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Dev blog: Politics by Other Means: Sovereignty Phase Two

First post First post First post
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#461 - 2015-03-03 18:55:33 UTC
Callic Veratar wrote:
Bubble immune 2-second align 250km locking 10mn MWD interceptors really are the bane of this new sov model.

i hope your not serious i cant tell anymore here
Eli Apol
Definitely a nullsec alt
#462 - 2015-03-03 18:55:35 UTC
Callic Veratar wrote:
Bubble immune 2-second align 250km locking 10mn MWD interceptors really are the bane of this new sov model.

Is this new ship that can do all those things at once gonna be a cov ops as well?

but what would I know, I'm just a salvager

harlyq syrokos investment station
Goonswarm Federation
#463 - 2015-03-03 18:57:34 UTC
Querns wrote:
MajorScrewup wrote:
There should be ways to make these indices go down. If nobody uses the space then there should be deterioration to a system where after a few weeks if becomes neutral space .

There are ways to build them up from zero to five for the defenders, which is good and shows that a system is in use by the residents, but the attackers can only keep the level stable by killing everyone there , there should be a means to lower it; either by attacking structures, killing npcs, or by forcing the residents to move somewhere else where lack of activity makes the indices deteriorate.

For military and industrial index, this already occurs. Industrial index in particular is notoriously hard to maintain.

I can confirm this statement I'm like one of of 25 goons that mine so it is hard to keep that index up.
Zedah Zoid
Good Eats
#464 - 2015-03-03 18:57:36 UTC
If mining is going to play a role here (and I think it should) then please, PLEASE, CCP bring back scannable ore sites. Both in WH and Null space. AFK cloakers will be less scary to miners and miners are more likely to get help from combat pilots if they have a least some small chance of seeing the probes that are their impending doom.

Down with ore Anoms, bring back ore Sites. If you must keep ore Anoms in high sec so the noobs can find them on the overlay, then do that but there's no need to handicap everybody in null with the ore Anom mechanic. It's terrible and it makes mining nearly impossible.
Pandemic Legion
#465 - 2015-03-03 18:57:43 UTC
I like everything but the 4 hour window. You're really punishing people who play at offpeak hours with this one. The entire Aus TZ is going to be basically struck from sov warfare through no fault of their own. Double or triple the window at the very least. If you're actively using your sov you should be able to defend it or gain it back without issue.
KIller Wabbit
MEME Thoughts
#466 - 2015-03-03 18:57:50 UTC
Tia Lee wrote:
Congrats, you made conquering sov easier. Now, CCP, you need to create more incentive for people to actually hold sov. Nullsec is where EVE shines! It's everything which is great about EVE in its purest form!

Make holding sov more lucrative! Create a huge migration from highsec to nullsec driven by greed! CCP, you NEED to accomplish this! This is your primary objective! If you manage to do that, EVE will thrive and even grow for many years to come!

There will be a migration. The alliances are going to have to actively court the HiSec carebears.

What's interesting is that I've been hearing that Rorqual pilot recruiting has been on the rise lately.

Sokor Loro
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#467 - 2015-03-03 18:58:06 UTC
My only complaints:

- 4 hr window is too short, and it can really **** over multi-tz alliances (which are most sov nullsec alliances) in terms of content for members. Although prime time is effectively already a de facto mechanic, this just makes it official. It either needs to be 6+ hours or looked at again.

- Frigates with etosis links will be a problem, the range on t2 links will be a problem. Either make it so ships with links activated are immobile or 90% speed reduction like hictors, reduce the range from the absurd 250km, or just ban frigate hulls with them altogether. Or some combination of those three. It's good that a small group or even solo player can create timed content, but it is far too easy and risk-free to do it. Interceptor with sebos and overdrives will be nearly uncatchable.
Goonswarm Federation
#468 - 2015-03-03 18:58:50 UTC
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
Well taking advice from the null posters who did everything within their power to troll up the Hyperion thread for wormhole space, and like them I know less than jack**** about your area of space, I must be uniquely qualified to pontificate about null changes.

Seems like an excellent series of changes.

Is it too early to utter the immortal cry "HTFU"? Too soon?

well, I suppose we will have to amend the people supporting this to "npc corp members, and wormholers who freely admit they don't understand it but just want to troll"
harlyq syrokos investment station
Goonswarm Federation
#469 - 2015-03-03 18:58:53 UTC
Milla Goodpussy wrote:
virm pasuul wrote:
In all this fuss don't forget that destructible player built stargates are coming at some time.
The fanfest is 2 weeks away, there may be stuff in there that ties in to these changes.........

I believe that's going to be only in "NEW SPACE" not the current regions of null sec.. so umm yeah good luck with that wish.

but what about the "idea" of Destructible Outpost/stations in null sec.. i'll wait and laugh at the threadnaught on that topic.

I like the idea of the future exploding stations **** YEAH.
Dradis Aulmais
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#470 - 2015-03-03 18:58:56 UTC
Doesn't change a thing for us.

*clap clap clap*

Love it

Dradis Aulmais, Federal Attorney Number 54896

Free The Scope Three

Callic Veratar
#471 - 2015-03-03 18:59:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Callic Veratar
Querns wrote:
Callic Veratar wrote:
Bubble immune 2-second align 250km locking 10mn MWD interceptors really are the bane of this new sov model.

I still want to see a fit for this that actually works. Feel free to discount tank for it, too.

Obviously, you just put a couple shield extenders on it. They'll go well with the istabs and sensor boosters. Plus whatever hacks you're using to make it all cap stable. Also discounting that the elink makes you unable to warp away for 10-40 minutes.

Yes, the interceptor will be unstoppable by anything not counting pretty much everything.
harlyq syrokos investment station
Goonswarm Federation
#472 - 2015-03-03 19:00:04 UTC
Tsikuu wrote:
Oh look at that Blizzard introduced play to play and now CCP decides to turn EVE into ThemeSov.

Shurley not missing talented people who have jumped ship for other gaming companies?
Shurley NOT lacking in any real experience of playing the game?
Shurley NOT killing EVE one cut at a time.

BRB training up some cepter alts to screw with sov.

Hey take your time you got tell June :)
Goonswarm Federation
#473 - 2015-03-03 19:00:51 UTC
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
Well taking advice from the null posters who did everything within their power to troll up the Hyperion thread for wormhole space, and like them I know less than jack**** about your area of space, I must be uniquely qualified to pontificate about null changes.

Seems like an excellent series of changes.

Is it too early to utter the immortal cry "HTFU"? Too soon?

There is no need to be upset.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

T Rad
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#474 - 2015-03-03 19:01:17 UTC
So, it's all about to kill everithing epic in EVE (cap fleets, shiny and mean T3 fleets, giant fleet fights, etc ) and convert it to 'Space rangers online'.... oh! sorry, 'Rusty Rifters in space Online'? Am I understanding that's right, CCP? ****ing around in bunch of ceptors, capturing systems (just to reset the hubs and ROFL) - is THAT you want 0sec to be? Does any of game designers , who came with this 'ideas' played EVE ( I mean actually playing game, not deleting the game after failing on tutorial missions)?
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#475 - 2015-03-03 19:02:14 UTC
I'm not a null-sec player at all, but I have to say this blog made me seriously want to try going into null-sec once this goes live. In other words, I love this.

Having said that, there are some things that made me frown.

1. Only being able to attack in the defender's prime time. I can see the reasons for this, but this will effectively mean that alliances from different time zones will have a hard time getting into fights. Only during weekends when people have the ability to stay up late will they be able to fight in the defender's timezone. How is an EU prime time going to attack a AU prime time during a weekday for example. There's hardly enough EU people on during that time to make a serious dent. Either the prime time hours need to be expanded (6 to 8 hours) or it needs to go entirely. In fact, wasn't the entire concept of reinforcement designed to deal with time zone differences? This creates two mechanics that do the same thing. Either reinforce, or prime time. Not both.

2. Unless you care about having your alliance name plastered all over the map, TCU's now become the least targeted objective since capturing them does absolutely no benefit (unless you plan on putting up a new station). In fact, it would theoretically be possible to own and lock down an entirely constellation of systems, get their I-Hub indices to max, but still have the system claimed by your enemy. Though I suppose the 25% fuel bonus is a good incentive to attack something that is most likely not going to be defended anyway after the station and I-Hub have already been taken.

3. "Maximum range of 25km for Tech One, 250km for Tech Two."

The f*ck? That's probably the widest difference for any module found in the game. And a 60m isk difference is not enough to cover that gap. At the very least the T2 version should be much more expensive with a range like that, maybe even make it restricted to battleships and capitals.

Other than that I think these changes are absolutely amazing. We'll have to see how much the 'smaller guy' is able to get in on the action in practice, but it can only get better than what we have. If the plans get a little refined, I might have to seriously consider joining a null-sec alliance again. Awesome work!

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Mouth Trumpet Cavalry.
Mouth Trumpet Cavalry
#476 - 2015-03-03 19:04:46 UTC

  1. The industry index should include more things than just just mining. Perhaps industrial jobs, invention jobs, etc?
  2. I dislike the 4 hour window. Structures should be able to be put into reinforced (RF) mode at any time, but come out of the RF mode at the time set by the alliance owning the structure.
  3. The SOV system should give NO notification that someone is using a Entosis Link on any of your structures or that a structure has entered RF mode. That means active defense not reactive defense. If you are truly living in your space and using your space you should have no trouble realizing someone is using a link on one of your structures or that one of your structures has entered RF mode. If you fail to do that then the RF timer countdown that is visible system wide (like POCOs are now) will let you know. If you fail to realize that then you probably deserve to lose your SOV anyway.
KC Kamikaze
#477 - 2015-03-03 19:05:57 UTC
It sounds to me like all the folks complaining about the change simply don't want to fight.

If someone puts a thingy on your station to reinforce it and you put your own thingy on it then the progress is paused. So now you have a battle. Kill their guy and they have to put another one on it. To me it doesn't seem like ceptors will cut it and i think you're overreacting.

This change promotes smaller skirmish fights. Don't be such a whiney bunch of bears.

Real attempts to take sov will still escalate to epic cap fleets and t3 fleets.
Horak Thor
Angry Mustellid
Lost Obsession
#478 - 2015-03-03 19:06:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Horak Thor
I was pretty worried about what you could possibly do to fix null but reservedly excited.

This is better than i could have imagined. Good job CCP role on JUUUUUUNE

Also dat nerf to PL, not really known for its subcap prowess so being hired to take/defend sov is going to be a distant memory.

Edit: I look forward to phase 3 where hopefully additional benefits for holding sov is brought in.


Multispace Technologies Inc
#479 - 2015-03-03 19:07:01 UTC
I zoned out like 20 times reading this and had forgotten 60% of it when I reached the end. Ugh
Vincent Athena
#480 - 2015-03-03 19:07:16 UTC
Why hold Sov: 25% reduction in the cost of running your moon mining POSes, or any other POSes. If that's not enough of a reason, then don't set a TCU. Just hold your station and IHUB.

Worries about this turning the game into whack-a-mole, chasing small groups or single ships all over the place: Consider consolidating your members into fewer systems. With fewer systems to defend, only a small fraction of the members will need to be on defense duty at any given time. The rest are free to go do whatever. Remember, you can stop a reinforcement attempt just by shooting the structure with your own Entosis link. You do not need to kill the attacker.

Worries about time zones: Join an alliance in your time zone, and go attack those alliances that are also in your time zone. Actually, this seems to be a big issue. It could well result in Null fracturing into blocks, each operating in its own time zone. Sov will swap around inside each block, but rarely will there be a swap from one block to another. It's almost like sharding Null.

The thing is, I have yet to hear a good alternative. Make it random? Then sov changes on the luck of the time slot draw. Make the first attack able to happen at any time? Then the game becomes even more of whack-a-mole, with defenders having to go capture 10 nodes for every out-of-time zone gang that shows up. Make it up to the attackers? Too much advantage.

Renters: Just change from "Renting" to a protection racket. "Yes, you will be holding Sov in the systems we are renting to you. But either pay us the rent fee, or we will squish you".

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