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Dev blog: Politics by Other Means: Sovereignty Phase Two

First post First post First post
Rayzilla Zaraki
Yin Jian Enterprises
#721 - 2015-03-03 21:57:01 UTC
This is all really cool stuff but the whole concept of prime time seems a little bit too much like *magic*.

Gate campers are just Carebears with anger issues.

Russian Thunder Squad
#722 - 2015-03-03 21:58:15 UTC
Jarn Skjoldr wrote:
OK look, CCP, I like where you tried to go with this, but there are some major problems you need to fix.

1) The 4 hour vulnerability window is way too short; doing what one of the other commenters suggested and turning it around into an 8 to 12 hour "safe" window would be a much better idea.

2) Instead of having *all* an alliance's timers set for a single window, why not allow different timers to be set depending on the region? With the jump fatigue mechanic now in place and jump clone timers at a minimum of 19 hours, alliances still wouldn't be able to jump back and forth across their space very easily and this might be a good way to allow different time zones to still participate if you decide to keep the 4 hour vulnerable idea. Have different time zones defending different regions.

3) The T2 Entosis link range is insane and the fact that ships can move while using one is even more so. The T2 Entosis link range should be brought down to double the T1 and both of them should immobilize the ship using it like a triage, siege, or bastion module does. I don't particularly like that it's a highslot either.

4) I've played FW heavily on another account and so I know firsthand how PvP anomalies can generate PvP. So while I like the idea of command nodes, I hate the fact that they're scattered across an entire constellation. My corp owns a single system, and that's all we want. We don't want to have to fly around an entire constellation to protect our single system. The best FW combat is always based on contesting of a single system in PvP anoms in that system, and nullsec command nodes should follow the same model. You say the goal of these changes is to allow smaller entities a shot at sov, but what you're really doing is telling us is that we either need to be big enough to take an entire constellation or we should just go home.

5) These sov changes make it a lot easier to lose your Sov without giving any matching value to owning sov. Like one of the other commenters said, make Sov indexes give bonuses to mining yields and rat bounties or something, anything, that adds more value to owning a crappy nullsec system over highsec missioning.

6) Sov warfare is a huge part of what makes capital ships useful. I'm really glad that you're trying to produce a sov model where owning capital ships isn't required, but eliminating their use entirely is a slap in the face to those of us who spent half a year training into them and billions of ISK buying them. They need to have some function. I'm not saying they should be an "I Win" button as they currently are, but there should be some advantage to having them vs not having them

1 - agree
2 - discussable, but if you have a bigger attack window - why bother?
3 - use ECM, webs, sniper-fits. small ships will need to lock on the sov-unit to capture it, thus coming close. Bigger ships lock further but are easier to hit. and no rem-reps, remeber?
4 - you'r in an alliance. you are not holding a system by means of a single corp. alliance claims a const and distributes the systems between corps. Also, if you play active in your system - enemies have a 40 MINUTE cycle. Kill it.
5 - people capture sov, people rent sov and pay billions per month. probly there IS something there already?
6 - no one is eliminating those. Spread your capitals, use them to support fleets, block gates, 1000 more uses and no blobs.
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#723 - 2015-03-03 21:58:33 UTC
Arrendis wrote:
Altirius Saldiaro wrote:
I believe it does force you to be there till the cycle ends like a cyno.

But, based on what the devblog said, it doesn't force you to come to a stop, unlike a cyno, triage, or siege module.

" run away, run away, run away" Arther King of the Britains
Irya Boone
The Scope
#724 - 2015-03-03 21:59:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Irya Boone
no siege , the all point is to a let MObile small group to be able to .. you know

and if the are stucked in one place because of siege mechanic of the entosis then there is no point of all of this.
Let the 200Km and let the ship move ( reduce velocity maybe ? increase sig radius? ) but no siege/stop/ anchor etc etc)

But CCp really need to work on the rewards of owning a Sov ( give bonuses to bounties, belts , ice? etc etc )

CCP it's time to remove Off Grid Boost and Put Them on Killmail too, add Logi on killmails .... Open that damn door !!

you shall all bow and pray BoB

Test Alliance Please Ignore
#725 - 2015-03-03 22:02:37 UTC
Querns wrote:
Green Medics wrote:
since we are going to start talking about mixing industry index with sov activity can PI have some kind of effect on the industry index?

Another good suggestion for industrial index.

To reiterate:

ArrowIndustrial index as a function of mining only discounts a significant portion of Occupancy activities that should meaningfully be derived into defense. Allow manufacturing, research, POS reactors, PI, and exploration mini-games to increase a system's industrial index in addition to mining.

I agree. There is much more to industry than mining. POS reactions, PI, manufacturing and research are all industrial activities. Exploration site spawn more based on an IHUB upgrade. So I can even see that getting thrown into the mix. But the easiest part to add would simply be a multiplier based on the system industrial index.

Very Industrial Corp.
Legion of xXDEATHXx
#726 - 2015-03-03 22:02:45 UTC
great work CCP.
welcome to new MOBA EVE \o/
Nig C
Gallente Federation
#727 - 2015-03-03 22:03:01 UTC

have read every letter... well done so far... carry on

Ryan Air
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#728 - 2015-03-03 22:04:23 UTC
I'm going to TRY and be as constructive as possible, especially since I have no better clue about how to fix Sov then you all seem to. Here are the problems with your capture the flag that I've seen within the first few minutes of reading this.

Time zones: you have created a system that will force time zones into a specific role. Either attackers or defenders. Those of us "in between" guys are being left out (I live in Alaska for instance). We will see even bigger collations (NC. EU, NC. US, NC. AU, ect) to make this work or it would pointless to be in a multi timezone alliance. A possible fix for this is to make it so corps can pick the vulnerability window, not the alliance.

Lazer sov hacker modules: this trips me out. You guys force a single solution with this (as it stands). Cepters orbit at 250k. No fight, no problem. Get three or four cepter guys per group and watch them go out reinforce a region with virtually no way to stop them all. My first though was to find a ship that can survive the 2 or 10 min activating time, of course that would be marauders, ****, Aeon or Wyvern. You have forced two separate types of game play. No in-between. Either a brawl fest ( goons) or a cepter fest. After that, it becomes a "meet me on the undock) mentality or again, orbit the station and try and catch me. The risks make choice quite simple, cepters all the way. The rewards don't seem to be there at all. Why? Why do this? Most of us want fights. Not just good fights but fights for a reason.

The biggest lack of resources in the game is decent FC's. Now, unless you get some guys who casually play cepters(no offense cepter dudes at all but my 120 mil SP wants something other then that) taking "flags", you need 10's of FC's per time zone for the battles. I realize the server strain and am utterly amazed about how you created a game that has the capability to field thousands of players in a single fight.

Capitals, I know you guys haven't "balanced" them yet but wow...way to really make me feel unimportant. Number one goal for a lot of people is to fly the biggest, baddest ship in the game. We spent YEARS...myself 8 years making that action possible. We ARE your player base that has stuck with you through the years.

As I said, I really don't have a better idea but I don't think capture the flag (as it stands) will work at all.
Vincent Athena
#729 - 2015-03-03 22:05:11 UTC
How far can an interceptor target anyway? I doubt there is any fit that gets it to 250 km.

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Liga der hessischen Gentlemen
#730 - 2015-03-03 22:05:38 UTC
Czan Olmzi wrote:
Helios Panala wrote:
Alliances need to be able to set 'prime-time' on a per structure basis so that groups spread across multiple timezones can be given content, at the very least you can have your different TZs defending different borders.

Other than that looks good to me.

Yes. If the prime-time window could be set differently for each system or structure, rather than one time across the whole alliance then alliances with multiple TZs would naturally set primes-times, proportionally, according to the number of members they have in each TZ, not only to provide content for each TZ but to eliminate the need to protect ALL its space during one prime-time. Is this not a very obvious solution? I can't claim to be an authority on the current system but for the proposed changes this would seem to make sense. Am I missing something?

If each structure has its own prime time, prime times will be evenly spread out in order to minimize the occurrence of multiple capture events at the same time.

Choice of prime time will not be a realistic reflection of when most people are online, but it will be a purely strategic decision, geared towards annoyance and attrition; at least that's what I would do.

I would rather have the prime time of each system be determined by actual activity. Someone has already proposed a seven day rolling average measurement.
Aralyn Cormallen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#731 - 2015-03-03 22:06:28 UTC
JohnMonty wrote:
"Defenders will also often enjoy the benefits of jump bridges,"

Best line in the whole thing lol

That one did give me a giggle too. I'm wondering if the author was deliberately putting gags in the text to see if people were paying attension.
Jack Hayson
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#732 - 2015-03-03 22:08:05 UTC
Zaporozh wrote:
Its going to make Multi TZ alliance be useless since the timers will only come out at one time...

... and cause them to break up into smaller ones.
Sounds like it's working as intended. Roll
Vic Jefferson
#733 - 2015-03-03 22:08:16 UTC
Potential and current sov line members need a reason to care about the space. It's good that people have to be active to defend, at least in principle, but as others have outlined, so long as its easier to source income elsewhere, no one will care about actually being in sov space. Why go through all the effort to defend something I could have for free elsewhere?

Say I wanted to up my game and motivate about 120 people to go stake out a claim in what is currently renter space. We figure out where is best to attack largely based on timezone, before people begin to question the wisdom of having space; couldn't we just use FW/L4/Incursion alts to make very similar income? No matter how we are fighting, it won't really matter unless there are things to fight over. Individual systems need to be able to support more players with income competitive above Hi Sec.

Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X.....XI.....XII?

epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#734 - 2015-03-03 22:08:34 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
How far can an interceptor target anyway? I doubt there is any fit that gets it to 250 km.

Surely if one side brings an interceptor there is nothing stopping the other side doing it too, then it is paused and no change and the interceptors chase each other until one is dead, or bring a friend, either works?

Or was there something unclear about that in the blog?

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE

Katrin BarRiona
Toxic Squadron
Northern Coalition.
#735 - 2015-03-03 22:08:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Katrin BarRiona
Welcome to world of spaceships? Where i can find elf 90+ lvl...
Great job.
KC Kamikaze
Great Blue Balls of Fire
#736 - 2015-03-03 22:09:51 UTC
The interceptor scenario is bullshit.

put your own intercepter on the sov unit and until one of your groups man up and bring a fleet it's a big circle jerk stalemate.

Or are you guys saying that your so bear minded and risk averse that you will just let interceptors reinforce all your structures that you blame ccp and call it a flawed mechanic? Roll
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#737 - 2015-03-03 22:10:20 UTC
Aralyn Cormallen wrote:
JohnMonty wrote:
"Defenders will also often enjoy the benefits of jump bridges,"

Best line in the whole thing lol

That one did give me a giggle too. I'm wondering if the author was deliberately putting gags in the text to see if people were paying attension.

30 Day Jump Fatigue supremacy checking in.
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#738 - 2015-03-03 22:12:36 UTC
Aungverdal wrote:
great work CCP.
welcome to new MOBA EVE \o/

Goonswarm structures are reinforced fortified
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#739 - 2015-03-03 22:13:11 UTC  |  Edited by: KelSaor
I am seeing very little reason why anyone would want to hold 0.0 sov except for the moon income. Your system makes 0.0 the riskiest place to live (which I agree it should be) but doesnt offer anything over just mission running in highsec and fighting in lowsec.

The 4 hour timer is always a bad mechanic, no in fact its terrible. Sorry guys, only one tz gets to play 0.0, the rest of you just go back to ratting or on a pointless roam.

Bye bye supers, no point to them now.

...and we all move to NPC space.
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
#740 - 2015-03-03 22:14:23 UTC
Read it. Need to chew it. So far it seems Fozzie and Team Five 0 read threadnaught about sov :)
It will be hard to defend empty systems. Lots of opportunities for those who want to own part of space.
If this is part 2 what will be in part 3?

"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville