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Dev blog: Politics by Other Means: Sovereignty Phase Two

First post First post First post
Author
Devi Loches
Academia Solutus
#1921 - 2015-03-04 23:56:06 UTC
Eli Apol wrote:
afkalt wrote:
These phantom interceptors threats are nothing short of a nonsense if you live in your space.

Precisely, it's no surprise that they're being hyped up as gamebreaking by TMC and on this thread - it's because goons don't want them to threaten their sprawl and want to get rid of them now.

I have no connection to Goons whatsoever. I live in a single constellation that my alliance owns. I'm worried about these interceptors trolling and keeping me from being able to go have real fights by either swatting at them or endlessly counter-camping.
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
Goonswarm Federation
#1922 - 2015-03-04 23:58:02 UTC
afkalt wrote:
Promiscuous Female wrote:
it doesn't have to beat the orthrus, just not die to it until the artosis link finishes the job

also i do like that you are having to use a 280m ship and 750m of implants to kill a 20m frig with an 80m module



Or I could use a cheapass cruiser and block the link....


Stop the melodrama. Interceptors threaten sprawling, indefensible empires. NOTHING MORE.

Stop being bad, stop derailing with FUD about "trollceptors" and maybe we can all get a decent future.


These phantom interceptors threats are nothing short of a nonsense if you live in your space.

the inteceptor then shrugs, burns off grid, and hits another node or sov structure, and cannot be stopped if the pilot uses a shred of intellect while burning around a region

you can't bridge around them due to fatigue, you can't warp faster than them, and outside of serious pilot error, they cannot be caught while traveling

stop focusing on the individual fight (especially since you are bad at theorycrafting them)
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#1923 - 2015-03-04 23:58:14 UTC
Devi Loches wrote:
Eli Apol wrote:
afkalt wrote:
These phantom interceptors threats are nothing short of a nonsense if you live in your space.

Precisely, it's no surprise that they're being hyped up as gamebreaking by TMC and on this thread - it's because goons don't want them to threaten their sprawl and want to get rid of them now.

I have no connection to Goons whatsoever. I live in a single constellation that my alliance owns. I'm worried about these interceptors trolling and keeping me from being able to go have real fights by either swatting at them or endlessly counter-camping.



What, all 4 hours of "prime time" YOU DICTATE?

The horror you might have a 4 hour kill farming window.

WOE IS ME.
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
Goonswarm Federation
#1924 - 2015-03-04 23:59:07 UTC
Uncle Shrimpa wrote:
Aryth wrote:

This is going to heavily incentivize ice-bergging again. The timers basically need to preserve 2-3 fights before huge consequences (freeport) and have a FAR bigger bonus to high indexes. A 5/5 index system should take at least 1 hour if not 2. At least until someone fixes freaking industry indexes god.



That fact that it takes 50 hulks several hours a day to maintain level 5 index vs a few ratter a couples hours a day to maintain military index is so far into the stupid category it isn't funny

That and you spent how many months revamping Industry, then screwed it up by removing teams with NO restitution, NOW you plan on implementing a sov mechanic based on occupancy and don't take into account ANY industry that goes on in a system.

So basically, shoot red X's or you are ****

agreed

manufacturing, research, PI, pos reactors (not mining) and hacking mini-game sites should all contribute to the industrial index
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#1925 - 2015-03-04 23:59:49 UTC
Promiscuous Female wrote:
afkalt wrote:
Promiscuous Female wrote:
it doesn't have to beat the orthrus, just not die to it until the artosis link finishes the job

also i do like that you are having to use a 280m ship and 750m of implants to kill a 20m frig with an 80m module



Or I could use a cheapass cruiser and block the link....


Stop the melodrama. Interceptors threaten sprawling, indefensible empires. NOTHING MORE.

Stop being bad, stop derailing with FUD about "trollceptors" and maybe we can all get a decent future.


These phantom interceptors threats are nothing short of a nonsense if you live in your space.

the inteceptor then shrugs, burns off grid, and hits another node or sov structure, and cannot be stopped if the pilot uses a shred of intellect while burning around a region

you can't bridge around them due to fatigue, you can't warp faster than them, and outside of serious pilot error, they cannot be caught while traveling

stop focusing on the individual fight (especially since you are bad at theorycrafting them)


Again, an empire of APPROPRIATE SIZE will give zero craps about this.

Funny that.
Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#1926 - 2015-03-05 00:00:15 UTC
Kochab Itinen wrote:
With this revamp, small scale ships will be promoted in null sec. To be honest, I don't want a copy-paste of the low-sec factionnal warfare in null sec.

RIP capital ships ?



There will still be a big fight over who gets their entosis link on the command modules and other structures. We may not shoot other structures, but we will shoot each other. If 2 fleets are fighting each other escalations are bound to happen.

One brings triage, one brings dreads, one brings supers etc. Next thing you know B-R v2 happens
Eli Apol
Definitely a nullsec alt
#1927 - 2015-03-05 00:01:15 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
Devi Loches wrote:
I have no connection to Goons whatsoever. I live in a single constellation that my alliance owns. I'm worried about these interceptors trolling and keeping me from being able to go have real fights by either swatting at them or endlessly counter-camping.
Endlessly... for four hours in the actual space you're actively using anyways.

*Snip* Removed a reply to a deleted post. ISD Ezwal.

but what would I know, I'm just a salvager

Lord TGR
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1928 - 2015-03-05 00:02:16 UTC
afkalt wrote:
Promiscuous Female wrote:
afkalt wrote:
Promiscuous Female wrote:
it doesn't have to beat the orthrus, just not die to it until the artosis link finishes the job

also i do like that you are having to use a 280m ship and 750m of implants to kill a 20m frig with an 80m module



Or I could use a cheapass cruiser and block the link....


Stop the melodrama. Interceptors threaten sprawling, indefensible empires. NOTHING MORE.

Stop being bad, stop derailing with FUD about "trollceptors" and maybe we can all get a decent future.


These phantom interceptors threats are nothing short of a nonsense if you live in your space.

the inteceptor then shrugs, burns off grid, and hits another node or sov structure, and cannot be stopped if the pilot uses a shred of intellect while burning around a region

you can't bridge around them due to fatigue, you can't warp faster than them, and outside of serious pilot error, they cannot be caught while traveling

stop focusing on the individual fight (especially since you are bad at theorycrafting them)


Again, an empire of APPROPRIATE SIZE will give zero craps about this.

Funny that.

I'm confident that we've got enough manpower to give "zero craps" about this, and that if anything, we're actually trying to point out an actual problem which'll affect other, smaller groups than us to a much greater degree.

But that'd be ludicrous, right? Because grrgoons.
Devi Loches
Academia Solutus
#1929 - 2015-03-05 00:03:09 UTC
afkalt wrote:
Devi Loches wrote:
Eli Apol wrote:
afkalt wrote:
These phantom interceptors threats are nothing short of a nonsense if you live in your space.

Precisely, it's no surprise that they're being hyped up as gamebreaking by TMC and on this thread - it's because goons don't want them to threaten their sprawl and want to get rid of them now.

I have no connection to Goons whatsoever. I live in a single constellation that my alliance owns. I'm worried about these interceptors trolling and keeping me from being able to go have real fights by either swatting at them or endlessly counter-camping.



What, all 4 hours of "prime time" YOU DICTATE?

The horror you might have a 4 hour kill farming window.

WOE IS ME.


The primetime window is terrible too. Basically, I'm against a system that requires significantly less time and isk investment to attack and harass than defend. And if you want to camp your own system during your main playtime, then go ahead. My 'primetime' is more valuable to me than being forced to sit around and protect a flag from a couple cloaky campers or interceptors that have no real intention of trying to take and hold sov that I actually live in.
Mr Omniblivion
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#1930 - 2015-03-05 00:04:50 UTC
Lord TGR wrote:
I'm confident that we've got enough manpower to give "zero craps" about this, and that if anything, we're actually trying to point out an actual problem which'll affect other, smaller groups than us to a much greater degree.

But that'd be ludicrous, right? Because grrgoons.


Shhh, stop helping them.

We approve of all of these changes 100%.
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
Goonswarm Federation
#1931 - 2015-03-05 00:04:57 UTC
afkalt wrote:
Promiscuous Female wrote:

the inteceptor then shrugs, burns off grid, and hits another node or sov structure, and cannot be stopped if the pilot uses a shred of intellect while burning around a region

you can't bridge around them due to fatigue, you can't warp faster than them, and outside of serious pilot error, they cannot be caught while traveling

stop focusing on the individual fight (especially since you are bad at theorycrafting them)


Again, an empire of APPROPRIATE SIZE will give zero craps about this.

Funny that.

the problem is that the appropriate size to counter interceptor shenanigans increases by ten for every pilot in the opfor

did it occur to you that with our numbers, we can make any defense untenable
Studio Ghibli
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#1932 - 2015-03-05 00:08:01 UTC
Provi-resident here.

I like it. Gives me the impression that coalitions will have to be (1) smaller and (2) be more philosophically-aligned, but I could also simply be a Provi-bear.

Combat and ownership seem more fluid, too.

The time-zone thing needs work. And this does really force the issue of afk cloakies. Tie the entosis link to a specific hull or hull-size or something.
Devi Loches
Academia Solutus
#1933 - 2015-03-05 00:08:04 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
Eli Apol wrote:
Devi Loches wrote:
I have no connection to Goons whatsoever. I live in a single constellation that my alliance owns. I'm worried about these interceptors trolling and keeping me from being able to go have real fights by either swatting at them or endlessly counter-camping.
Endlessly... for four hours in the actual space you're actively using anyways.

*Snip* Removed a reply to a deleted post. ISD Ezwal.


The goal of defense isn't to bait attackers to fight, it's the other way around. Sitting at zero with anything for defense is basically iceberging. The goal isn't to create more camping, but actual fights. Interceptors are one way to show that this does not actually create dynamic fights.
Princess Cherista
Doomheim
#1934 - 2015-03-05 00:09:20 UTC
The uncatchable interceptor has without a doubt been the worst change in recent years What?
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
Goonswarm Federation
#1935 - 2015-03-05 00:10:20 UTC
hardlock all ships to min 3s align except shuttle and pod until the game can handle 500ms ticks

boom i fixed eve

Eli Apol
Definitely a nullsec alt
#1936 - 2015-03-05 00:13:11 UTC
Devi Loches wrote:
The goal of defense isn't to bait attackers to fight, it's the other way around. Sitting at zero with anything for defense is basically iceberging. The goal isn't to create more camping, but actual fights. Interceptors are one way to show that this does not actually create dynamic fights.

Attackers SHOULD have the initiative in conflict. Defenders SHOULD be reactive. It's kinda the way these things generally work.

The interceptors ALWAYS have a choice to engage the defender that is forced to come out of their station and react to their presence.

Then you can try to bait them into attacking the wrong ship at the wrong time if you want and turn the tables. If you want more pvp yourself, go out and attack other people, force them to come and defend their territory and get some GFs of your own.

but what would I know, I'm just a salvager

Proton Stars
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1937 - 2015-03-05 00:15:14 UTC
Anyone who thinks these changes damage goons, especially when they owns region like deklien that is fantastically dense is equally dense.

The cfc may contract a little sure, but into something more powerful than they are now. As weaker alliances like fcon, sma and Fa shrink and snuggle up to goons borders. Meaning goons can be protected by their blues whilst on deployment and visa versa. In fact cfc are Proberbly the only entity in eve now that can both hold space and conquer it at the same time. Pretty damn scary for anyone trying to start out in 0.0 because if you look half decent, you'll be wiped out before you can build by a SIG.
Mostlyharmlesss
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#1938 - 2015-03-05 00:17:28 UTC
If the changes goes through like they are now, I'm unironically going to take a 200 man interceptor fleet to Provi and reinforce the entire region in 4 hours.

Follow me on Twitter for the latest regarding GoonSwarm Federation and our recruitment drives!

Vajrabhairava
Perkone
Caldari State
#1939 - 2015-03-05 00:20:41 UTC
Leisha Miranen wrote:

#1) Who wants coalitions gone? I like coalitions, personally. I've never seen anyone whining that coalitions are the issue.


Um, anyone who talks about the Blue donut is complaining about coalitions.
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#1940 - 2015-03-05 00:21:13 UTC
Promiscuous Female wrote:
afkalt wrote:
Promiscuous Female wrote:

the inteceptor then shrugs, burns off grid, and hits another node or sov structure, and cannot be stopped if the pilot uses a shred of intellect while burning around a region

you can't bridge around them due to fatigue, you can't warp faster than them, and outside of serious pilot error, they cannot be caught while traveling

stop focusing on the individual fight (especially since you are bad at theorycrafting them)


Again, an empire of APPROPRIATE SIZE will give zero craps about this.

Funny that.

the problem is that the appropriate size to counter interceptor shenanigans increases by ten for every pilot in the opfor

did it occur to you that with our numbers, we can make any defense untenable


Like you did with siphons? The same melodrama was used there. And sure, for a while indeed ....then people got bored