These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Missions & Complexes

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Wealth per hour comparison- Need Info

Author
Market McSelling Alt
Doomheim
#41 - 2015-03-08 01:13:45 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Market McSelling Alt wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
“We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a ****-ton… in null sec anomalies. “ - See more at: http://evenews24.com/2015/03/07/eve-2-0-an-economy-of-violence/#sthash.sFkMg872.dpuf


So there's that.. Nice stealth "nerf hi sec" thread.



Yay, someone else who isn't interested in the truth.



Stop that, I almost choked on my own spit. You're hilarious

CCP Quant: Of all those who logon in Eve, 1.5% do Incursions, 13.8% PVP and 19.2% run Missions while 22.4% mine.

40.7% Join a fleet. The idea that Eve is a PVP game is false, the social fabric is in Missions and Mining.

Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
Pandemic Horde
#42 - 2015-03-08 01:23:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Market McSelling Alt wrote:


Stop that, I almost choked on my own spit. You're hilarious


You can laugh all you want, but not being able to admit the truth about a trivial video game situation says something about a poster.

I don't get why you deniers are so afraid of the situation. And at the end of the day, I don't care if ccp doesn't fix it, I've got an alt for high sec missions, 1 in FW that flies a purifier and one in low sec with 3 carriers (one in the system with the agent and the other 2 docked in adjacent systems, and I have high enough standings to just decline the missions not in those systems, or that have gates).

But you'd think that everyone would want CCP to correct an imbalance that exists because imbalances hurt everyone in a game as interconnected as this (for example, all the null guy mission alts doing missions lower the value of everyone else's LP). But hey, just keep being so intensely short sighted that you don't realize it's you getting screwed, I'll keep raking in the isk from the imbalances you refuse to acknowledge.
Market McSelling Alt
Doomheim
#43 - 2015-03-08 01:37:58 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Market McSelling Alt wrote:


Stop that, I almost choked on my own spit. You're hilarious


You can laugh all you want, but not being able to admit the truth about a trivial video game situation says something about a poster.

I don't get why you deniers are so afraid of the situation. And at the end of the day, I don't care if ccp doesn't fix it, I've got an alt for high sec missions, 1 in FW that flies a purifier and one in low sec with 3 carriers (one in the system with the agent and the other 2 docked in adjacent systems, and I have high enough standings to just decline the missions not in those systems, or that have gates).

But you'd think that everyone would want CCP to correct an imbalance that exists because imbalances hurt everyone in a game as interconnected as this (for example, all the null guy mission alts doing missions lower the value of everyone else's LP). But hey, just keep being so intensely short sighted that you don't realize it's you getting screwed, I'll keep raking in the isk from the imbalances you refuse to acknowledge.


But yet you lack even one example, even one piece of evidence on how CCP is wrong, how all that have shown Null makes massive isk is wrong. You run right to the "liar" offense every time.

Curious

CCP Quant: Of all those who logon in Eve, 1.5% do Incursions, 13.8% PVP and 19.2% run Missions while 22.4% mine.

40.7% Join a fleet. The idea that Eve is a PVP game is false, the social fabric is in Missions and Mining.

Mr Omniblivion
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#44 - 2015-03-08 02:04:23 UTC
Market McSelling Alt wrote:
But yet you lack even one example, even one piece of evidence on how CCP is wrong, how all that have shown Null makes massive isk is wrong. You run right to the "liar" offense every time.

Curious


My question would be if you understand how wealth is calculated instead of just raw isk. Of course the null opportunities make the most cash isk by themselves, but then how do you quantify LP or raw materials?

ISK is just one form of currency, as is LP or even materials (assuming a barter system).

Are you suggesting that Steve Jobs was poor because he only had a $1 salary per year? What about his billions of stock options? You're basically looking only at the $1 (ISK equivalent) that he made and completely ignoring the Stock Options (LP/Materials) that was also subsequently earned.

That is the concern here. CCP is looking solely at the ISK acquisition and completely disregarding the other types of currency that are being gained elsewhere.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
Pandemic Horde
#45 - 2015-03-08 02:42:12 UTC
Market McSelling Alt wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Market McSelling Alt wrote:


Stop that, I almost choked on my own spit. You're hilarious


You can laugh all you want, but not being able to admit the truth about a trivial video game situation says something about a poster.

I don't get why you deniers are so afraid of the situation. And at the end of the day, I don't care if ccp doesn't fix it, I've got an alt for high sec missions, 1 in FW that flies a purifier and one in low sec with 3 carriers (one in the system with the agent and the other 2 docked in adjacent systems, and I have high enough standings to just decline the missions not in those systems, or that have gates).

But you'd think that everyone would want CCP to correct an imbalance that exists because imbalances hurt everyone in a game as interconnected as this (for example, all the null guy mission alts doing missions lower the value of everyone else's LP). But hey, just keep being so intensely short sighted that you don't realize it's you getting screwed, I'll keep raking in the isk from the imbalances you refuse to acknowledge.


But yet you lack even one example, even one piece of evidence on how CCP is wrong, how all that have shown Null makes massive isk is wrong. You run right to the "liar" offense every time.

Curious

Call em like I see em.

And one example? Have you looked at a map of null lately, noticed how it's mostly renters? Did you miss this?.

I play this game every night, PVEing across New Eden, and I've seen (and adapted to) the gross imbalances that exist. I SEE how CCP got it wrong in the past (and seem poised to get it wrong again in the near future). And yet rather than an intelligent player base who pve's like me informing CCP of the problems (problems that distort their EVERY attempt to improve game play, see the dev blog I just linked and review the last 4 years of null sec), you get the "Market McSelling Alt" style of hurf blurf.

Oh well, gotta go, this 3 million Federation Customs LP I got from doing ONE NIGHT of l5 missions isn't going to sell itself.


Aplysia Vejun
Children of Agasul
#46 - 2015-03-08 19:01:03 UTC
Mr Omniblivion wrote:
Aplysia Vejun wrote:
Lowsec combat exploration : extreme variation. From 40mio (mostly bounties) up to 2bio a site. All in all around 120 mio per hour


Do you have any data to back up that estimated hourly income rate? That sounds a bit high from my exploration experience in null (yes, I have done a lot of exploration personally in null while doing spacejob things)

I've made all my 40-50 billions last year with combat exploration. I prefer lowsec: MUCH less BS to per site and nearly as good payout as a nullsec-combat-site. In nullsec i'm only doing serpentis 10/10 - all other just take too long in a solo ishtar.

Yes, 120mio per hour seems about right. (and in blood raider territory there are always enough 5/10 or, better, 6/10 sites.)
Mr Omniblivion
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#47 - 2015-03-08 22:25:28 UTC
Thank you for getting back to me on that. I will add combat exploration as a separate activity, because I can see how that can make a decent chunk of ISK per hour.
Sweet Adamas
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#48 - 2015-03-09 18:11:16 UTC
Mr Omniblivion wrote:
Hellois Dawn wrote:
Im sure that posts like this are designed to make everyone feel inadequate.

I can make 1.5 Billion in an hour and 15 minutes when im good.

But most of my time im scanning or being scanned or im running. Plus i have 6 billion isk on the line at all times.




While that figure is attainable at some points, I doubt that you are able to consistently do that. Thus, the hourly averages I posted were more of an average value over time, considering the work that must be done to secure your holes and actually get those sites.



Exactly as i stated. Most of my time is spending doing everything else plus if i lose i lose a lot
Drogo Drogos
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#49 - 2015-03-11 08:11:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Drogo Drogos
I dont understand how Fozzy can say Nullsec income is fine compared to other sources of income were risk is minimized or can be managed.

Hisec is the safest of them all

Lowsec abit more dangerous

Nullsec - with no local incomming will become the most dangerous as you can cynodrop / blackops drops / fleet roams day in day out / lone campers and gankers 24/7 in your space.

Wormholes are mostly done with groups so there are safety in numbers for C4 and up + you cannot use cyno's and you have vision if a new sig spawns up to see of you get new neighbours.


Is CCP truely this blind to see a average anom in a 0.40 / 0.30 system as one of the best income recources in Eve ?
With all the risk that is going to be added and the value of these common low security systems i cannot see why they should be buffed to Wormhole levels of income.

Let it be group based for all i care so we nullsec players also have a option to socialise with each other to make decent isk.
If these changes go trough in the current state of how anoms work and no local you will lose ratting ships day in day out.

Like other people said, why even bother when you can make better isk almost risk free elsewhere.
Dont forget that a good system can only support a handfull of players before you bump into each other constandly.

Many players like me who love to balance their pvp with ratting income to buy more shineys are going to get shafted with the most risk eve has for medium to low isk income.

And all CCP Fozzy said is that Nullsec players are making fctons of isk -_-
Anthar Thebess
#50 - 2015-03-11 09:01:00 UTC
Nullsec missions are giving less isk this days.
Probably due to overarming lvl 5 missions in lowsec.
Most of the income was coming from tags, that have lost sometimes 50% of their value.

You need to also include the delay you are getting this isk.
For example :
- anom ratting gives you isk almost instantly
- missions only when you move stuff to higsec ( sadly dropped tags have no use locally )
Aplysia Vejun
Children of Agasul
#51 - 2015-03-11 11:59:40 UTC
Drogo Drogos wrote:


Nullsec - with no local incomming will become the most dangerous as you can cynodrop / blackops drops / fleet roams day in day out / lone campers and gankers 24/7 in your space.

-

Noone said anything about removing local from nullsec. And yes, lowsec is more dagerous than nullsec.
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome
Awesome Alliance
#52 - 2015-03-12 01:44:19 UTC
In FW at Teir 4 you can do 600-800mil an hour blitzing a combination of Lev 3 & 4 missions.

Sequester Risalo
German Corps of Engineers 17
Federation of Respect Honor Passion Alliance.
#53 - 2015-03-12 14:18:11 UTC
Mr Omniblivion wrote:


Wormholes
C6 sites*: 400+ mil per hour. Varies wildly requiring escalations, etc.
C5 sites*: 200-400+mil per hour. Requires finding appropriate sites and a hole out of your staging.
C3/C4 sites*: 100-300+mil per hour. See above
C2/C1 sites*: Roughly nullsec income, better to do c3+
Data/Relic sites*: 70-200 mil per hour. Varies wildly depending on luck.
Gas Mining*: 50-100 mil per hour. Requires appropriate gas sites, gas varies wildly. Can be done in a low skill Venture.
*Note: requires considerable logistics, scouts, etc. Income varies a considerable amount depending on activity and some luck.


It would be greatly appreciated for more lowsec/wh folks to chime in and confirm if those numbers look accurate.


I suggest dividing Exploration and mininng in low class and high class wormholes. Low class has cheaper gas (ca. 20 million/h) but also sleeper free null sec exploration sites. Also you may rethink the asterisk from C1/C2 as you don't need logi there and the sites are mostly done solo.

The ore is like nullsec. Although the asteroids are smaller in low class wormholes there are always abc ores to be found.
Capt Sephiroth
#54 - 2015-03-13 11:27:53 UTC
Drogo Drogos wrote:
I dont understand how Fozzy can say Nullsec income is fine compared to other sources of income were risk is minimized or can be managed.

Hisec is the safest of them all

Lowsec abit more dangerous

Nullsec - with no local incomming will become the most dangerous as you can cynodrop / blackops drops / fleet roams day in day out / lone campers and gankers 24/7 in your space.

Wormholes are mostly done with groups so there are safety in numbers for C4 and up + you cannot use cyno's and you have vision if a new sig spawns up to see of you get new neighbours.


Is CCP truely this blind to see a average anom in a 0.40 / 0.30 system as one of the best income recources in Eve ?
With all the risk that is going to be added and the value of these common low security systems i cannot see why they should be buffed to Wormhole levels of income.

Let it be group based for all i care so we nullsec players also have a option to socialise with each other to make decent isk.
If these changes go trough in the current state of how anoms work and no local you will lose ratting ships day in day out.

Like other people said, why even bother when you can make better isk almost risk free elsewhere.
Dont forget that a good system can only support a handfull of players before you bump into each other constandly.

Many players like me who love to balance their pvp with ratting income to buy more shineys are going to get shafted with the most risk eve has for medium to low isk income.

And all CCP Fozzy said is that Nullsec players are making fctons of isk -_-


For years now hs was not the safest place in eve at all, before the rework of wh spawning sigs (which now have a delay when someone opens a wh into the system you are currently in) they with null sec were the safest places. Wh's cause you could just put scouts on each wh to listen or watch for reactions and having a window open to check for new sigs to scan down and get there asap if it was another wh, null cause of local and blue doughnuts, all you had to do is watch intel channels and local, if anyone that wasnt blue entered all you had to do is god forbid move to a ss or dock back till he/she moved on. Now when they are actually making null sec to have a degree of risk with a DELAYED local you null people start screaming on how its going to be impossible to farm isk there without even considering or thinking on "HEY I CAN FINALLY DO SOME OTHER KIND OF PVP THEN LIKE A MINER PRESSING F1" however considering this is a PVE post that is to be expected. Coming from a member of goons which have a SRP involved in all their bigger fights and having so many moon goo that generates wealth for them that they can comfortably include titans in those SRP's where do you actually spend your isk, buying officer mods to bling out your PVE ship so you fund your alts that live in hs? And that comment where you want to buy shinnies sorry but that comment sounds more like a rich man crying "I cant pimp out my lambo so I can beat that tractor over there in a drift race on an asphalt airstrip".

On a side note nothing ever forbade you of grouping up with other null sec players to do anomalies or missions you might lower your income a bit but you would do them faster no? The thing is that most of you guys went there cause of safety and greed and those master pvp mining like fights.
Organic Lager
Drinking Buddies
#55 - 2015-03-13 14:52:03 UTC
Mr Omniblivion wrote:
Mara Rinn wrote:
Blitzing hisec missions for 120M ISK/hr at 1000 ISK/LP?

I wish to subscribe to your newsletter! The best I can manage is about 100M ISK/hr at 2000 ISK/LP, assuming I don't get distracted with silly things like warping 120AU in Barkrik or jumping an extra two systems over, or having to go pee.


I'm happy to change that if more people confirm that the wealth rate is in fact that low per hour. I did some testing in a not huge level 4 mission area and was able to pull 90-120 an hour over 10 hours. That was in a Tengu. I hear that rattlesnakes are even better at blitzing but didn't test that out.

Edit: before ammo costs, obviously.


You're going to need at least 1800-2000isk/lp to hit 120m. I have a rather large excel to prove it. Ship type will depend on the mission, i use everything from a mwd frig to a marauder.
Mr Omniblivion
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#56 - 2015-03-13 22:29:46 UTC
My sample size was not the largest, so that could explain the isk/hr variance during that 10 hour session.

Would you say 90m/hr is average?
Jonat Eken
T.A.N.S.T.A.A.F.L.
#57 - 2015-03-14 08:28:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonat Eken
Aplysia Vejun wrote:
Drogo Drogos wrote:


Nullsec - with no local incomming will become the most dangerous as you can cynodrop / blackops drops / fleet roams day in day out / lone campers and gankers 24/7 in your space.

-

Noone said anything about removing local from nullsec. And yes, lowsec is more dagerous than nullsec.



CCP Fozzie, on Eve Down Under #97 (link goes to pertinent section): Eve Down Under #97 on Soundcloud heavy hinting.
Syn Shi
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#58 - 2015-03-14 14:54:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Syn Shi
Drogo Drogos wrote:
I dont understand how Fozzy can say Nullsec income is fine compared to other sources of income were risk is minimized or can be managed.

Hisec is the safest of them all

Lowsec abit more dangerous

Nullsec - with no local incomming will become the most dangerous as you can cynodrop / blackops drops / fleet roams day in day out / lone campers and gankers 24/7 in your space.

Wormholes are mostly done with groups so there are safety in numbers for C4 and up + you cannot use cyno's and you have vision if a new sig spawns up to see of you get new neighbours.


Is CCP truely this blind to see a average anom in a 0.40 / 0.30 system as one of the best income recources in Eve ?
With all the risk that is going to be added and the value of these common low security systems i cannot see why they should be buffed to Wormhole levels of income.

Let it be group based for all i care so we nullsec players also have a option to socialise with each other to make decent isk.
If these changes go trough in the current state of how anoms work and no local you will lose ratting ships day in day out.

Like other people said, why even bother when you can make better isk almost risk free elsewhere.
Dont forget that a good system can only support a handfull of players before you bump into each other constandly.

Many players like me who love to balance their pvp with ratting income to buy more shineys are going to get shafted with the most risk eve has for medium to low isk income.

And all CCP Fozzy said is that Nullsec players are making fctons of isk -_-



Out of the left side of their mouths nullbears say its empty an beg others to come play in null.

Out of the right side of their mouths nullbears say they cant make isk in an empty null.

You are a goon, you are too afraid to stray away from the safest space in the game.....the goon blob.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
Pandemic Horde
#59 - 2015-03-14 18:20:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Syn Shi wrote:
Drogo Drogos wrote:
I dont understand how Fozzy can say Nullsec income is fine compared to other sources of income were risk is minimized or can be managed.

Hisec is the safest of them all

Lowsec abit more dangerous

Nullsec - with no local incomming will become the most dangerous as you can cynodrop / blackops drops / fleet roams day in day out / lone campers and gankers 24/7 in your space.

Wormholes are mostly done with groups so there are safety in numbers for C4 and up + you cannot use cyno's and you have vision if a new sig spawns up to see of you get new neighbours.


Is CCP truely this blind to see a average anom in a 0.40 / 0.30 system as one of the best income recources in Eve ?
With all the risk that is going to be added and the value of these common low security systems i cannot see why they should be buffed to Wormhole levels of income.

Let it be group based for all i care so we nullsec players also have a option to socialise with each other to make decent isk.
If these changes go trough in the current state of how anoms work and no local you will lose ratting ships day in day out.

Like other people said, why even bother when you can make better isk almost risk free elsewhere.
Dont forget that a good system can only support a handfull of players before you bump into each other constandly.

Many players like me who love to balance their pvp with ratting income to buy more shineys are going to get shafted with the most risk eve has for medium to low isk income.

And all CCP Fozzy said is that Nullsec players are making fctons of isk -_-



Out of the left side of their mouths nullbears say its empty an beg others to come play in null.

Out of the right side of their mouths nullbears say they cant make isk in an empty null.

You are a goon, you are too afraid to stray away from the safest space in the game.....the goon blob.


Behold the useless and ignorant prejudice that contributes nothing to a discussion at all. Complete with not a scrap of real data.
Capt Sephiroth
#60 - 2015-03-14 19:29:38 UTC
Forgot to mention that best isk/h atm and probably ever will be getting a decently paid job and you get with the current prices 800mil/h+. And spend your in game time actually doing something fun.