These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE Information Portal

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Dev blog: Politics by Other Means: Sovereignty Phase Two

First post First post First post
Author
Eli Apol
Definitely a nullsec alt
#1941 - 2015-03-05 00:21:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Eli Apol
Mostlyharmlesss wrote:
If the changes goes through like they are now, I'm unironically going to take a 200 man interceptor fleet to Provi and reinforce the entire region in 4 hours.

Sounds like good content creation - then they'll just flip it back 2 days later once you're bored of it - or are you actually then going to commit to fighting there, inhabiting the space and raising the indices yourself?

It'd be great to see Goons come through on this, own the whole map for 2 days if you think you can - I'd be a willing spectator to a player driven event like that.

but what would I know, I'm just a salvager

Mostlyharmlesss
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#1942 - 2015-03-05 00:27:00 UTC
Eli Apol wrote:
Mostlyharmlesss wrote:
If the changes goes through like they are now, I'm unironically going to take a 200 man interceptor fleet to Provi and reinforce the entire region in 4 hours.

Sounds like good content creation - then they'll just flip it back 2 days later once you're bored of it - or are you actually then going to commit to fighting there, inhabiting the space and raising the indices yourself?

It'd be great to see Goons come through on this, own the whole map for 2 days if you think you can - I'd be a willing spectator to a player driven event like that.


You're missing the point. We decide what and where to fight when we're in interceptors. Sure, we might not get all the reinforcement timers but we're going to deny you content other than using Entosis Links.

Follow me on Twitter for the latest regarding GoonSwarm Federation and our recruitment drives!

Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
Goonswarm Federation
#1943 - 2015-03-05 00:28:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Promiscuous Female
afkalt wrote:
Promiscuous Female wrote:
afkalt wrote:
Promiscuous Female wrote:

the inteceptor then shrugs, burns off grid, and hits another node or sov structure, and cannot be stopped if the pilot uses a shred of intellect while burning around a region

you can't bridge around them due to fatigue, you can't warp faster than them, and outside of serious pilot error, they cannot be caught while traveling

stop focusing on the individual fight (especially since you are bad at theorycrafting them)


Again, an empire of APPROPRIATE SIZE will give zero craps about this.

Funny that.

the problem is that the appropriate size to counter interceptor shenanigans increases by ten for every pilot in the opfor

did it occur to you that with our numbers, we can make any defense untenable


Like you did with siphons? The same melodrama was used there. And sure, for a while indeed ....then people got bored

that is because siphons do practically nothing

being able to pop an ihub by using a halitosis module means that you set back the sov index 100 days, wipe out the industrial/military index, and require between one and nine freighters to visit the system, per ihub you pop

this is considerably more significant than making 8m isk/hr with a mandatory twice a day login by siphoning a moon
Eli Apol
Definitely a nullsec alt
#1944 - 2015-03-05 00:30:07 UTC
Mostlyharmlesss wrote:
Eli Apol wrote:
Mostlyharmlesss wrote:
If the changes goes through like they are now, I'm unironically going to take a 200 man interceptor fleet to Provi and reinforce the entire region in 4 hours.

Sounds like good content creation - then they'll just flip it back 2 days later once you're bored of it - or are you actually then going to commit to fighting there, inhabiting the space and raising the indices yourself?

It'd be great to see Goons come through on this, own the whole map for 2 days if you think you can - I'd be a willing spectator to a player driven event like that.


You're missing the point. We decide what and where to fight when we're in interceptors. Sure, we might not get all the reinforcement timers but we're going to deny you content other than using Entosis Links.

So you're gonna provide me content by taking an interceptor roam across provi for four hours and somehow you're going to deny me content... just so I know that you know, what does my main actually do in the game that you're going to deny me of?

but what would I know, I'm just a salvager

Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
Goonswarm Federation
#1945 - 2015-03-05 00:32:54 UTC
Eli Apol wrote:
Mostlyharmlesss wrote:
Eli Apol wrote:
Mostlyharmlesss wrote:
If the changes goes through like they are now, I'm unironically going to take a 200 man interceptor fleet to Provi and reinforce the entire region in 4 hours.

Sounds like good content creation - then they'll just flip it back 2 days later once you're bored of it - or are you actually then going to commit to fighting there, inhabiting the space and raising the indices yourself?

It'd be great to see Goons come through on this, own the whole map for 2 days if you think you can - I'd be a willing spectator to a player driven event like that.


You're missing the point. We decide what and where to fight when we're in interceptors. Sure, we might not get all the reinforcement timers but we're going to deny you content other than using Entosis Links.

So you're gonna provide me content by taking an interceptor roam across provi for four hours and somehow you're going to deny me content... just so I know that you know, what does my main actually do in the game that you're going to deny me of?

won't take us four hours to RF the entire region, just 30 minutes
Aivlis Eldelbar
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#1946 - 2015-03-05 00:35:29 UTC
Just dropping by to rephrase an earlier point after having thought on it.

I am of the opinion that the Entosis modules need to be made either expensive or fitteable by BC and above, including their T2 counterparts. This is to prevent griefing by throwaway ships and fight-farming without an investment of at least a few hundred million isk.

The first way has the benefit of letting players use whatever ships they want, leaving room for crazy fits and experimentation, but has the drawback of requiring more work to make sure there aren't any edge cases where players just bypass the no-warp limitation by just burning into a new grid, and similar lunacy.

The second way would give some new life to the much underused battleship and combat battlecruiser hulls, which are in a terrible place at the moment, as evidenced by the fixed damage graph that has been making the rounds (if you need to split up cruisers into three blocks so they don't look dominating, you're doing something wrong)



Also, timers. They are way too short for occupied systems, and the fact that indy indexes are 0 on average across New Eden only makes matters worse. I live in Providence, a very populated and active region by any metric, and our indy indexes are near 0, military ones are mediocre outside of ratting pockets. For me this is not a case of "go defend you space or lose it", but a case of "all my active playing time is gonna be spent chasing off trolls from different blocs armed with sov lasers". As your numbers stand right now, it's too easy for a neverending stream of bored people to come and threaten our space and station services for little risk, and even if we kill them all, all we get are a bunch of sub-50m killmails and no time to do anything else during our primetime, while out-of-primetime pilots suffer the opposite situation.
Proton Stars
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1947 - 2015-03-05 00:35:46 UTC
Promiscuous Female wrote:
Eli Apol wrote:
Mostlyharmlesss wrote:
Eli Apol wrote:
Mostlyharmlesss wrote:
If the changes goes through like they are now, I'm unironically going to take a 200 man interceptor fleet to Provi and reinforce the entire region in 4 hours.

Sounds like good content creation - then they'll just flip it back 2 days later once you're bored of it - or are you actually then going to commit to fighting there, inhabiting the space and raising the indices yourself?

It'd be great to see Goons come through on this, own the whole map for 2 days if you think you can - I'd be a willing spectator to a player driven event like that.


You're missing the point. We decide what and where to fight when we're in interceptors. Sure, we might not get all the reinforcement timers but we're going to deny you content other than using Entosis Links.

So you're gonna provide me content by taking an interceptor roam across provi for four hours and somehow you're going to deny me content... just so I know that you know, what does my main actually do in the game that you're going to deny me of?

won't take us four hours to RF the entire region, just 30 minutes




Not sure I'd call 200 interceptors avoiding me in my space content tbh.
Dyphorus
Inritus Astrum
#1948 - 2015-03-05 00:37:00 UTC
Edward Olmops wrote:


Suggestion:
FORCE alliances to choose one DIFFERENT time window for each constellation where they hold sov.
Implications:.......



This should be added to the new system. I like the overall plan that CCP is working towards, this adds scaling based on the size of the alliance and amount of space they would like to hold. It also clears up a lot of the complaints about having to limit alliances to a single TZ.

On another note, it's interesting to see that the loudest voices crying out against this are groups that hold huge swaths of space that sits empty 99% of the time. Considering this is exactly the problem CCP is trying to correct, the new plan appears to hit pretty close to the mark to elicit such a strong reaction.

I also love the idea of spreading a fight out over a constellation. It astounds me that people think this sounds less fun that 4000 pilots sitting in a system, at 10% TIDI, hitting F1 once every 5 minutes.
Eli Apol
Definitely a nullsec alt
#1949 - 2015-03-05 00:37:03 UTC
Promiscuous Female wrote:
won't take us four hours to RF the entire region, just 30 minutes

brb putting some ewar frigs on the market in provi

but what would I know, I'm just a salvager

Devi Loches
Academia Solutus
#1950 - 2015-03-05 00:37:11 UTC
Eli Apol wrote:
Mostlyharmlesss wrote:
If the changes goes through like they are now, I'm unironically going to take a 200 man interceptor fleet to Provi and reinforce the entire region in 4 hours.

Sounds like good content creation - then they'll just flip it back 2 days later once you're bored of it - or are you actually then going to commit to fighting there, inhabiting the space and raising the indices yourself?

It'd be great to see Goons come through on this, own the whole map for 2 days if you think you can - I'd be a willing spectator to a player driven event like that.


Since TCU won't have a cost attached to it, this seriously can happen. They can go around, blow up all the iHubs, plant TCUs everywhere, and force all stations into freeport mode. The fact that you think Goons aren't a threat and this is a joke shows you don't realize why small alliances don't like these changes. It supports slash and burn tactics.
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
Goonswarm Federation
#1951 - 2015-03-05 00:37:36 UTC
Proton Stars wrote:
Promiscuous Female wrote:
won't take us four hours to RF the entire region, just 30 minutes




Not sure I'd call 200 interceptors avoiding me in my space content tbh.

agreed

i dunno if y'all noticed but if at any point a goonswarm federation fleet creates "content" we have failed in our primary objective

(we fail quite a bit of course but hey the struggle of man is to continually try to meet the platonic ideal, even if you never get there)
Eli Apol
Definitely a nullsec alt
#1952 - 2015-03-05 00:39:49 UTC
Proton Stars wrote:
Not sure I'd call 200 interceptors avoiding me in my space content tbh.

See this is why I asked if they could even hazard a guess at what my mains do...do they live in provi? Maybe I'm a goon spy? Maybe I live in a wormhole...or highsec...or lowsec? I mean the threat was that they were going to deny me content yet they don't even have a clue where I live in the game, let alone what I get upto which is lolworthy especially when I know I was on their intel channels in goonspace over the last few days :D

but what would I know, I'm just a salvager

Alavaria Fera
Imperial Shipment
#1953 - 2015-03-05 00:42:43 UTC
Promiscuous Female wrote:
Proton Stars wrote:
Promiscuous Female wrote:
won't take us four hours to RF the entire region, just 30 minutes

Not sure I'd call 200 interceptors avoiding me in my space content tbh.

agreed

i dunno if y'all noticed but if at any point a goonswarm federation fleet creates "content" we have failed in our primary objective

(we fail quite a bit of course but hey the struggle of man is to continually try to meet the platonic ideal, even if you never get there)

Just because we fail frequently doesn't mean others automatically win.

Otherwise our 0.0 nightmare would've ended already

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
Goonswarm Federation
#1954 - 2015-03-05 00:43:55 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Promiscuous Female wrote:
Proton Stars wrote:
Promiscuous Female wrote:
won't take us four hours to RF the entire region, just 30 minutes

Not sure I'd call 200 interceptors avoiding me in my space content tbh.

agreed

i dunno if y'all noticed but if at any point a goonswarm federation fleet creates "content" we have failed in our primary objective

(we fail quite a bit of course but hey the struggle of man is to continually try to meet the platonic ideal, even if you never get there)

Just because we fail frequently doesn't mean others automatically win.

Otherwise our 0.0 nightmare would've ended already

I meant fail at denying the creation of "content", not whatever strategic objective is at play
Mostlyharmlesss
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#1955 - 2015-03-05 00:52:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Mostlyharmlesss
Eli Apol wrote:
Mostlyharmlesss wrote:
Eli Apol wrote:
Mostlyharmlesss wrote:
If the changes goes through like they are now, I'm unironically going to take a 200 man interceptor fleet to Provi and reinforce the entire region in 4 hours.

Sounds like good content creation - then they'll just flip it back 2 days later once you're bored of it - or are you actually then going to commit to fighting there, inhabiting the space and raising the indices yourself?

It'd be great to see Goons come through on this, own the whole map for 2 days if you think you can - I'd be a willing spectator to a player driven event like that.


You're missing the point. We decide what and where to fight when we're in interceptors. Sure, we might not get all the reinforcement timers but we're going to deny you content other than using Entosis Links.

So you're gonna provide me content by taking an interceptor roam across provi for four hours and somehow you're going to deny me content... just so I know that you know, what does my main actually do in the game that you're going to deny me of?


No, that's the point. We're not going to provide any content to whatever alliance holds the space. We're going to take their sov with an interceptor fleet because we dictate the battles and they will be unable to catch all of us (If any at all cause lolinterceptors). Which is essentially almost like Dominion sov where n+1 always wins.

Follow me on Twitter for the latest regarding GoonSwarm Federation and our recruitment drives!

Rain6637
NulzSec
#1956 - 2015-03-05 00:52:50 UTC
Ranamar wrote:
Actually... can we get a clarification on whether the increase in Entosis cycle time on capitals increases the time it takes them to capture, or if it only increases the time it takes them to start capturing?

I'm pretty sure it translates into a longer run-up time, but the same effect as subcapital Entosis after that.
Gorgof Intake
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1957 - 2015-03-05 00:53:00 UTC
I really wish someone from CCP would jump in here and give us a #rough# idea of whether or not frigs will be able to fit these things so we can actually move the discussion forward rather than shitpost each other about how big our 'hammers' are and how we can go ownzone the world in ceptors cos we are that kewl and shtuff.

FlameOfSurvival
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#1958 - 2015-03-05 00:54:39 UTC
Sure we need Sov changes

but

where is the risk for the attacker? this is just an annyoing system that force sov holder to constantly show up to timers just because a random pubby RFed a system just 4 fun

increase the module price up to 100m-500m or let this module only be fitted on caps or increase the timer by 3x-8x
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#1959 - 2015-03-05 00:58:06 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
After discussing the early feedback with the team here, we've decided to begin this feedback and iteration process with a focus on the time zone mechanics. We're seeing a ton of discussion and quite a bit of displeasure over the time zone mechanics as they are laid out in the blog.
So you're going to see us asking a lot of questions in a number of different areas to the players who have opinions on the way we handle time zones in Sov. The goal is to get to the core of the concerns people are expressing about these mechanics, figure out what player needs we are missing in this draft, and see if we can't design a system that meets more of those needs more effectively. I don't expect we're going to make everybody happy, as time zone mechanics are one of the stickiest design issues in a worldwide single shard MMO. However we do think it's likely that your feedback can help get us to a better design than what we have right now.



Compromise:
use a dynamic time zone based on login pattern (or maybe the time of activity) of the occupants so that one forms over time. This will give a reason to have due diligence in an organization that crosses time zones. So some would for having put in the work have a longer span than would an organization of "10 guys from Liverpool" who all play for a short while after closing the pub.

It would be natural. When I go trespassing in wormholes, I use the existing tools to get the goods on who is already in there and learn what their time zone is and what their "span" is. It makes the difference of being able to leisurely find my way out or being chased by "20 Russian Tengues" every time I log in.


Bring back DEEEEP Space!

Eli Apol
Definitely a nullsec alt
#1960 - 2015-03-05 00:58:44 UTC
Mostlyharmlesss wrote:
No, that's the point. We're not going to provide any content to whatever alliance holds the space. We're going to take their sov with an interceptor fleet because we dictate the battles and they will be unable to catch all of us. Which is essentially almost like Dominion sov where n+1 always wins.

You can't dictate a battle when you're all in ships that do <100 dps. Sure you can cyno some caps in to one or two systems at a time, maybe even try moving them through gates to assist in multiple command point fights but when you're dedicating your numbers into essentially useless combat hulls you won't be able to hold a grid to complete your RFs or captures without bringing in reinforcements in far more killable ships.

but what would I know, I'm just a salvager