf. When your ecm drone misses a cycle simply recall it and launch it again and it'll immediately attempt abother jam cycle. This is why lights seem to punch above their weight and ecm drones all seem op. Fix that and they'll suck. It'll be a stealth nerf to gallente though because outside of the hurricane it's mostly gallente who fight close enough to use that trick.


ECM drones jam at the end of their cycle, not hte beginning.
SpaceSquirrels
#40 - 2011-12-03 20:42:04 UTC
Hmm I figured it was a trade as always. Not jammed, but less tank, speed or DPS... More of the above but get jammed. Seems like a fair trade off.

I think as it stands now people just get butt hurt because fitting one counter mods screws up their WTFUBERPWNMOBILE of dps, and tankiness. Rather use brute force for everything than finesse.

Although perhaps the fleet boosters should be upgraded instead to counter E-war. Therefore instead of per ship boosts your fleet/gang will have a better chance by bring said ship...Just like it's better off bring an ewar boat. Another layer of cat and mouse.