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[Proposal] Get rid of learning implants.
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Alticus C Bear
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#41 - 2011-12-02 21:40:52 UTC
I kept trying to rationalise keeping learning implants but not sure if I can, however I think I have come to the conclusion that it is not the learning implants that are the barrier as In my High Sec clone I have more combat implants that are just as expensive that I would also not want to risk losing.

I would rather shorten the jump clone timer to say 12hrs. that said I still think that the combat implants are more interesting to use and so would probably still support the proposal.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#42 - 2011-12-03 04:13:59 UTC
Alticus C Bear wrote:
I kept trying to rationalise keeping learning implants but not sure if I can, however I think I have come to the conclusion that it is not the learning implants that are the barrier as In my High Sec clone I have more combat implants that are just as expensive that I would also not want to risk losing.

I would rather shorten the jump clone timer to say 12hrs. that said I still think that the combat implants are more interesting to use and so would probably still support the proposal.


Reduced jump clone timers would work in a pinch, but in my opinion learning implants are dumb and, well, nobody has come forward with a reasonable objection to their removal, just forum alts parroting "RISK RISK RISK" crap.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#43 - 2011-12-03 04:16:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Andski
I mean yes, there should be increased risk in nullsec in relation to empire, but being forced to keep implant clones in empire is more of a punishment than a ~consequence~

edit: I realize that mining barge insurance payouts matter a lot to a lot of people but really I'm bumping this

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Midori Tsu
Evolution
Northern Coalition.
#44 - 2011-12-03 04:41:32 UTC
I haven't had a implant in for atleast 6 months now, can't say i miss them.

Also have 2 clones with full plus +4s and assorted hardwirings. Haven't used them in nearly 7 months.
Goose99
#45 - 2011-12-03 04:49:07 UTC
Andski wrote:
Alticus C Bear wrote:
I kept trying to rationalise keeping learning implants but not sure if I can, however I think I have come to the conclusion that it is not the learning implants that are the barrier as In my High Sec clone I have more combat implants that are just as expensive that I would also not want to risk losing.

I would rather shorten the jump clone timer to say 12hrs. that said I still think that the combat implants are more interesting to use and so would probably still support the proposal.


Reduced jump clone timers would work in a pinch, but in my opinion learning implants are dumb and, well, nobody has come forward with a reasonable objection to their removal, just forum alts parroting "RISK RISK RISK" crap.


Risk should only apply to ppl other than myself. Empire carebears should have their pimpboats ganked and lose everything they own, that's fair risk. But I should be able to get podded with zero loss in null bubble. Because I'm not a hypocrite like that.Cool
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#46 - 2011-12-03 04:51:14 UTC
Goose99 wrote:
Andski wrote:
Alticus C Bear wrote:
I kept trying to rationalise keeping learning implants but not sure if I can, however I think I have come to the conclusion that it is not the learning implants that are the barrier as In my High Sec clone I have more combat implants that are just as expensive that I would also not want to risk losing.

I would rather shorten the jump clone timer to say 12hrs. that said I still think that the combat implants are more interesting to use and so would probably still support the proposal.


Reduced jump clone timers would work in a pinch, but in my opinion learning implants are dumb and, well, nobody has come forward with a reasonable objection to their removal, just forum alts parroting "RISK RISK RISK" crap.


Risk should only apply to ppl other than myself. Empire carebears should have their pimpboats ganked and lose everything they own, that's fair risk. But I should be able to get podded with zero loss in null bubble. Because I'm not a hypocrite like that.Cool


didn't I say to come back with your main?

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Tahna Rouspel
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#47 - 2011-12-03 05:56:37 UTC
Innominate wrote:
Learning implants are exactly like the old learning skills. They provide strong motivation to avoid playing the game, an effect which has a particularly strong effect on newbies.

Get rid of learning implants, add more combat implants.


It does sound reasonable like that.

I personally like that dying and losing a pod is a big deal, but if they replaced the learning attributes with more combat stats, then there would still be a good reason to get implants.
Goose99
#48 - 2011-12-03 16:32:09 UTC
Tahna Rouspel wrote:
Innominate wrote:
Learning implants are exactly like the old learning skills. They provide strong motivation to avoid playing the game, an effect which has a particularly strong effect on newbies.

Get rid of learning implants, add more combat implants.


It does sound reasonable like that.

I personally like that dying and losing a pod is a big deal, but if they replaced the learning attributes with more combat stats, then there would still be a good reason to get implants.


Except you won't be as compelled to put combat implants in a pod that'll get bubbled. Oh wait, that's the whole point - ensure your null podkill produce zero loss.Lol

WOW is that way ->
Takeshi Yamato
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#49 - 2011-12-03 17:52:35 UTC
Learning implants are just as bad as learning skills.
Tsubutai
Perkone
Caldari State
#50 - 2011-12-03 17:59:50 UTC
Supported, although I'm not so keen on the idea of replacing them with slot 1-5 combat implants (pirate sets excepted).
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#51 - 2011-12-03 21:50:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Andski
Goose99 wrote:
Tahna Rouspel wrote:
Innominate wrote:
Learning implants are exactly like the old learning skills. They provide strong motivation to avoid playing the game, an effect which has a particularly strong effect on newbies.

Get rid of learning implants, add more combat implants.


It does sound reasonable like that.

I personally like that dying and losing a pod is a big deal, but if they replaced the learning attributes with more combat stats, then there would still be a good reason to get implants.


Except you won't be as compelled to put combat implants in a pod that'll get bubbled. Oh wait, that's the whole point - ensure your null podkill produce zero loss.Lol

WOW is that way ->


People fly with hardwirings and pirate sets in nullsec all the time.

And I won't be the first to point out the irony of talking about aversion to risk while posting from an NPC corp forum alt. Roll

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
The Mittani
State War Academy
Caldari State
#52 - 2011-12-03 21:51:35 UTC
Takeshi Yamato wrote:
Learning implants are just as bad as learning skills.


I support this proposal and will be pushing it come Wednesday in the meetings.

Better yet, I'll mention it over beer in Islenskibarrin on Tuesday before the summit. That's how much I love you.

~hi~
King Rothgar
Deadly Solutions
#53 - 2011-12-04 04:31:00 UTC
Implants grant you bonuses. Some bonus learning speed, others bonus combat stats. Simple as that. The argument for removing attribute implants could also be applied to gunnery/missile hardwirings. There is no difference. Eve is very much a game about choices. You can learn faster or you can be cheaper or you can use pirate/FW implants for other bonuses. But you must make a choice and that's important in games like eve. The simple fact is you don't need implants at all to raise your skills, it just takes slightly longer without them. Care to know what the difference between my +5 set and a +3 pirate implant set is on the 50d skills I train nowadays? About 5 days. 24 hours of being in the +3 combat implants isn't going to make more than maybe an hour or two difference on that.

I'm ok with adjusting the clone jump timer, hell I'm ok with setting it to a simple 30s session change timer. But the attribute implants are nothing like the learning skills. Learning skills costed basically nothing and you didn't lose them when you got podded. Implants you do. Using implants, even attribute ones, is no different than slapping some faction gear on your ship other than it's obviously strapped to your pod instead.

[u]Fireworks and snowballs are great, but what I really want is a corpse launcher.[/u]
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#54 - 2011-12-04 05:50:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Andski
King Rothgar wrote:
Implants grant you bonuses. Some bonus learning speed, others bonus combat stats. Simple as that. The argument for removing attribute implants could also be applied to gunnery/missile hardwirings. There is no difference. Eve is very much a game about choices. You can learn faster or you can be cheaper or you can use pirate/FW implants for other bonuses. But you must make a choice and that's important in games like eve. The simple fact is you don't need implants at all to raise your skills, it just takes slightly longer without them. Care to know what the difference between my +5 set and a +3 pirate implant set is on the 50d skills I train nowadays? About 5 days. 24 hours of being in the +3 combat implants isn't going to make more than maybe an hour or two difference on that.

I'm ok with adjusting the clone jump timer, hell I'm ok with setting it to a simple 30s session change timer. But the attribute implants are nothing like the learning skills. Learning skills costed basically nothing and you didn't lose them when you got podded. Implants you do. Using implants, even attribute ones, is no different than slapping some faction gear on your ship other than it's obviously strapped to your pod instead.


Hi, this isn't about combat implants (or hardwirings) at all, or about faction implant sets, this is about learning implants exclusively.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Goose99
#55 - 2011-12-04 06:16:07 UTC
Andski wrote:
King Rothgar wrote:
Implants grant you bonuses. Some bonus learning speed, others bonus combat stats. Simple as that. The argument for removing attribute implants could also be applied to gunnery/missile hardwirings. There is no difference. Eve is very much a game about choices. You can learn faster or you can be cheaper or you can use pirate/FW implants for other bonuses. But you must make a choice and that's important in games like eve. The simple fact is you don't need implants at all to raise your skills, it just takes slightly longer without them. Care to know what the difference between my +5 set and a +3 pirate implant set is on the 50d skills I train nowadays? About 5 days. 24 hours of being in the +3 combat implants isn't going to make more than maybe an hour or two difference on that.

I'm ok with adjusting the clone jump timer, hell I'm ok with setting it to a simple 30s session change timer. But the attribute implants are nothing like the learning skills. Learning skills costed basically nothing and you didn't lose them when you got podded. Implants you do. Using implants, even attribute ones, is no different than slapping some faction gear on your ship other than it's obviously strapped to your pod instead.


Hi, this isn't about combat implants (or hardwirings) at all, or about faction implant sets, this is about learning implants exclusively.


You aren't planning to use hardwiring anyway, but are unwilling to part with learning bonus. Stop believing in your own lies. All you goon noobs want is to be able to get podded at zero loss.Lol
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#56 - 2011-12-04 06:40:17 UTC
Goose99 wrote:
You aren't planning to use hardwiring anyway, but are unwilling to part with learning bonus. Stop believing in your own lies. All you goon noobs want is to be able to get podded at zero loss.Lol


Andski wrote:
I won't be the first to point out the irony of talking about aversion to risk while posting from an NPC corp forum alt. Roll

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#57 - 2011-12-04 06:50:59 UTC
i mean let's face it "Goose99" you probably have never set foot in nullsec and you're one of those idiots who thinks that we mine and run sanctums in cynojammed systems with 80 T2 large anchored bubbles on every gate because that's what your friends who were in solar/legion renter corps tell you they did, lmao

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Stahlregen
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#58 - 2011-12-04 07:11:26 UTC
Death 2 learning implants.

EVERY MORNING I WAKE UP AND OPEN PALM SLAM A VHS INTO THE SLOT. IT'S CHRONICLES OF RIDDICK AND RIGHT THEN AND THERE I START DOING THE MOVES ALONGSIDE THE MAIN CHARACTER, RIDDICK. I DO EVERY MOVE AND I DO EVERY MOVE HARD. MAKIN' WHOOSHING SOUNDS WHEN I SLAM DOWN SOME NECRO BASTARDS. NOT MANY CAN SAY THEY ESCAPED THE GALAXY'S MOST DANGEROUS PRISON. I CAN.
King Rothgar
Deadly Solutions
#59 - 2011-12-04 07:45:39 UTC
Andski wrote:
King Rothgar wrote:
Implants grant you bonuses. Some bonus learning speed, others bonus combat stats. Simple as that. The argument for removing attribute implants could also be applied to gunnery/missile hardwirings. There is no difference. Eve is very much a game about choices. You can learn faster or you can be cheaper or you can use pirate/FW implants for other bonuses. But you must make a choice and that's important in games like eve. The simple fact is you don't need implants at all to raise your skills, it just takes slightly longer without them. Care to know what the difference between my +5 set and a +3 pirate implant set is on the 50d skills I train nowadays? About 5 days. 24 hours of being in the +3 combat implants isn't going to make more than maybe an hour or two difference on that.

I'm ok with adjusting the clone jump timer, hell I'm ok with setting it to a simple 30s session change timer. But the attribute implants are nothing like the learning skills. Learning skills costed basically nothing and you didn't lose them when you got podded. Implants you do. Using implants, even attribute ones, is no different than slapping some faction gear on your ship other than it's obviously strapped to your pod instead.


Hi, this isn't about combat implants (or hardwirings) at all, or about faction implant sets, this is about learning implants exclusively.


You fail at reading comprehension. Please try again.

[u]Fireworks and snowballs are great, but what I really want is a corpse launcher.[/u]
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#60 - 2011-12-04 07:52:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Andski
Reducing the jump clone timer (or removing it out right) has the same effect so vOv you're just rambling

Although I do fear that it'd lead to ~strategic~ placement of jump clones and allow large alliances to essentially run multiple campaigns at once in opposite sides of the galaxy and be able to react far better to attacks on allies, again, in opposite sides of the galaxy. Have you considered that? Replacing learning implants with +5 to the base values of all five attributes is a better solution.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar