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CCP Fozzie comments on AFK cloaking and nullsec local

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Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#1 - 2015-03-07 05:32:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Zappity
It seems there may be some interesting changes on the way. Here is Fozzie's paraphrased answer when asked about cloaky camping:

CCP Fozzie wrote:
It's very important that it be possible to disrupt peoples' money-making in nullsec, and AFK cloaking is one of the most effective ways. We're not worried about cloaked ships being overpowered because cloaked ships do very little DPS.

But we understand it has a pretty big psychological effect. We would like to make some changes...it may not be the changes people are expecting, though. For instance, I can tell you that AFK cloaking is not an issue in wormhole space and there are pretty good reasons for that.


When later asked whether this meant that local was being removed from null, Fozzie could "neither confirm nor deny".

Solid gold. No doubt it would solve the problem. But I suspect that a few null dwellers would like to see some sort of compensation for the increased risk that a delayed local (or similar, cloak etc) mechanic would represent.

Source: EVE Down Under #97 @ 1h12m. https://m.soundcloud.com/eve-down-under/eve-down-under-episode-97-060315

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
Ren Oren
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2015-03-07 05:40:27 UTC
I say bring on the crazy in null sec, those who can cope will survive, those who can't will see their space fall to the stronger and more vigilant.

Also to all the renters that say eve will die or that null will be empty... please contract your stuff to me
DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#3 - 2015-03-07 05:57:15 UTC
ib4l for roumer mongering.. or redundant

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#4 - 2015-03-07 06:05:55 UTC
Zappity wrote:
It seems there may be some interesting changes on the way. Here is Fozzie's paraphrased answer when asked about cloaky camping:

CCP Fozzie wrote:
It's very important that it be possible to disrupt peoples' money-making in nullsec, and AFK cloaking is one of the most effective ways. We're not worried about cloaked ships being overpowered because cloaked ships do very little DPS.

But we understand it has a pretty big psychological effect. We would like to make some changes...it may not be the changes people are expecting, though. For instance, I can tell you that AFK cloaking is not an issue in wormhole space and there are pretty good reasons for that.


When later asked whether this meant that local was being removed from null, Fozzie could "neither confirm nor deny".

Solid gold. No doubt it would solve the problem. But I suspect that a few null dwellers would like to see some sort of compensation for the increased risk that a delayed local (or similar) mechanic would represent.

Source: EVE Down Under #97 @ 1h12m. https://m.soundcloud.com/eve-down-under/eve-down-under-episode-97-060315



There is a kind of split in the direction of the game. It's apparent. But that's an organization for you and frankly it's clear that Eve Online is not driven by marketers. That's a good thing IMO.

It's an old debate though. Which way will it go? Up whose butt will the fist go? Anybody knows....

(I just had a couple of pints)

Anyway, how will cloaky campers be dealt with? I have experienced cloaky campers myself and I love that kind of player who plexes an account just to camp me because the ISK I was able to make exceeded my losses from when they do strike so I can ignore them.

Will cloaky camping be eliminated or will local be gotten rid of?

THAT

is the question.

Some will say getting rid of local will kill nullsec. I'm not 100 percent sure about it, but I suspect it'll be trouble. Thing is, I have been on the receiving end of local whereby hunters enter a system that I have trespassed into and know they have a potential target there from local. Of course, I also know they are there.

It could also be argued that I would not know they are there without local.

So local in nullsec is a double-edged sword. IMO it gives equal efficiency for hunter and hunted, offender and defender alike.

For that reason, and after seeing countless threads about it, I have drawn this conclusion that the scale is equally treated when an offensive move does not have the same intel as a defensive move.

We'll have to see. Worst that can happen is I lose some space pixels. I have still given away more ISK than I have lost.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Carrie-Anne Moss
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2015-03-07 06:13:26 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Zappity wrote:
It seems there may be some interesting changes on the way. Here is Fozzie's paraphrased answer when asked about cloaky camping:

CCP Fozzie wrote:
It's very important that it be possible to disrupt peoples' money-making in nullsec, and AFK cloaking is one of the most effective ways. We're not worried about cloaked ships being overpowered because cloaked ships do very little DPS.

But we understand it has a pretty big psychological effect. We would like to make some changes...it may not be the changes people are expecting, though. For instance, I can tell you that AFK cloaking is not an issue in wormhole space and there are pretty good reasons for that.


When later asked whether this meant that local was being removed from null, Fozzie could "neither confirm nor deny".

Solid gold. No doubt it would solve the problem. But I suspect that a few null dwellers would like to see some sort of compensation for the increased risk that a delayed local (or similar) mechanic would represent.

Source: EVE Down Under #97 @ 1h12m. https://m.soundcloud.com/eve-down-under/eve-down-under-episode-97-060315



There is a kind of split in the direction of the game. It's apparent. But that's an organization for you and frankly it's clear that Eve Online is not driven by marketers. That's a good thing IMO.

It's an old debate though. Which way will it go? Up whose butt will the fist go? Anybody knows....

(I just had a couple of pints)

Anyway, how will cloaky campers be dealt with? I have experienced cloaky campers myself and I love that kind of player who plexes an account just to camp me because the ISK I was able to make exceeded my losses from when they do strike so I can ignore them.

Will cloaky camping be eliminated or will local be gotten rid of?

THAT

is the question.

Some will say getting rid of local will kill nullsec. I'm not 100 percent sure about it, but I suspect it'll be trouble. Thing is, I have been on the receiving end of local whereby hunters enter a system that I have trespassed into and know they have a potential target there from local. Of course, I also know they are there.

It could also be argued that I would not know they are there without local.

So local in nullsec is a double-edged sword. IMO it gives equal efficiency for hunter and hunted, offender and defender alike.

For that reason, and after seeing countless threads about it, I have drawn this conclusion that the scale is equally treated when an offensive move does not have the same intel as a defensive move.

We'll have to see. Worst that can happen is I lose some space pixels. I have still given away more ISK than I have lost.


Well Wolfe when they remove local from 0.0 like Foozzie basically confirmed similar to POWs blinking morse code, you will lose more like you admit... soooo....

Can you give me some isk so that you cant still say you give away more than you lose? Thanks so much, i will use said isk for nullsec conntent generation also, thanks again, like a few hundred mill will do. Thanks bud.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#6 - 2015-03-07 06:16:35 UTC
Carrie-Anne Moss wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Zappity wrote:
It seems there may be some interesting changes on the way. Here is Fozzie's paraphrased answer when asked about cloaky camping:

CCP Fozzie wrote:
It's very important that it be possible to disrupt peoples' money-making in nullsec, and AFK cloaking is one of the most effective ways. We're not worried about cloaked ships being overpowered because cloaked ships do very little DPS.

But we understand it has a pretty big psychological effect. We would like to make some changes...it may not be the changes people are expecting, though. For instance, I can tell you that AFK cloaking is not an issue in wormhole space and there are pretty good reasons for that.


When later asked whether this meant that local was being removed from null, Fozzie could "neither confirm nor deny".

Solid gold. No doubt it would solve the problem. But I suspect that a few null dwellers would like to see some sort of compensation for the increased risk that a delayed local (or similar) mechanic would represent.

Source: EVE Down Under #97 @ 1h12m. https://m.soundcloud.com/eve-down-under/eve-down-under-episode-97-060315



There is a kind of split in the direction of the game. It's apparent. But that's an organization for you and frankly it's clear that Eve Online is not driven by marketers. That's a good thing IMO.

It's an old debate though. Which way will it go? Up whose butt will the fist go? Anybody knows....

(I just had a couple of pints)

Anyway, how will cloaky campers be dealt with? I have experienced cloaky campers myself and I love that kind of player who plexes an account just to camp me because the ISK I was able to make exceeded my losses from when they do strike so I can ignore them.

Will cloaky camping be eliminated or will local be gotten rid of?

THAT

is the question.

Some will say getting rid of local will kill nullsec. I'm not 100 percent sure about it, but I suspect it'll be trouble. Thing is, I have been on the receiving end of local whereby hunters enter a system that I have trespassed into and know they have a potential target there from local. Of course, I also know they are there.

It could also be argued that I would not know they are there without local.

So local in nullsec is a double-edged sword. IMO it gives equal efficiency for hunter and hunted, offender and defender alike.

For that reason, and after seeing countless threads about it, I have drawn this conclusion that the scale is equally treated when an offensive move does not have the same intel as a defensive move.

We'll have to see. Worst that can happen is I lose some space pixels. I have still given away more ISK than I have lost.


Well Wolfe when they remove local from 0.0 like Foozzie basically confirmed similar to POWs blinking morse code, you will lose more like you admit... soooo....

Can you give me some isk so that you cant still say you give away more than you lose? Thanks so much, i will use said isk for nullsec conntent generation also, thanks again, like a few hundred mill will do. Thanks bud.




Calm down newbie. Leave the paranoia and dislike of Fozzie up to the more experienced players.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Ferni Ka'Nviiou
Doomheim
#7 - 2015-03-07 06:22:00 UTC
CCP Logibrro wrote:
Mongered rumour mongering is gonna rumour monger.

"Can neither confirm nor deny" is not "Yes," and is by default "No" until officially announced.
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#8 - 2015-03-07 06:29:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Zappity
DaReaper wrote:
ib4l for roumer mongering.. or redundant

Might be redundant although I did look for a thread. But it certainly isn't rumour mongering. Everything in the OP is fact. I drew no conclusions on his comments.

Personally I think a local cloak is the most likely. I doubt local will be removed - it would break too many things.

Edit: oh yeah, I see the other thread now. I'm allergic to all capital titles.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
Tuttomenui II
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2015-03-07 06:35:20 UTC
Sounds like they plan on making cloaks remove you from local unless you start chatting it up while cloaked.
Lucretia DeWinter
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2015-03-07 07:22:46 UTC
Fozzie clearly meant that ships that can fit cloaks can no longer fir cynos. Cloaky campers solved. Blink

More likely, the new SOV overhaul will see new structures like Communications Beacon that gives you a localised Local channel when deployed - can be attacked to remove intel from your opponents and prevents blanket knowledge of what's in a system allowing smaller organisations to move around more easily and pirates to maintain 'secret' bases.
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2015-03-07 07:36:20 UTC  |  Edited by: sabre906
The kicker is: nullsec isn't anywhere close to as lucrative as wh space. It's not an issue in wh space because wh space has enough isk to warrant the tradeoff.

Ppl who can cope will go to wh space, where there's no sov bill and isk is aplenty.

Ppl who can't cope will go to highsec.

Nullsec will be depopulated. Good luck trying to convince people to not moving onto greener pasture (whs). With the logistics nerf, deep null dwellers has to scan whs for logistics anyway. If local is the same, anyone with 2 brain cells to rub together will figure out which is the better choice. Why pay sov bills for the same risks, same logistics headache, and less isk?Roll
Varathius
Enlightened Industries
Goonswarm Federation
#12 - 2015-03-07 08:05:08 UTC
as soon as nobody can detect my cloaked ship every time I go take a dump or walk my dog, I don't really care what happens.
Xpaulusx
Naari LLC
#13 - 2015-03-07 09:49:14 UTC
Remove local from Null? Well that means increased risk, they would have to recalculate and raise Rat Bounties, Hubs, Sanctums etc. I don't see that happening.

......................................................
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2015-03-07 10:07:01 UTC
Nothing new here, Fozzie already said in Vegas last year, that they want to replace local with a more active detection mechanism.

I'm my own NPC alt.
Aralyn Cormallen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#15 - 2015-03-07 10:08:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Aralyn Cormallen
sabre906 wrote:
The kicker is: nullsec isn't anywhere close to as lucrative as wh space. It's not an issue in wh space because wh space has enough isk to warrant the tradeoff.


And gates. WH space has the benefit that everyone and his uncle doesn't know exactly how to get to particular wormhole systems at any given time of the day, and exactly how long getting there will take, without extensive research or active searching. If I want to go attack a Wormhole corp today, I have to devote considerable hours trying to find a connection to them, with no guarantee (without enlisting lots of friends to help search) that I'll find a route. If I want to attack a nullsec corp today, I just set autopilot to their staging system and follow the yellow gates; I'll be there before downtime.

Now granted, if these player-made gates that keeps being hinted at allows people to permanently shackle wormholes to known space, then the difference between the systems becomes less, and argueably there isn't much arguement to defend taking away nullsecs main defence if WH spaces main defence is gone. But that seems an odd thing to do, since thats turning two unique types of space and gameplay styles in to functionally the same.
Xpaulusx
Naari LLC
#16 - 2015-03-07 10:16:02 UTC
Tipa Riot wrote:
Nothing new here, Fozzie already said in Vegas last year, that they want to replace local with a more active detection mechanism.

Which means increased risk either way , so he has his work cut out for him.

......................................................
Baneken
Arctic Light Inc.
Arctic Light
#17 - 2015-03-07 10:24:34 UTC
sabre906 wrote:
The kicker is: nullsec isn't anywhere close to as lucrative as wh space. It's not an issue in wh space because wh space has enough isk to warrant the tradeoff.

Ppl who can cope will go to wh space, where there's no sov bill and isk is aplenty.

Ppl who can't cope will go to highsec.

Nullsec will be depopulated. Good luck trying to convince people to not moving onto greener pasture (whs). With the logistics nerf, deep null dwellers has to scan whs for logistics anyway. If local is the same, anyone with 2 brain cells to rub together will figure out which is the better choice. Why pay sov bills for the same risks, same logistics headache, and less isk?Roll


You assume that towers run free ? Or that you don't need TENS of towers to inhabit all the ships in your corp ?

Nope a sov bill in null for a single system is hell a lot cheaper then keeping a C6 in W-space, however on individual player level even the newbs in C6 are rolling in cash though out of necessity since you tend to lose something expensive daily and sometimes even in a row.
If they remove the local then there is significant enough a risk to give incentives for upping the rewards from PvE in null.
Mainly why we in W-space don't give that much an attention to not having a local is because we don't have to worry about having cynos, because unlike cloaked players w-holes can be monitored and scouted and dealt with before the situation explodes on your face.

Most obvious fix for the cloaking issue however would be, just like in other MMO's, an afk-timer that kicks you out after 15mins or so then again in most MMO's you also don't really worry if there is a rogue sneaking about somewhere in the region even on PvP servers.

Fear of losing stuff however is a unique element in EVE, especially in MMO's and down right removal of AFK cloaking by having an AFK timer would definitely remove or dilute that feel of fear and risk from the k-space.
Nalha Saldana
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2015-03-07 10:32:00 UTC
Quote:
We're not worried about cloaked ships being overpowered because cloaked ships do very little DPS.


Since when was the cloaky ship ever the problem, its the cyno.
Primary This Rifter
Mutual Fund of the Something
#19 - 2015-03-07 10:38:50 UTC
Zappity wrote:
Source: EVE Down Under #97 @ 1h12m. https://m.soundcloud.com/eve-down-under/eve-down-under-episode-97-060315

Seriously pissing me off listening to that. How ******* long does it take you to ask "what's CCP doing about cloaking and local?" A full minute apparently.
Primary This Rifter
Mutual Fund of the Something
#20 - 2015-03-07 10:43:10 UTC
And the reason people aren't afraid of AFK cloakers in w-space isn't because there's no local, since not knowing if someone is there results in the default assumption being that someone IS there. The reason is simply because you can't jump to cynos in w-space; literally the only way into the system is through a wormhole.
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