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[Proposal] Get rid of learning implants.
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Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#221 - 2011-12-17 19:59:29 UTC
Amarr Champine wrote:
Haha thats funny, but seriously....

Who the **** are you? In or out of the game. Don't remember ever hearing about Andski the great, the feared pilot of eve, killer of rifters. Your alliance may be known, but you are not. This does not make you relevant or an expert on matters of the game. It makes you some guy who is now known to make bad proposals and will not back them up with reason. Good day.


you seem very bitter about something, and I cannot resist but ask, "you mad?"

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Amarr Champine
Doomheim
#222 - 2011-12-17 20:00:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Amarr Champine
I said GOOD DAY SIR!

The "Hammer" of CVA has spoken!
Alexander Jabez
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#223 - 2011-12-17 20:09:12 UTC
And this "easier for older players" sh@t is ridiculous. Why shouldn't it be easier for older players? These implants do not give that much of a bonus at all. I'm actually curious to see if you have an actual reason why the game should change from being geared towards the older to the newer player. And don't give your bull **** reason of it drives people away because we both know that there are more people playing now than a few years back. So any response?

Lemme cover part of your argument for you really quick:

"Alex you are an idiot who can't spell in an alliance nobody knows"

So that part is covered for you now. :)
Destination SkillQueue
Doomheim
#224 - 2011-12-17 20:37:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Destination SkillQueue
I'm sympathetic to the idea behind this, but I won't easily support ideas where the solution to a problem is removing that aspect entirely from the game just to get rid of the issue. I would simply prefer to see a fix to the issue, since you have to address the same issue repeating with hardwirings anyway. That fix would be to allow easier access to jump clones and allowing local clone switching without any timers.

How I vision it is to basicly make jump clone access an easy, basic facet of the game. Easiest solution for this is propably to allow people to simply buy jump clones from the market and allow transferring them(generic jump clone template -item) as a normal item, so they are easy to move around and get. When you activate one it becomes one of your jumpclones and an implanted jump clone would function like a rigged ship, since they work in a very similar fashion. So basicly if you repack it, you lose the implants and it stops being your jump clone. If the goal is to have everyone have access to them, make it so you get one jumpclone and the required skill from a jumpclone tutorial.

I wouldn't lose any sleep if learning implants would go away, but as i said it would still leave the issue with having wrong hardwirings intact. That issue needs to be solved too and any solution to that issue will also solve the learning implant issue at the same time, since it's basicly the same problem. So once you have a fix for the hardwiring issue, you've also succesfully removed the need to remove learning implants.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#225 - 2011-12-17 20:42:19 UTC
I like the idea of "jump clone vouchers" being sold on the LP store as opposed to requiring ridiculous standings (because lol grinding missions) or access to a player outpost.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#226 - 2011-12-17 20:51:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Andski
Alexander Jabez wrote:
And this "easier for older players" sh@t is ridiculous. Why shouldn't it be easier for older players?


It isn't. One careless mistake can still cost you your ship and pod, whether you are in an Ibis or in an Erebus.

Alexander Jabez wrote:
I'm actually curious to see if you have an actual reason why the game should change from being geared towards the older to the newer player.


False dilemma? The game is not geared towards the older player precisely because of the way the skill system works (diminishing returns.)

Alexander Jabez wrote:
we both know that there are more people playing now than a few years back.


Precisely for that reason - the game is balanced to an extent where high-SP veterans cannot simply and effortlessly farm kills on newer players (aside from ganking ibises in lowsec, but that's different)

Alexander Jabez wrote:
Lemme cover part of your argument for you really quick:

"Alex you are an idiot who can't spell in an alliance nobody knows"


Yep!

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Alexander Jabez
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#227 - 2011-12-17 21:00:04 UTC
The standing thing with the jump clones is high, but since you have the ability to make one with a rorqual or with access to an outpost in null sec I don't think its that big of a deal. Especially since if you don't have the access to null you probably don't really need a jump clone anyway.

Point being if you live in high sec there is no point in jumping out of your +5's unless its to switch to your slaves, and if you do live in high sec you are up there enough to have the standing with someone to make a jump clone anyway. If you live in null you probably have access to a station. So I don't really see the point to making jump clones more available.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#228 - 2011-12-17 21:08:40 UTC
Alexander Jabez wrote:
The standing thing with the jump clones is high, but since you have the ability to make one with a rorqual or with access to an outpost in null sec I don't think its that big of a deal. Especially since if you don't have the access to null you probably don't really need a jump clone anyway.

Point being if you live in high sec there is no point in jumping out of your +5's unless its to switch to your slaves, and if you do live in high sec you are up there enough to have the standing with someone to make a jump clone anyway. If you live in null you probably have access to a station. So I don't really see the point to making jump clones more available.


If you live in high-sec, you don't need to jump out of your implant clone, but wartargets (or a guy in an instalocking pod-popping thrasher) can ruin your day. It'd be nice to see jump clones made more accessible (not everyone who lives in 0.0 has easy access to them unless they're blue to a sov-holding alliance) and it'd allow people to use their wallet to their advantage, not having to grind standings when they have the ISK ready (as is the case with implants, faction mods, faction ammo, etc.)

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#229 - 2011-12-17 21:39:51 UTC
Andski wrote:
.....


You really haven't given a reason why learning implants are bad for the game.

I'd also like to point out, different aspects of the game all age together:

As you grow higher in skill points, you become experienced enough to make isk much more quickly than a new player.
As you grow higher in skill points, the average training time of skills you train are measured in weeks, not days or hours.
As you grow higher in skill points, you have a much more expensive clone, you often fly much more expensive ships, and so using expensive implants is NOT a big deal.

There is no easy-mode of older players... some things get easier (making isk), but things get riskier too (losing a pod).

Alexander Jabez
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#230 - 2011-12-17 22:55:17 UTC
Yea in no way was I saying the game is easy on older players, They have as much risk, in fact more risk than a new player. But being able to afford expensive implants is an advantage though that an older player should have. Getting rid of learning implants takes part of that advantage away. But i agree with you guys that the game isn't on easy mode for older players, nor should it be. But the older players should be allowed their advantages, especially with the risk that comes with having them. The game should not be toned down because some people are scared of flying around in their implants.
Alexander Jabez
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#231 - 2011-12-17 22:58:12 UTC
[quote=Andski]
If you live in high-sec, you don't need to jump out of your implant clone, but wartargets (or a guy in an instalocking pod-popping thrasher) can ruin your day.


Getting your day ruined is a part of EVE
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#232 - 2011-12-17 23:00:49 UTC
Alexander Jabez wrote:
Getting your day ruined is a part of EVE


You're an idiot. That is not what I am discussing.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Alexander Jabez
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#233 - 2011-12-17 23:21:54 UTC
Andski wrote:
Alexander Jabez wrote:
Getting your day ruined is a part of EVE


You're an idiot. That is not what I am discussing.



LOL back to that again. And bull **** it isn't. The whole point of this thread was to bring up the idea of dropping learning implants because they are "inconvenient" for certain players and players in null sec don't use them and it'd make the game better for new players and I don't wanna get podded in +5's and have my day ruined. Directly or indirectly this idea of yours reduces the risk for people who fly around low/null in +5's because all of a sudden everyone has them naturally in their head.


I get what you are trying to do, you are trying to get people trained up quicker, people train up quick enough as it is.

Will +5's get you into a ship quicker? YES

Will they have you flying that ship a lot better, quicker? YES

Will it break your character if you don't have +5's? NO

Taking away the risk of flying around with +5's and possibly having your day ruined to make the game a little more care bear friendly isn't worth it.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#234 - 2011-12-17 23:29:02 UTC
you're a broken record

RISK VS REWARD
EVE SHOULD BE MISERABLE FOR NEW PLAYERS
etc. etc.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Alexander Jabez
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#235 - 2011-12-17 23:32:53 UTC
Andski wrote:
you're a broken record

RISK VS REWARD
EVE SHOULD BE MISERABLE FOR NEW PLAYERS
etc. etc.



Yea your right because learning implants definatly make this game rough on new players. I don't know how I got through it with those damn learning implants keeping me down....
Velin Dhal
Zeonic CG
#236 - 2011-12-18 00:20:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Velin Dhal
Andski wrote:
Alexander Jabez wrote:
Andski wrote:
Velin Dhal wrote:
Being lazy is not a valid reason to change the game


idgaf about this anymore, tbqfh, but it's clear that you're an elitist jerk and should get out~




And that is the problem right there in the proverbial nutshell. The "elitist jerk" is like that because he actually enjoys a game that challenges him and knows how to play correctly. You guys are whining about flying in +5's and losing them and oh no what if i die and get podded and lose all my implants. how is that fair???

New proposal, every time you get podded instead of getting a new noob ship (which from the sound of some of these posts many of you don't belong in anything else) everyone just gets a set of slaves or crystals.

and the fact that andski's only defense to ANY point against his proposal is to insult the poster in some way proves how care bear this idea is.


to get one thing out of the way here, you're an idiot.

moving on, it has nothing to do with his objection to the proposal (because he's an elitist jerk) but his whole "GO BACK TO WOW OR RIFT, NO SKILL TREES EVE IS UNIQUE (((" bullshit, because again, he's a 16 year old elitist who wants to feel ~special~ for playing a bad spaceship game ;p


Honestly, If EVE is such a bad game, then why are you playing it ?

Now lets get this discussion back on track instead of posting irrelevant insults.
Asuri Kinnes
Perkone
Caldari State
#237 - 2011-12-19 02:15:28 UTC
Not supported.

It is my opinion that having to make those choices (and for new players they *can* be difficult choices) are what sets Eve apart (read: above) other MMO's. Removing learning implants and granting everyone the +5 bonus auto-magically removes one layer of "choice" and "danger".

I honestly don't think (again, imho) that removing implants are going to get people out pvp'ing more - "people" as a general rule, will do what they want when they're ready. Some guys/gals get in the game and are in 0.0 w/in two weeks, some never make that transition. Risk aversion exists before implants.

vOv

(FYI: Posting from main Lol )

Bob is the god of Wormholes.

That's all you need to know.
Xander Hunt
#238 - 2011-12-19 12:05:39 UTC
Asuri Kinnes wrote:
Not supported.

It is my opinion that having to make those choices (and for new players they *can* be difficult choices) are what sets Eve apart (read: above) other MMO's. Removing learning implants and granting everyone the +5 bonus auto-magically removes one layer of "choice" and "danger".

I honestly don't think (again, imho) that removing implants are going to get people out pvp'ing more - "people" as a general rule, will do what they want when they're ready. Some guys/gals get in the game and are in 0.0 w/in two weeks, some never make that transition. Risk aversion exists before implants.

vOv

(FYI: Posting from main Lol )


I agree mostly.

I agree that removing implants aren't going to increase PvP chances
I agree that people will do what they want when they're ready.
I acknowledge that I could get WTFP0WND in one volley by a toon who's two weeks old depending on what I'm flying.
I don't agree that risk aversion exists before implants though.

Some people know the realities of 0.0 and some don't.
Some know the realities of PvP and some don't.

Myself, I know the reality of both, and personally, I don't care to play this game for 0.0 or PvP. I know that I'm going to get dragged into PvP at sometime or another, and I won't have a choice about it at that point, but thats where my "fun" comes in. The risk of knowing I have something expensive someone wants to see up on their corp/alliance KB, and then "expect" that I'm going to cry about it. Come on... its a game... If anyone is going crying over virtual income, they really REALLY need to rethink why they're playing EVE and sinking REAL money into it.

I wonder if these same guys who get beat by NPC players in Civ style games cry when the CPU knocks them on their ass? .. oh.. wait... they just restart the game to avoid "being beat".
GavinCapacitor
CaeIum Incognitum
#239 - 2011-12-19 16:14:45 UTC
First remaps, then the learning skills got removed, and now asking for this?

Next it will be "remove attributes, I don't want to plan a year ahead" etc.

You can take my 3 charisma from my cold, unsubbed, frozen corpse.
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
#240 - 2011-12-19 16:33:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Crumplecorn
GavinCapacitor wrote:
Next it will be "remove attributes, I don't want to plan a year ahead" etc.

You can take my 3 charisma from my cold, unsubbed, frozen corpse.
Funnily enough, Perpetuum (the EVE clone) removed attributes a while back AFAIK.


@OP/Thread: Having to make decisions is part of what makes EVE good. Stop trying to make EVE bad. It was bad enough that the learning skills got removed, this is just farcical.


This is a terrible thread, and we are all terrible people for posting in it.

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