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Dev blog: Politics by Other Means: Sovereignty Phase Two

First post First post First post
Author
Aiyshimin
Descendant Command
#3961 - 2015-03-28 08:23:19 UTC
Posting these questions again, as players are already planning their tactics and strategies for the summer, we deserve some more information.

Aiyshimin wrote:
Some specific questions on the Command Node capture event:


  • Are the Command Nodes in deadspace? (like Large FW complexes)
  • Is the exact victory condition for the event just "whoever first completes 10 nodes"?
  • Can NPC corp members use Entosis Links on structures?
  • Does the Entosis Link cycle continue without target lock?
  • Do the nodes have a visible timer for everyone on grid?


and a few more:


  • Do the nodes allow anchoring deployables in their vicinity?
  • Will the nodes have a decloaking sphere around them?


The deadspace or not part is the most important now, along with the "tug of war" specifics. Thanks!
Tejoe Nightstar
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3962 - 2015-04-01 03:55:30 UTC
A couple of questions that I didn't see any clarification.


  • As Command Nodes are generated, will they be evenly spread through the constellation? Or will it be a weighted distribution with an extra 20% chance of being in the disputed system?

  • If more than one system/structure is generating Command Nodes in the constellation, will the Command Nodes be marked as to which system/structure they are part of the 10 count?

  • If the defenders eliminate all offensive entosis links, does the timer immediately reset? Or does it work like a control timer like in an FW plex?



A suggestion, since not all structures are equal, have larger structures have a longer base time or create more command nodes.
Dave Blaumeise
Dark-Rising
Wrecking Machine.
#3963 - 2015-04-02 01:07:50 UTC
The reason people play eve is violence.

No matter what you do, if you want something, you have to be violent. Be it the miner, that kills rats in his belt, be it a mission runner, be it a gatecamper, hotdropper, be it the alliance taking over sovereignity, you are violent.
When we are in fleets, we talk about DPS, we tweak our fittings to be get more dps for the isk. We link damage notfications just to show off.

Everyone starting EVE Online is becoming very quickly aware that there is a real big ship they might be able to fly one day, to eliminate some of the biggest ships with a single shot of a superweapon. WOW.

The NYX model, one of the most powerful ships in EVE, the model has become iconic for EVE. WOW! So much violence!

Now the future:

The big guns - EVERYONE LOVES BIG GUNS, right? - are being removed and replaced by a module called Entosis Link. Even the largest structures can be disabled or destroyed by a module that one can fit to almost every ship. No one needs the big guns anymore and they are being removed soon.

Gone is the violence, the sheer, brutal force of Dreadnaughts reinforcing a pos or Station or to kill a battleship fleet.

CCP, you are going into the wrong direction. EVE is not about magic wands, it is about violence!
Iroquoiss Pliskin
9B30FF Labs
#3964 - 2015-04-02 22:36:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Iroquoiss Pliskin
Dave Blaumeise wrote:
The reason people play eve is violence.

No matter what you do, if you want something, you have to be violent. Be it the miner, that kills rats in his belt, be it a mission runner, be it a gatecamper, hotdropper, be it the alliance taking over sovereignity, you are violent.
When we are in fleets, we talk about DPS, we tweak our fittings to be get more dps for the isk. We link damage notfications just to show off.

Everyone starting EVE Online is becoming very quickly aware that there is a real big ship they might be able to fly one day, to eliminate some of the biggest ships with a single shot of a superweapon. WOW.

The NYX model, one of the most powerful ships in EVE, the model has become iconic for EVE. WOW! So much violence!

Now the future:

The big guns - EVERYONE LOVES BIG GUNS, right? - are being removed and replaced by a module called Entosis Link. Even the largest structures can be disabled or destroyed by a module that one can fit to almost every ship. No one needs the big guns anymore and they are being removed soon.

Gone is the violence, the sheer, brutal force of Dreadnaughts reinforcing a pos or Station or to kill a battleship fleet.

CCP, you are going into the wrong direction. EVE is not about magic wands, it is about violence!


So much violence going on RIGHT now... The horror... They're they own renters! RENTERS! Stations are changing hands every 36 hours. The fight is to the LAST Titan, LAST! No one can afford to commit any more assets into this bloodbath... So much horror.

I have seen ATTACK ships on fire, off the shoulder of RFY-QB... Judgment day TRULY approcheath... Unseen VIOLENCE ERUPTIN-OHGOD!..

...radio comms silence...

*STATIC*

...........................................................................................

DEKLEIN HAS FALLEN.

END TRANSMISSION
Webster Carr
Carr Consolidated Corporation
#3965 - 2015-04-03 23:24:50 UTC
Dave Blaumeise wrote:
The reason people play eve is violence.

No matter what you do, if you want something, you have to be violent. Be it the miner, that kills rats in his belt, be it a mission runner, be it a gatecamper, hotdropper, be it the alliance taking over sovereignity, you are violent.
When we are in fleets, we talk about DPS, we tweak our fittings to be get more dps for the isk. We link damage notfications just to show off.

Everyone starting EVE Online is becoming very quickly aware that there is a real big ship they might be able to fly one day, to eliminate some of the biggest ships with a single shot of a superweapon. WOW.

The NYX model, one of the most powerful ships in EVE, the model has become iconic for EVE. WOW! So much violence!

Now the future:

The big guns - EVERYONE LOVES BIG GUNS, right? - are being removed and replaced by a module called Entosis Link. Even the largest structures can be disabled or destroyed by a module that one can fit to almost every ship. No one needs the big guns anymore and they are being removed soon.

Gone is the violence, the sheer, brutal force of Dreadnaughts reinforcing a pos or Station or to kill a battleship fleet.

CCP, you are going into the wrong direction. EVE is not about magic wands, it is about violence!


I have to agree.

The Entosis mechanic just seems contrived and artificial. There is no 'story' to it: I sat here and activated this 'thing' and nobody on the other side showed up so we just sort of won...

I know there are mechanical advantages to sovereignty, but when you come right down to it: Sovereignty is CONTROL.

You jump in like you own the place, rat, mine, whatever and nobody comes to kick you out, then well you own the place. They have a mechanic for Military and Industrial Indexes. Just allow normal activity by an opposing alliance to degrade existing indices then build their own and when it reaches a certain level, bam, Sovereignty changes.

It has a certain real life parallel: An Army would move in, siege the castle (blockade the gates), loot the fields (kill the rats, mine the roids), kill the peasants (scan down and destroy anyone doing normal system activity), etc... In other words they would gain CONTROL over the realm (system) even if the castle (station) was still in one piece.

Just my 2ISK

-Web
0bama Barack Hussein
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#3966 - 2015-04-06 14:06:45 UTC
My 20 cents: (before rant)

From playing in Null (Provi, CVA), high-sec (missions/trade) and FW since 2009 (+actually some mining too, though now I know it gets too boring for me quickly, but I were mining in Amarr with Bestower and one laser at very beginning without a clue, when a Bro from CVA came to recruit me, and ensured I kept playing after that terrible start).

If you (CCP) are gonna go this route you have planned, better make it so that high sec is also drawn into a (FW?) war (or optionally risk wardecs of other corps), between empires after 30 days rookie corp, because violence, ganking, griefing, cheating, betrayal, human driven politics+social interaction and mutual wars with hope of flying BIG ships eventually etc. are actually blood EvE lives on, compared to other games like (new) Elite (E:D).

That (ED) I have enjoyed as much as EvE, as both are masters in their own territory, and as both are keeping focus on their own "strong-areas" (mentioning this because I have actually recently spent more time with ED than EvE, that I found troublesome, because I want BOTH games, for different reasons) .

That high-sec war would force players to really consider their options after beginning at EvE, either be it joining high-sec corp (risking war decks) instead of FW, or forming their own single corp (risking war decks). All these scenarios would bring null more appealing for new players, and old like me. Adapt, get on a group (where newbies can actually learn something). Dont become voluntary target (alone). Punish+hunt (any+enemy FW) gankers killing (then now FW) miners in high sec severely through the Empire(s).

RANT:

Why cant I be allowed to get, as ordinary half-time warrior, decent living (and isk for PLEX) in null, as before (yeah changes during year(s) have been so frequent I´m still not clear how much it´s different year or 2 ago)?
You forced me to go into FW orbiting beacon-timers with warp stabbed (cheap FAST frigs, earlier even with a cloak) ships to carry on playing with PLEX (yeah, think I have payed enough in EURO´s during the years).

Now you WANT me to re-do that failure of a design, in null, but this time without LP? Really? I moved to FW (mostly) because it payed more, what I actually needed with much less risk. And it is **** boring! What is this change gonna benefit me now in null?

Not just that, you nerfed+changed some certain smaller ships I had fits and ready in null with recommended/doctrine fits, and now cant even fly them!
And when I were skilling for "BIG ships", carriers etc. already bought, aiming for some (easy) fun I had dreamed (for years), you hit them with these nerfs (next June, too)?

Really? It is like promising "Super Titan" for players in next few years, but then after all skilling cancelling them!

...

And then there is this 4 hour window... Aussies are not only ones to get hit by it.

Just think of me, unregular provi+CVA-casual warrior, from Eastern European TZ (from here at Finland, but just as for example Poland´s too), what would you guess CVA is gonna make their prime time? Western Europe and/or USA-prime time, pretty much forcing me to either be only in offence (with CVA?), or joining Russians, that we dont share any language, ideology or view of the world with, together (just joking here, but be glad we are not in war yet, again, lol).

Maybe make it 4 hours (I see reasoning behind it), but divided to 2x 2 hours periods (so both EU and USA players get on in it at their prime times as an example), and make those enthosis links work twice as fast (believe me, max. 20 minutes in FW is already enough in EVERY sense for orbiting something, even getting ganked while on it, and should be enough for defenders to react (if not, make them have immediate information they are under attack).

I see lots of good here, but THE BIG PICTURE need to be balanced so that this could work.
Just my opinion, dont hate 0bama for it!
Shaklu
Canadian Forces Corp
United 4 Nations
#3967 - 2015-04-06 18:33:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Shaklu
I see lots of ppl worrying about the prime time thing.. couldn't this be negated somewhat by using war decs? If you want to attack someone, but their prime time is 12 hours off of yours, declare war on them and it will make both attacker and defender vulnerable during both prime times set by the corps/alliances that are participants in the war.

Doing that would give the defenders a 24 hour warning because of war dec.. seems to make sense to me

Also this would be a larger problem for larger alliances, as they could have multiple active wars.. but for smaller ones it wouldn't matter as much

Make it vulnerable only if you are a member of that corp, and you can't join the corp during the war's duration unless you are the defending corp perhaps.. or something, I dunno how it would work, just an idea.
DooDoo Gum
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#3968 - 2015-04-07 04:48:53 UTC
That whack-a-mole game that was dumped on eve exploration... why stop there?

Seriously, its uses know no bounds. With a little work, im sure it can be implemented in the game of sov as well.
Tejoe Nightstar
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3969 - 2015-04-07 16:50:32 UTC
Shaklu wrote:
I see lots of ppl worrying about the prime time thing.. couldn't this be negated somewhat by using war decs? If you want to attack someone, but their prime time is 12 hours off of yours, declare war on them and it will make both attacker and defender vulnerable during both prime times set by the corps/alliances that are participants in the war.


Or, as an alternative, increase the prime time window by 1 hour (30 minutes added to each end) if you have any wardecs declared on you. (penalty applies only once) And have a 1 ½ hour if the corp has declared any wardecs on others. (again, the penalty applies only once) But only members in the affected corps/alliances can use the additional 2½ hours.

As a balance to this, structures captured within a wardec can be razed, looted, destroyed or unanchored. If a structure is captured absent a wardec, it cannot be destroyed or looted and cannot be unanchored for 60 days.
marly cortez
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#3970 - 2015-04-08 09:17:43 UTC
Just wish some of these Dev's would actually play EVE from a players perspective and witness the effects of the changes they have so far spewed into the game these past few months.

Truth is currently there is little incentive to play the game at all for players, the overall results of the travel Nerf has cut into players actual ability to complete fleets before having to log off on many occasions in hostile space the inevitable results of which when they do log back in again is loosing there ships and getting podded back, nice for the hostiles, not much incentive for the poor sod it happens to though, overall result is players get less content satisfaction, are less inclined to join fleets and are more inclined to simply give up playing EVE or at the very least leave Null Sec space.

Large areas of many Alliances Space are currently a deserted wasteland more utilized by neutrals than Alliance members who have little or no incentive to move from there current systems which have become heavily over populated and over farmed, results of that are there is less and less inclination to log in at all when you know that all the resources have been farmed out by players with more available game time than you have

The proposed Sov changes headline that they will provide additional content for players, but with no incentive to move why would they care to chase after silly little modules and timers when they can simply wait and then take back the lost systems at there leisure, The more likely outcome will be that they simply dock up and wait out the problem, then find they have less inclination to log in at all, result that leave the game or leave Null Sec

The effects of that silly blue timer icon have had far reaching and undesirable effects way beyond those required to simply Nerf power projection.

Humanity is the thin veneer that remains after you remove the baffled chimp.

Lugburz
Fiction.
BlackRose.
#3971 - 2015-04-11 19:21:18 UTC
listen, if you nullbears dont want to defend your space; if you want it to be 'safe', gtfo and go back to highsec where you really belong. it really is that simple.

have a nice day.
Udonor
Doomheim
#3972 - 2015-04-17 17:05:00 UTC
New sovereignty system for stations should include capture of player assets in hangars by new owners.

This will provide motivation for small alliances to try capturing stations which they will not be able to hold long once alliances large enough to apply pressure 24x7 go to work. Viking raid and pirate prize crews taking new fleet assets.

Stations are what allows sustained force projection into a system. Particularly for small alliances needing to recycle pilots quickly after they get killed. TCU are gonna just be Epeen flagpoles without any material effect except to allow skipping the intel process for determining who is most willing to fight in a given null system. Infrastructure hubs only matter if you do industry and that is directly proportionate to your confidence in holding a system.
Udonor
Doomheim
#3973 - 2015-04-17 17:10:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Udonor
marly cortez wrote:
Just wish some of these Dev's would actually play EVE from a players perspective and witness the effects of the changes they have so far spewed into the game these past few months.

Truth is currently there is little incentive to play the game at all for players, the overall results of the travel Nerf has cut into players actual ability to complete fleets before having to log off on many occasions in hostile space the inevitable results of which when they do log back in again is loosing there ships and getting podded back, nice for the hostiles, not much incentive for the poor sod it happens to though, overall result is players get less content satisfaction, are less inclined to join fleets and are more inclined to simply give up playing EVE or at the very least leave Null Sec space.

Large areas of many Alliances Space are currently a deserted wasteland more utilized by neutrals than Alliance members who have little or no incentive to move from there current systems which have become heavily over populated and over farmed, results of that are there is less and less inclination to log in at all when you know that all the resources have been farmed out by players with more available game time than you have

The proposed Sov changes headline that they will provide additional content for players, but with no incentive to move why would they care to chase after silly little modules and timers when they can simply wait and then take back the lost systems at there leisure, The more likely outcome will be that they simply dock up and wait out the problem, then find they have less inclination to log in at all, result that leave the game or leave Null Sec

The effects of that silly blue timer icon have had far reaching and undesirable effects way beyond those required to simply Nerf power projection.



You can still get skirmish sized fleets up without much notice. Its just the grand blob fleets that can no longer be whistled up quickly with little or no warning. They can still be done but they will require significant planning and time to gather up. Just like real world major naval fleets you probably want to marshall smaller task forces first then have them merge enroute. Oh multiple FCs might be needed. Gasp! the world changes. All of which means that blob fleet movement leaves the tactical world for the truly strategic world where intelligence and spies and counter-intelligence misdirection can wreck havoc so easily.

PS strategic means those blob fleets will take more than one playing day to gather and move to destination rather than just 30-180 minutes. Task Force A, B, C, D, and E might gather Thursday evening then move together on Friday at location Fox and move to actual attack at point Omega on Saturday. And there might even be need for after main battle movement plans of task forces to return home rather than splitting up and mostly having everyone fend for themselves.
WhyTry1
Hitmen.
Retribution.
#3974 - 2015-04-20 08:50:02 UTC
Disclaimer : I am not affiliated with any power bloc therefore this is not a biased post. Also this is my main and not an alt Smile However I have been playing eve for many years and have spent a silly amount of time in nullsec. Just thought i would get that in there before the alt, troll, grr goons, grrr n3, grrr whatever posts come....

Anyway, I have been thinking about the fozziesov thing for sometime, much like many others i guess. The recent changes with jump fatigue etc have been good, and i support that, it was needed. The lets hold lots of space, make billions renting lots of regions and not even living in it, just because you could throw 100 supers at someone in minutes was becoming a joke. I still don't think one alliance should be able to hold one full region to be honest and i would like to see the verite map changed to be sov only map not a influence map as it can wrongly give information about how much space one owns. But i digress...Sorry...

On to fozziesov, great idea as a concept, will make more fights local, will make people think a little more about the space they want to own and defend, especially for the larger alliances. Now i assumed (and maybe wrongly) that this was also to let the little guys get a chance to harass and even hold sov. Which would be great! However my concern is how really easy it is, meaning the time it takes to cause disruption.

We seem to have gone from one extreme to the other. Now again you may thing hey well that helps the little guys, but does it? My worry is the purposeful setting up of large newbie alliances to effectively cause havoc in nullsec just to create content. This isn't just about PL horde, although its convienient that a group that was so elitist all of a sudden decided to create a newb alliance, but also the likes of Brave and Goons. Which can effectively sum up 100,200,300+ gangs just to roam nullsec and disrupt lots of systems in a night, then go back again the next night and the next. The smaller alliances have literally no chance at all, they can compete with that may pilots 'constantly' roaming about, disrupting everything in 20 minutes. Surely fozzie must of thought of this and again just as the high sec poco debacle, they create a game that obviously favours Goons, and Brave and now PL Horde. I worry this will just have the complete opposite effect where no one dares live, or invest in nullsec because of the constant harassment. For example you think about increasing mining yield but who in the right mind is going to have mining sessions with 300+ people coming about constantly? I think this could actually end up destroying nullsec
I always wonder if CCP every look at the bigger picture rather than this inward thinking...
Dersen Lowery
The Scope
#3975 - 2015-04-20 14:56:34 UTC
0bama Barack Hussein wrote:
You forced me to go into FW orbiting beacon-timers with warp stabbed (cheap FAST frigs, earlier even with a cloak) ships to carry on playing with PLEX (yeah, think I have payed enough in EURO´s during the years).


The irony is that if the Entosis Link was adopted by Factional Warfare, it would go a long way toward solving this problem: while it's active, you can't cloak and you can't warp. While it's equipped, your agility is crap.

Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.

I voted in CSM X!

0bama Barack Hussein
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#3976 - 2015-04-21 09:40:11 UTC
Dersen Lowery wrote:
0bama Barack ******* wrote:
You forced me to go into FW orbiting beacon-timers with warp stabbed (cheap FAST frigs, earlier even with a cloak) ships to carry on playing with PLEX (yeah, think I have payed enough in EURO´s during the years).


The irony is that if the Entosis Link was adopted by Factional Warfare, it would go a long way toward solving this problem: while it's active, you can't cloak and you can't warp. While it's equipped, your agility is crap.


Well, but my point there were that it is just ridiculous to make null sec, but not high sec, new low sec FW arena (without LP)...

This system should be executed (maybe even shot) at high sec, between Factions.
xxVastorxx
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3977 - 2015-04-21 18:47:29 UTC
Id rather shoot thro millions of HP then have it easy,

I like my sov how it is,

Your new sov changes CCP is a joke. Fatigue is a Joke Players still remember what happend back in B-R they want another B-R fight, Eve got more subscribers after B-R

Why must you always ruin the nice things why **** away Null alliances hard work for an easier way, If getting sov was easy then what's the point of liveing in nullsec it should be a challenge fight thro horde's and horde's of hostiles to get something, not sit there, and be like click i got sov yay sov yay

Should be comon boys lets go get the sov grind grind grind op success that's a much better accomplishment then haveing a Handicap mod the etosis link.

The new changes to this and that, is like watching a 5 yearold in a candy store. who cant make his mind up on what choclate bar he wants.
Dersen Lowery
The Scope
#3978 - 2015-04-21 19:41:58 UTC
0bama Barack Hussein wrote:
Well, but my point there were that it is just ridiculous to make null sec, but not high sec, new low sec FW arena (without LP)...


Well, it is factional warfare. There are factions, and there's warfare. I've often thought it would be cool to allow sov holding alliances to award LP and set up LP stores.

High sec will probably change--"the empires are losing their grip on power"--but I don't see why it should change first. Null sec residents have been crying for a sov revamp for years, more so since the Incarna flare-up postponed CCP's first attempt at post-Dominion sov (in the release originally planned to follow Incarna, which was scrapped for Crucible).

Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.

I voted in CSM X!

lost packet
Alpha Flight
Sev3rance
#3979 - 2015-04-21 19:44:20 UTC
Been playing 8 years, even done a couple of fanfests and found some questionable tattoos when I awoke/sobered up - not sure i'll make it to 9 years.

EVE is becoming a shadow of its former self, figure I should go buy a console and play capture the flag.

S3ND3TH
Czerka.
What Could Possibly Go Wr0ng
#3980 - 2015-04-21 21:54:19 UTC
WhyTry1 wrote:
This isn't just about PL horde, although its convienient that a group that was so elitist all of a sudden decided to create a newb alliance, but also the likes of Brave and Goons. Which can effectively sum up 100,200,300+ gangs just to roam nullsec and disrupt lots of systems in a night, then go back again the next night and the next. The smaller alliances have literally no chance at all, they can compete with that may pilots 'constantly' roaming about, disrupting everything in 20 minutes.


if they are doing this to you every night then you know when their space is empty. do it back. and they will have more area to disrupt.