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Petition: Remove Slaves from the SCC Markets.
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Tony-Vagabond Carter
Chrysos Aigis
#21 - 2015-03-07 15:31:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Tony-Vagabond Carter
Signed, with a proposed Amendment:

As such trade IS legal within the bounds of Amarr and related space,
Limit transport contract issuance to authorized Agents only.
That way "Holders" can still transport slaves as needed.

If I refuse to sell you a pie, for the sake of my beliefs or yours.. who really loses out here? Me. I will have lost a sale and possibly future sales, and you will just go to another pie-maker!
Lord Kailethre
Tengoo Uninstallation Service
#22 - 2015-03-07 15:35:24 UTC
U'tah Arareb wrote:
Corraidhin Farsaidh
what part of


Quote:
And to those foreigners who will try to interject here and call for abolition: Don't. If you value the life and health of slaves, don't derail this thread. You would only be weakening this proposal and hurting the very people you want to protect.


did you not understand?



He probably didn't even bother reading it.

Most likely he saw slavery and remove in the same sentence and jumped to the conclusion that it was time for another activist rally.
Albizu Zateki
Doomheim
#23 - 2015-03-07 15:51:45 UTC
NOT SIGNED


The truth of matter is that the Holders see their grasp on the Empire slipping more every day, like sand in a fist. There is no altruism in this petition. There is no honor in supporting it. This is a cry for help from a group of spoiled, self-entitled brats who see other people having fun with their toys.

Less slaves? I say more slaves! With competative pricing! Minmatar would not be worth much. Say, 5 isk for a healthy male. Too much trouble, too much pressure from the Republic. Too willful. Gallente would be slightly higher in cost, but have top prices in the realms of pleasure. Caldari would make the best workers. But the most rotten, demeaning, dangerous and filthy work would be reserved for Amarr. Especially the Holders. They have strayed furthest from God, so their penance must be greatest. That's what I use my Amarr slaves for. And let me tell you friends, you have never heard a man pray more reverently, than when he is first fitted for a shock collar.

There are many who would turn this petition into an abolitionist cause. If you want the Empire to stop slavery, cut off their ability to produce VITOC. 90% of slave owners in the Empire do nothing for the spirtitual well-being of their property. They figure service is enough for their souls. They do not teach. Instead, they pump their cattle full of VITOC poison and reap the benefits of free labor.

There is one constant in this universe. Pain. If you want to stop a slave hound from biting, you inflict pain. If you want the Amarr to stop holding slaves, make the cost of their system too high to afford.





"Bloody Omir's coming back. Monsters from the endless black. Wading through a crimson flood, Omir's come to drink your blood."
Daerrol
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#24 - 2015-03-07 15:52:18 UTC
As if Imperial law extends to us. I find it laughable at people's attempts to dictate what we can and cannot do. As individuals, we should be treated as sovereign entities, peers only to leaders of nations and each other. Amarrian traditions? It baffles me how other capsuleers can cling to these "everyman" issues.
Foley Aberas Jones
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#25 - 2015-03-07 15:52:29 UTC
Frenjo Borkstar wrote:
Not signed.

This is outrageous! If I cannot obtain slaves to use in my experiments and research, then other methods would have to be persued. Methods which I would prefer not to use, but will if necessary.

Still, for the record, this is a bad decision - But only a minor inconvenience to myself.



**** off


If this will stop slaves form getting into this ****'s hands as well as Nauplius, Then i would like to toss my signature in.

Signed
Karmilla Strife
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#26 - 2015-03-07 16:28:06 UTC
Signed
Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#27 - 2015-03-07 16:55:03 UTC
The SCC marketplace is an excellent place to trade slaves, even if it does mean that those not worthy of holding slaves can deal in them.

Therefore, rather than an outright ban I favour an amendment to the SCC's procedures so that undesirables cannot trade in slaves.

Dolce et decorum est pro Imperium mori
Evi Polevhia
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#28 - 2015-03-07 17:39:40 UTC
Inconsequential Lunatics wrote:
Not signed.


No one gives a ****. Crawl back in to your holes.
Foley Aberas Jones
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#29 - 2015-03-07 18:28:59 UTC
Evi Polevhia wrote:
Inconsequential Lunatics wrote:
Not signed.


No one gives a ****. Crawl back in to your holes.



It saddens me that i can only like this post once...God Damn IGS and their limits.....
Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#30 - 2015-03-07 18:33:54 UTC
Rodj Blake wrote:
The SCC marketplace is an excellent place to trade slaves, even if it does mean that those not worthy of holding slaves can deal in them.

Therefore, rather than an outright ban I favour an amendment to the SCC's procedures so that undesirables cannot trade in slaves.


That sounds like the most productive course of action.
Ston Momaki
Disciples of Ston
#31 - 2015-03-07 18:38:05 UTC
Signed

And furthermore... DSTON has pressed for inter-sovereignty agreements granting automatic "Freed Slave" status for all illegally smuggled slaves entering non-slave space. Make slave smuggling unprofitable or nearly so. In other words, put DSTON out of business. Make the deathcan a thing of the past. The SCC could easily make all slaves "unsaleable" in non-slave space. It jsut needs to be done.

The Disciples of Ston bid you peace
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#32 - 2015-03-07 18:55:18 UTC
U'tah Arareb wrote:
Corraidhin Farsaidh
what part of


Quote:
And to those foreigners who will try to interject here and call for abolition: Don't. If you value the life and health of slaves, don't derail this thread. You would only be weakening this proposal and hurting the very people you want to protect.


did you not understand?


The part where people believe that slavery is good for the life and health of those who suffer it. I'm thinking if you offered the slaves freedom and a life where they can make their own way they would be somewhat happier with their lives.
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#33 - 2015-03-07 19:03:01 UTC
Lord Kailethre wrote:
U'tah Arareb wrote:
Corraidhin Farsaidh
what part of


Quote:
And to those foreigners who will try to interject here and call for abolition: Don't. If you value the life and health of slaves, don't derail this thread. You would only be weakening this proposal and hurting the very people you want to protect.


did you not understand?



He probably didn't even bother reading it.

Most likely he saw slavery and remove in the same sentence and jumped to the conclusion that it was time for another activist rally.


Actually I did read it all. The fact that I detest such a practice has nothing to do with reading comprehension and everything to do with believing that all have the right to live free.
Alizebeth Amalath
Doomheim
#34 - 2015-03-07 19:16:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Alizebeth Amalath
Thank you, Samira, for your words in support. I don't think that I could have said it better myself.

Rodj Blake wrote:
The SCC marketplace is an excellent place to trade slaves, even if it does mean that those not worthy of holding slaves can deal in them.

Therefore, rather than an outright ban I favour an amendment to the SCC's procedures so that undesirables cannot trade in slaves.

For holders there are much better markets than the SCC market.
However, this petition is only calling for a cessation of sell orders from Imperial, Khanid and Mandate agencies. The transport of slaves (on agent work, for example) would still be legal. The buy orders by the various agencies and powers should stay in place as well, as a way for capsuleers that acquire slaves (from death cans, wrecks or otherwise) to place them back in the Imperial system where they can be properly Reclaimed.
Kalaratiri
Full Broadside
Deepwater Hooligans
#35 - 2015-03-07 19:32:13 UTC
Hmm.

Signed.

She's mad but she's magic, there's no lie in her fire.

This is possibly one of the worst threads in the history of these forums.  - CCP Falcon

I don't remember when last time you said something that wasn't either dumb or absurd. - Diana Kim
Foley Aberas Jones
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#36 - 2015-03-07 19:49:27 UTC
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
U'tah Arareb wrote:
Corraidhin Farsaidh
what part of


Quote:
And to those foreigners who will try to interject here and call for abolition: Don't. If you value the life and health of slaves, don't derail this thread. You would only be weakening this proposal and hurting the very people you want to protect.


did you not understand?


The part where people believe that slavery is good for the life and health of those who suffer it. I'm thinking if you offered the slaves freedom and a life where they can make their own way they would be somewhat happier with their lives.


Dude i don't believe slavery is good either ..i personally dislike it...but we cant just immediately abolish it...If **** was that easy then we wouldn't even be discussing this...

what we can do is try to improve their lifestyle by leaving them to the care of...somewhat more responsible holders rather than batshit insane capsuleers that don't follow certain guidelines that holders sometimes do......Did you not see Nauplius' thread were he just bought and wiped out a small city population worth of slaves? I take it you didn't

But if you truly cared about the slaves you would sign the petition so we can prevent **** like that from happening again
Samira Kernher
Cail Avetatu
#37 - 2015-03-07 20:03:33 UTC
There isn't any need to argue with Mr. Farsaidh. He's stated his opinion and that is enough that needs to be said on either side. If he does not wish to sign the petition then he does not have to.


Thank you to everyone that has voiced your support.
ValentinaDLM
SoE Roughriders
Electus Matari
#38 - 2015-03-07 20:20:45 UTC
I am torn, there are capsuleers who take advantage of the SCC markets to purchase them and then Smuggle them away from thier life of slavery. I don't care about what rights holders have but, I do find myself caring much more what happens to slaves, especially Matari ones.

I would be willing to sign off on this if I could be sure it was the right thing to do, but as of now I am not so sure. I have after all bought thousands of slaves from the SCC market to relocate them to Stain where thry could live happy lives.
Alizebeth Amalath
Doomheim
#39 - 2015-03-07 20:36:05 UTC
It seems like the Sani Sabik and Sansha supporters have made my argument for me.
Makoto Priano
Kirkinen-Arataka Transhuman Zenith Consulting Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#40 - 2015-03-07 20:38:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Makoto Priano
Consider it signed.

While slavery in and of itself is not an institution I'm fond of, I can understand it and support it in this context: that a master or lord improves the lives of those beneath him, by virtue of education, right action, and obligation. Uplift is a noble thing, and the institution has value only insofar as it allows uplift.

Clearly, capsuleers are not well-suited to such a noble purpose, as we see with that cracked facsimile of an experimenter, Borkstar, or that blood-soaked madman, Nauplius, or that vacant-eyed minion of Sansha, Valentina.

Slaves should be held only by those who are indeed able to fulfill their duty to lift them up.

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