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Thoughts from a 2 month Player

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J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#21 - 2015-03-04 06:09:39 UTC  |  Edited by: J'Poll
Kick Axe Blackwing wrote:
Replies:


Quote:
Well, you can do anything, some thing will just be hard. What you are listing are the "easy options" not the 'medium', 'hard', 'ultimate'.


A new player can also:

* Move to null-sec and live there
* Move to low-sec and live there
* Create his own corp
* Start trading
* Start scamming
* Start ganking.
* Start PvPing
* Start exploration
* Move into a WH.


I think your ultimate list of what could be done is not practical for a newer player. Besides you have included the exploits of scamming and ganking. Scamming is just ridiculous where as ganking is often used against new players even in high sec.
These things are examples of actions that have no place in the game IMHO. That would be another post how this game allows ridiculous exploits esp. against new players.



Okay, thanks.


This answer clearly shows you are NOT suited for EVE and that EVE is not the game for you.


A. All of that I listed can be perfectly done by a new player, with the right mindset. Just cause you lack that, doesn't mean it's there.

B. Scamming AND Ganking are both perfectly legal activities and FAR from exploits. But if you are too narrow minded to see that, you shouldn't be playing EVE and should go to "that other game, that shall not be named here".


p.s. Just by this post of yours, consider yourself watchlisted by people.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
Chal0ner
Hideaway Hunters
The Hideaway.
#22 - 2015-03-04 07:46:02 UTC
Kick Axe Blackwing wrote:


I think your ultimate list of what could be done is not practical for a newer player. Besides you have included the exploits of scamming and ganking. Scamming is just ridiculous where as ganking is often used against new players even in high sec.
These things are examples of actions that have no place in the game IMHO. That would be another post how this game allows ridiculous exploits esp. against new players.



No it isn't in Eve. If you want that classified as exploits, go play something else.
Also, I completely fail to see what's wrong with exploration as a newbie career? Or trade.
As Fluffers said - it's about the mentality; if you thnk something is impossible or unfair it sure as hell will be.
Miwako Tani
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#23 - 2015-03-04 07:56:12 UTC
I can never understand why people can't just admit when they've been beat. If someone uses actual game mechanics to rid you of your isks, well, it's not an exploit, it's just, you've been outsmarted by someone who hasn't your moral values.

now they're two ways to go about it

- bi*ch and rant about "exploit" and ask people to improve your (if you're in that case, probably miserable) life
- do something about it, recognize where you failed, and improve as a person


first and foremost, no matter how we flatter our egos about how eve is "not a game", well, sorry to break it to you, it's a game.

a very complex, cool, intelligent, beautiful, poetic game, but a game nonetheless

and when a game stops being fun, well then it's time to turn it off and go do something else with your day. As said by others, eve isn't for anyone.

it's very important to remember that Eve is a game, because it means that no, it's not THAT important that it can ruin your day/week/month/life if you lose something in the game, let it be isks or ships or your pride even.

it's all part of the game, and it does not matter in real life, not at all. We indeed are priviledged beings just for being able to spend the amount of time that we do playing make believe star wars, while -and I know how cliché it sounds- many people, the age of our sons, are actually fighting wars somewhere else on earth, actually losing their homes, loved ones, everything.

So you got scammed of a few million isks and got your BS blown up, boohoo, tough luck. You still can go about your business, and you'll still be fine. it's a game, it doesn't matter.

Now with a good philosophy, you can take stuff out of that game that will help you in real life. Patience, resilience, perseverance, business sense (I wouldn't be a business owner in real life if I hadn't try and succeeded owning a business in SWG back in the days, pre cu).

But as in real life, there will ALWAYS be people out to get your money, your stuff, you can bi*ch and rant, or you can be a philosopher about it, this is who we are as a spiecies, there's not much we can do about it, but be positive and improve. Set an example.

Anyway, new eve player, having a blast hanging out in low sec exploring, I've even been to WH space after a few days only, lost some ships, ended up broke, built up some more isks and went on.

it's a good game, but if you're used to being entitled, of what you think is "fair", well, maybe you're in for a great disappointment.


much love to yall <3
Kick Axe Blackwing
EVE University
Ivy League
#24 - 2015-03-04 17:33:42 UTC
Miwako Tani wrote:
I can never understand why people can't just admit when they've been beat. If someone uses actual game mechanics to rid you of your isks, well, it's not an exploit, it's just, you've been outsmarted by someone who hasn't your moral values.

now they're two ways to go about it

- bi*ch and rant about "exploit" and ask people to improve your (if you're in that case, probably miserable) life
- do something about it, recognize where you failed, and improve as a person


first and foremost, no matter how we flatter our egos about how eve is "not a game", well, sorry to break it to you, it's a game.

a very complex, cool, intelligent, beautiful, poetic game, but a game nonetheless

and when a game stops being fun, well then it's time to turn it off and go do something else with your day. As said by others, eve isn't for anyone.

it's very important to remember that Eve is a game, because it means that no, it's not THAT important that it can ruin your day/week/month/life if you lose something in the game, let it be isks or ships or your pride even.

it's all part of the game, and it does not matter in real life, not at all. We indeed are priviledged beings just for being able to spend the amount of time that we do playing make believe star wars, while -and I know how cliché it sounds- many people, the age of our sons, are actually fighting wars somewhere else on earth, actually losing their homes, loved ones, everything.

So you got scammed of a few million isks and got your BS blown up, boohoo, tough luck. You still can go about your business, and you'll still be fine. it's a game, it doesn't matter.

Now with a good philosophy, you can take stuff out of that game that will help you in real life. Patience, resilience, perseverance, business sense (I wouldn't be a business owner in real life if I hadn't try and succeeded owning a business in SWG back in the days, pre cu).

But as in real life, there will ALWAYS be people out to get your money, your stuff, you can bi*ch and rant, or you can be a philosopher about it, this is who we are as a spiecies, there's not much we can do about it, but be positive and improve. Set an example.

Anyway, new eve player, having a blast hanging out in low sec exploring, I've even been to WH space after a few days only, lost some ships, ended up broke, built up some more isks and went on.

it's a good game, but if you're used to being entitled, of what you think is "fair", well, maybe you're in for a great disappointment.


much love to yall <3


I think it is wonderful how you have an it's a game philosophy and how it isn't supposed to be fair.

Personally I fail to see the fun in scamming or otherwise reaming a newer player. Just because it's a game doesn't mean stupid behavior has to be encouraged.

But that being the case that people that play this game feel entitled to mess with uninformed players says more about the idiot playing that way then the recipient of the crap.

If you and others feel entitled to screw other players than just come out and say it.

Instead of BSing people with saying something like, "eve is a sandbox and you can do whatever you want". You should say things like many eve players are small minded jerks that get their kicks exploiting new players - that would at least be honest.

It's a game true. Play how you want. Just don't give me this lame story how new players need to suck it up when they are reamed by jerks in this game.
Ned Thomas
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#25 - 2015-03-04 17:54:01 UTC
Many Eve players get their kicks out of screwing with anyone they possibly can. There are three main reasons for this:

1. It's hilarious
2. **** you.
3. Maybe isk? They may or may not care about that. There probably isn't actually a 3.

And not everyone who is going to tell you that enjoys or engages in that type of game play. It's just part of the game, accept it and roll with it.

I hope that was honest enough.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#26 - 2015-03-04 17:55:46 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
Kick Axe Blackwing wrote:
Instead of BSing people with saying something like, "eve is a sandbox and you can do whatever you want". You should say things like many eve players are small minded jerks that get their kicks exploiting newblow up players - that would at least be honest.

FYP.

Because it is actually hard to differentiate a genuine newbie from a veteran playing on a newbie character, players in EVE are by and large equal opportunity douchebags.

Newbie players just happen to easier to kill. And we usually won't be able to ID a real newbie until well after the fact.

Kick Axe Blackwing wrote:
It's a game true. Play how you want. Just don't give me this lame story how new players need to suck it up when they are reamed by jerks in this game.

Why not?

Remember way back, when your friend introduced you to Street Fighter? And in the first round of playing he/she beat the snot out of you?
Remember how AFTER your friend got his/her chuckles he/she then showed you how to be better?

EVE is no different. Except we are strangers.

How did you Veterans start?
Azda Ja
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#27 - 2015-03-04 18:07:59 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
Kick Axe Blackwing wrote:
It's a game true. Play how you want. Just don't give me this lame story how new players need to suck it up when they are reamed by jerks in this game.

Why not?

Remember way back, when your friend introduced you to Street Fighter? And in the first round of playing he/she beat the snot out of you?
Remember how AFTER your friend got his/her chuckles he/she then showed you how to be better?

EVE is no different. Except we are strangers.

OP probably doesn't know how to lose with class. Playing board games with you must be terrible if this is how you approach games.

Also, you keep calling people jerks and idiots for playing the way they play, ways which are NOT against the rules remember. Who is the jerk, really?

Grrr.
Benthos Thellere
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2015-03-04 18:59:05 UTC
Kick Axe Blackwing wrote:
Miwako Tani wrote:
I can never understand why people can't just admit when they've been beat. If someone uses actual game mechanics to rid you of your isks, well, it's not an exploit, it's just, you've been outsmarted by someone who hasn't your moral values.

now they're two ways to go about it

- bi*ch and rant about "exploit" and ask people to improve your (if you're in that case, probably miserable) life
- do something about it, recognize where you failed, and improve as a person

[snip]

much love to yall <3


I think it is wonderful how you have an it's a game philosophy and how it isn't supposed to be fair.

[snip]

It's a game true. Play how you want. Just don't give me this lame story how new players need to suck it up when they are reamed by jerks in this game.

The fact of the matter is you will sometimes have to 'suck it up'. What's important is that you learn at least something from your loss. I have found that engaging the 'jerks' is often the best way to learn. Players that have blown me up have been willing to talk tactics and ship fits with me so that I can attempt to avoid a repeat of that situation.

I concede I may have been a little more lucky when I started playing insofar as I had someone IRL who explained many aspects of the game before I first logged in. I was at least a little prepared and expected to have to:

- pick my fights (there's a lot I still have to learn in this respect)
- die often (with the loss of ships/ISK that come with that)
- maintain a sense of perspective (this is a video game, after all)
- think actively about what I want to do/what I should fly/how I should fit to achieve that
- maintain a healthy sense of skepticism in my interactions with other players

I don't pretend to have even scratched the surface of this game but I'm confident that if I keep the points above in mind I'll continue to enjoy EVE.

I don't doubt there are at least some players who massage both their killboards and egos by killing/scamming newbros because it is their idea of 'fun'. That shouldn't stop you finding out what's fun for you :-)

Cheers!

Benthos Thellere.

Can't stop the Signal.
Phig Neutron
Starbreaker and Sons
#29 - 2015-03-04 19:06:48 UTC
Scamming and ganking is annoying, yes. Three tips:

1. Adjust the chat window when you go to a trade hub so that you can only see the user list.
2. Better yet, never go to a trade hub.
3. There's always somebody in your alliance willing to do a courier contract. Let him worry about the gankers.
Cara Forelli
State War Academy
Caldari State
#30 - 2015-03-04 19:40:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Cara Forelli
Kick Axe Blackwing wrote:
Instead of BSing people with saying something like, "eve is a sandbox and you can do whatever you want". You should say things like many eve players are small minded jerks that get their kicks exploiting new players - that would at least be honest.

A lot of new players seem to adopt this sort of victim mentality. The truth is, hardly anyone specifically targets new players. There's very little to gain from it. New players don't have any money. They can't fly anything "nice". What would be the point of scamming or ganking them, aside from riling them up? It's much more fun to take advantage of older players who have more ISK than sense.

When I was brand new an awesome vet gave me some tips and helped me get through the tutorials. One of the things I still remember was his statement "Don't trust ANYONE". He explained the trade-window scam and how to avoid it. From then on I knew no one would take care of me. I had to take care of myself.

Amusingly, my paranoia was near-unlimited. The same veteran happened to be flying a Black Ops battleship that day. He told me to undock so he could show it to me. As I undocked he mentioned that his ship had the ability to transport other people to distant systems. I immediately docked back up and refused to come out again for fear that he would send me somewhere unpleasant. Big smile

The point is, EVE is a lot like the real world. The vast majority of people out there don't care about your feelings and would screw you over for personal gain in a heartbeat. But just like the real world, you also have the tools to protect yourself. So don't assign blame to others for your misfortune. Own it. Do something about it.

"You are entitled to nothing" - Frank Underwood

Want to talk? Join my channel in game: House Forelli

Titan's Lament
ISD Athechu
ISD STAR
ISD Alliance
#31 - 2015-03-04 20:33:15 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Athechu
Kick Axe Blackwing wrote:


I think your ultimate list of what could be done is not practical for a newer player. Besides you have included the exploits of scamming and ganking. Scamming is just ridiculous where as ganking is often used against new players even in high sec.
These things are examples of actions that have no place in the game IMHO. That would be another post how this game allows ridiculous exploits esp. against new players.



EVE has a lot of Risk Vs Reward aspects and is a sandbox. Players make up the game play (mostly with the exception of a few things that CCP provides) allowing for unique aspects of careers and opportunities to come. But I have been seeing this come up more often for some reason. Just to set the record straight for anyone else reading this and thinking it's not OK. Scamming and Ganking are valid tactics and you are welcome to do it whenever you would like. It's not an exploit by any means.

Now what isn't allowed is deliberately targeting a new player for the sole purpose of griefing the new player. If people specifically attempt to target new players for the sole reason to grief them then please file a support ticket under harassment.
Please see: http://community.eveonline.com/support/knowledge-base/article.aspx?articleId=336

Also I know of a few corporation/alliances that shower their younger players with free stuff or help them live in Low/Null area and teach them how things go. If you wish as a younger player to go out to low/null just gotta hit them up and ask how to get started. So moving out there when you are young is perfectly OK to do and totally open as an option.

Edit:

In terms of Scams/Attacks/Ganks this is basically the law that has been put down by the GMs,

Quote:
Attempting to abuse a new player’s lack of knowledge of the game and its mechanic for your personal gain or simply for their harm is prohibited in these solar systems. This includes, but is not limited to; tricking new players into situations where you or others may open fire on them freely or scamming ISK or assets from them. Disregarding warnings to cease such behavior from authorized CCP personnel is considered to be in violation of section 6 of the EVE Online Terms of Service.

Pilots found to pursue activities against new players in other areas may be subject to further restrictions as deemed necessary by CCP Games Customer Support Team.


https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Rookie_Systems

GM Homonoia wrote:
I shall make this real simple: Do not mess with rookies in rookie systems in any way. They are still trying to figure out how to read the overview and how to right click; messing with them at that point in their career is something for bullies who have something to compensate for and only dare to pick on the smallest, weakest boy in kindergarten.


https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1192090#post1192090

If you have any questions about these policies please file a support ticket under Rules & Policy > EULA & TOS
If you feel you have been the victim of a violation of the rules please file a ticket under Harassment and a GM will be happy to help you out.

ISD Athechu

STAR Executive

EVE New Citizens Q&A Resources

Helping Players Since 2011
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#32 - 2015-03-04 21:20:44 UTC  |  Edited by: J'Poll
Kick Axe Blackwing wrote:
Miwako Tani wrote:
I can never understand why people can't just admit when they've been beat. If someone uses actual game mechanics to rid you of your isks, well, it's not an exploit, it's just, you've been outsmarted by someone who hasn't your moral values.

now they're two ways to go about it

- bi*ch and rant about "exploit" and ask people to improve your (if you're in that case, probably miserable) life
- do something about it, recognize where you failed, and improve as a person


first and foremost, no matter how we flatter our egos about how eve is "not a game", well, sorry to break it to you, it's a game.

a very complex, cool, intelligent, beautiful, poetic game, but a game nonetheless

and when a game stops being fun, well then it's time to turn it off and go do something else with your day. As said by others, eve isn't for anyone.

it's very important to remember that Eve is a game, because it means that no, it's not THAT important that it can ruin your day/week/month/life if you lose something in the game, let it be isks or ships or your pride even.

it's all part of the game, and it does not matter in real life, not at all. We indeed are priviledged beings just for being able to spend the amount of time that we do playing make believe star wars, while -and I know how cliché it sounds- many people, the age of our sons, are actually fighting wars somewhere else on earth, actually losing their homes, loved ones, everything.

So you got scammed of a few million isks and got your BS blown up, boohoo, tough luck. You still can go about your business, and you'll still be fine. it's a game, it doesn't matter.

Now with a good philosophy, you can take stuff out of that game that will help you in real life. Patience, resilience, perseverance, business sense (I wouldn't be a business owner in real life if I hadn't try and succeeded owning a business in SWG back in the days, pre cu).

But as in real life, there will ALWAYS be people out to get your money, your stuff, you can bi*ch and rant, or you can be a philosopher about it, this is who we are as a spiecies, there's not much we can do about it, but be positive and improve. Set an example.

Anyway, new eve player, having a blast hanging out in low sec exploring, I've even been to WH space after a few days only, lost some ships, ended up broke, built up some more isks and went on.

it's a good game, but if you're used to being entitled, of what you think is "fair", well, maybe you're in for a great disappointment.


much love to yall <3


I think it is wonderful how you have an it's a game philosophy and how it isn't supposed to be fair.

Personally I fail to see the fun in scamming or otherwise reaming a newer player. Just because it's a game doesn't mean stupid behavior has to be encouraged.

But that being the case that people that play this game feel entitled to mess with uninformed players says more about the idiot playing that way then the recipient of the crap.

If you and others feel entitled to screw other players than just come out and say it.

Instead of BSing people with saying something like, "eve is a sandbox and you can do whatever you want". You should say things like many eve players are small minded jerks that get their kicks exploiting new players - that would at least be honest.

It's a game true. Play how you want. Just don't give me this lame story how new players need to suck it up when they are reamed by jerks in this game.


Fun fact:


The majority of the new players aren't screwed over.

You are among a small portion, which by their own personality made themself a target.




But a TL:DR about the OP:


WAAH, ARGH...You all must play in the way I want to play, otherwise you are jerks.



p.s.

Most scammers etc don't even target new players. Why target someone who has NOTHING, when with the same amount of effort, you can target someone who will "transfer" billions from their wallet to yours.

Fatten the prey as Sabriz would call it.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#33 - 2015-03-04 21:24:30 UTC
Kick Axe Blackwing wrote:


I think it is wonderful how you have an it's a game philosophy and how it isn't supposed to be fair.

Personally I fail to see the fun in scamming or otherwise reaming a newer player. Just because it's a game doesn't mean stupid behavior has to be encouraged.

But that being the case that people that play this game feel entitled to mess with uninformed players says more about the idiot playing that way then the recipient of the crap.

If you and others feel entitled to screw other players than just come out and say it.

Instead of BSing people with saying something like, "eve is a sandbox and you can do whatever you want". You should say things like many eve players are small minded jerks that get their kicks exploiting new players - that would at least be honest.

It's a game true. Play how you want. Just don't give me this lame story how new players need to suck it up when they are reamed by jerks in this game.

With freedom comes responsibility. If you want to freedom to do as you please you have to be responsible for yourself and your interactions with others. You can ***** and whine that bad people should not be allowed to do what they do and what you'll get is a huge nanny-state type government that takes away all of your responsibilities and your freedoms right along with it. This is just how life works.

If you like a big intrusive government that inserts it's self into your life and makes your decisions for you while at the same time failing to keep you safe and secure but promising that then go play WoW as it is set up for people like you.

However if you would rather be left on your own to interact with others and figure out how to deal with asshats on you own as you come across them and no one will tell you what to do nor hold your hand then Eve might be for you. It's about personal responsiblity. You are either grown up enough to enjoy personl responsibility or you are not. if you are then you might like eve. If you are not then I suggest you play WoW.

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#34 - 2015-03-04 21:27:45 UTC
ISD Athechu wrote:
Kick Axe Blackwing wrote:


I think your ultimate list of what could be done is not practical for a newer player. Besides you have included the exploits of scamming and ganking. Scamming is just ridiculous where as ganking is often used against new players even in high sec.
These things are examples of actions that have no place in the game IMHO. That would be another post how this game allows ridiculous exploits esp. against new players.



EVE has a lot of Risk Vs Reward aspects and is a sandbox. Players make up the game play (mostly with the exception of a few things that CCP provides) allowing for unique aspects of careers and opportunities to come. But I have been seeing this come up more often for some reason. Just to set the record straight for anyone else reading this and thinking it's not OK. Scamming and Ganking are valid tactics and you are welcome to do it whenever you would like. It's not an exploit by any means.

Now what isn't allowed is deliberately targeting a new player for the sole purpose of griefing the new player. If people specifically attempt to target new players for the sole reason to grief them then please file a support ticket under harassment.
Please see: http://community.eveonline.com/support/knowledge-base/article.aspx?articleId=336

Also I know of a few corporation/alliances that shower their younger players with free stuff or help them live in Low/Null area and teach them how things go. If you wish as a younger player to go out to low/null just gotta hit them up and ask how to get started. So moving out there when you are young is perfectly OK to do and totally open as an option.


Please Atechu, also clarify that 1 attack / scam =/= griefing.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
Kick Axe Blackwing
EVE University
Ivy League
#35 - 2015-03-04 23:33:54 UTC
[quote=J'Poll

The majority of the new players aren't screwed over.

You are among a small portion, which by their own personality made themself a target.




But a TL:DR about the OP:


WAAH, ARGH...You all must play in the way I want to play, otherwise you are jerks.



p.s.

Most scammers etc don't even target new players. Why target someone who has NOTHING, when with the same amount of effort, you can target someone who will "transfer" billions from their wallet to yours. quote=J'Pol]


Dude - You sure are full of yourself. How the hell do you know anything about me or any other new player?

And what are you like 10 years old?

Go try your little cry baby act on someone you want to scam -- you might distract them long enough to plug them.
Cannibal Kane
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#36 - 2015-03-04 23:42:48 UTC
Yeah...

I am adding you to my watch list.

Even on the forums people ranting and raving are held accountable in game for their nonsense.

People try to help and you shut them down. What you are saying is not practical for new players is what I did when I first started the game. Don't knock till you tried it.

"Kane is the End Boss of Highsec." -Psychotic Monk
Kick Axe Blackwing
EVE University
Ivy League
#37 - 2015-03-05 00:13:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Kick Axe Blackwing
Cannibal Kane wrote:
Yeah...

I am adding you to my watch list.

Even on the forums people ranting and raving are held accountable in game for their nonsense.

People try to help and you shut them down. What you are saying is not practical for new players is what I did when I first started the game. Don't knock till you tried it.


I have no idea what you are talking about.

If you want to plug someone why don't you go plug the cry baby? Or isn't that ranting and raving by your definition? Did you see me talking that way to anyone? Go read the posts.
Ned Thomas
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#38 - 2015-03-05 00:25:21 UTC
Kick Axe Blackwing wrote:
Cannibal Kane wrote:
Yeah...

I am adding you to my watch list.

Even on the forums people ranting and raving are held accountable in game for their nonsense.

People try to help and you shut them down. What you are saying is not practical for new players is what I did when I first started the game. Don't knock till you tried it.


I have no idea what you are talking about.

If you want to plug someone why don't you go plug the cry baby? Or isn't that ranting and raving by your definition? Did you see me talking that way to anyone? Go read the posts.


There are a lot of ways to respond to being watchlisted by Kane. Some good, some bad, results may vary.

This response is pretty solidly in the "bad" column.
Kick Axe Blackwing
EVE University
Ivy League
#39 - 2015-03-05 00:31:57 UTC
Well this whole conversation went south that's for sure.

All those who posted - thanks for your opinions.

I gave my opinions. You gave yours.

I'm moving on.
Paranoid Loyd
#40 - 2015-03-05 00:35:05 UTC
Kick Axe Blackwing wrote:
Well this whole conversation went south that's for sure.
Yes, you managed to alienate yourself from some of the most helpful people around. Please try to realize this is no one's fault but your own. Good luck with the rest of you time here.

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
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