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Covert ops cynos in highsec
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Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#21 - 2015-03-04 19:00:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Daichi Yamato
Whilst i had forgotten the stratios, it is not tankier than a covert T3. The covert subsystem comes with absolutely no sacrifice to tank or fitting.

Rivr Luzade wrote:
Bombers insta you every sub-cap ship in the game if there are enough of them and they are tanky enough to withstand a lot of damage if flown correctly.



can you think of a ship that doesnt alpha any subcap in the game if there is enough of them? Velators alpha any ship in the game, including titans, if there are enough of them.

No, bombers are not tanky enough to withstand a lot of damage. They are the fattest, slowest frigs in the game with about as much EHP as an attack frig. If you claim bombers are tanky when properly flown, then so are inties, covert ops frigs and shuttles.


and when it comes to skipping low sec to get to a high sec island: its not like people have trouble getting their covert ops ships through low sec anyways...i mean they have to get another covert ops ship over there by gate to light the cyno in the first place...

Honestly Rivr, you ****** up here.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Arden Elenduil
Unlimited Bear Works
#22 - 2015-03-04 19:34:13 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:

I also recommend to check my killboard first before you question my Bomber experience (Fortunately, you have to do that on your own as we are not allowed to link killmails in this forum. Just a hint, go back to the time from Oct 2013 to Dec 2013). Quite in contrast, I can question your experience with bombers after your statement that torp damage application is terrible on smaller ships. You clearly do not take the huge Ewar utility of bombers into account. Blink.


I went to have a look and see if I could find any bomber based kills. I'm sorry to say that I didn't find any. Granted, it was a rather large amount so I may have missed them. However, I'm curious as to what size of bomber gang you are talking about.

You do have to take into account that 99% of all highsec PvP based corporations field no more than 10 to 15 people at maximum during operations. Notable exceptions are of course RvB and Eve University. However, outside of those you'd be hard pressed to find anyone really capable of reliably fielding 20+ man gangs.
And most of those will fly something else than bombers I reckon.

What I'm foreseeing is highsec blops drops being something that is done by groups of about 10 people at maximum, and this rather rarely. Comparing combat in highsec to the gangs in low/null is something that won't really work.

And concerning the ability for someone in low/null (mainly null) to be able to see who to watch out for. Well, there's enough instances of alts set to blue standing being used as cynos.
Once burned, a character should be easily recognizable, even in highsec local (standings).
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#23 - 2015-03-04 19:41:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Rivr Luzade
@Daichi Roll

You could not bridge 1k Velators onto a target and then vanish into thin air. There is no damage landing on your bombers at all if you land on your target, headshot them and leave. We've done this countless times in Curse in 2013, no ship had a chance if it was solo and even in groups they died. We even managed to murder ships like RLM Cerberus with enough bombers while the bombers were able to tank the Cerb's missiles long enough.

The tank of a Stratios is more than sufficient to tank any incoming damage while it can stay at a suitable range and let it's sentries or Heavy Drones do the work. I trust you have noticed Marmite's, POH's and the like's recent focus on Stratioses with Geckos to kill any opposition? Have 5 of these drop on you and any damage you can field is removed in short order.

It is the point of "going through" low sec to begin with to induce the potential danger. It is also the point of having traffic in Low sec to begin with. People constantly complain about lack of people in Low sec, yet at the same time people want to remove even more of the traffic from there. This potential danger is 100% removed if you can bridge from High to High. Bringing a bridger and a suitable cyno is no hurdle at all. I can do that with my alts already. If you are in a proper corp, you can do it as well.

I do not even care about Newbies, in fact, I couldn't care less about the current most prevalent type of Angry Bird newbies. What I care about are wardecs against all the other entities; what I care about is removed risk and added convenience; what I care about are unique things taken away from Low/Null that removes even more reasons to ever leave High; what I care about is sparing High of a completely ridiculous mechanic that causes constant complaints when it's used in Low/Null; what I care about is this constant hypocrisy of people here.

@Arden Elenduil

Read the mail. You really have to check the months I told you to check. Roll

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Sisohiv
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2015-03-04 19:47:53 UTC
I weighed in on the GD one and still think the whole HS hot drop thing is a red herring.

War Dec is circumvented by assets like me. Additional accounts kept in NPC corporations. That has been the way of EVE since 2003. Anybody that is undocked during a war dec is looking for a fight. If you want to bring T2 hulls, through a gate or through a cyno, they just make better killmails.

I won't play the cloak and dagger game. I have 4 accounts, 12 characters. All 12 can fly either a Prorator or a Viator. 4 can fly, bridge and Cyno black Ops. I know the mechanics inside and out. I would be a liar if I didn't say I was heavily invested and with all that said?

I'm still indifferent to this. I can bridge in from High to null now. Bridging out requires a pit stop in low sec. Remove that pit stop, I won't stop paying attention when I am running the Ops. The bridge in to Null is still the most dangerous aspect. it's not a game changer.
Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#25 - 2015-03-04 21:13:46 UTC
+1 on this for sure: I really don't see much that can be said against it that doesn't have a counterpoint P

(But -1 on the timer: it's a method of transportation, not an illegal act)

Again, +1: I'd like to see this eventually Smile

"A City made of Dreams is built in heaven"
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#26 - 2015-03-04 22:16:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Daichi Yamato
The only traffic lost from low sec is covert ops traffic, the least engaging traffic for low sec inhabitants. Cyno'ing to avoid low sec will still require a ship to travel through low sec in the first place. So even then, there is still traffic. And that is of course assuming the covert ops pilot can be bothered to go through all the mess of setting it up when, he could just travel through gates with the same covert ops and almost guaranteed safety anyways.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Zepheros Naeonis
TinklePee
#27 - 2015-03-05 01:43:42 UTC
I like the idea, but there do not seem to be enough negatives to outweigh the positives. Some have made a good point that it would remove the low sec traffic, but lets be honest, most cov ops travelling in low don't get caught anyways unless they are careless.

Cov ops is my pride and joy in the game, but I can't +1 this without more fleshing out. An automatic suspect flag isn't enough for me to say "sounds fair!".
Arden Elenduil
Unlimited Bear Works
#28 - 2015-03-05 02:55:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Arden Elenduil
Zepheros Naeonis wrote:
I like the idea, but there do not seem to be enough negatives to outweigh the positives. Some have made a good point that it would remove the low sec traffic, but lets be honest, most cov ops travelling in low don't get caught anyways unless they are careless.

Cov ops is my pride and joy in the game, but I can't +1 this without more fleshing out. An automatic suspect flag isn't enough for me to say "sounds fair!".


What would you advise as more of an additional "downside"?
(just to throw a random idea out there, covops cynos can only be lit by a character that is either in your own corp, or a corp that you're at war with in highsec?)
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