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Dev blog: Politics by Other Means: Sovereignty Phase Two

First post First post First post
Author
Artemis Ellery Sazas
Shock and Awe Inc.
#3321 - 2015-03-07 10:51:56 UTC
While I admire smaller corps/alliances desire to own your own sov, you are very wrong about what will happen.

There is one part of this that outsiders do not seem to understand, holding a successful sov system is a A LOT of work! If you don't increase your military and industry levels, then install the proper upgrades your system will be basically worthless. When you do raise your m & i levels and install the upgrades, you will become a target. Getting those upgrades into system is a logistical nightmare at the best of times. Then once your system is all upgraded you will be blobbed or ransomed. If you don't pay, your ihub will be popped and you will have to start all over again. If a corp or alliance does not intend to upgrade their system, then why take it in the first place?

This system is seriously flawed in so many ways. I predict after a period of 3-6 months null sec will be emptier and worse off than ever. Sov will be too easy to take to make upgrading worthwhile , especially from the smaller guys, 500 members or less and most systems will be left empty. I bet behind closed doors it is already being planned to grief sov newbies back to where they came from.

You can make bold plans to hold sov, but in the end most do not understand the true power of the big coalitions.



Edit

Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#3322 - 2015-03-07 11:06:44 UTC
The new system is great, now nerf or remove jump freighters from the game and ******* nerf bombers so people can use BC and BS.

The Tears Must Flow

Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
#3323 - 2015-03-07 11:11:39 UTC
Artemis Ellery Sazas wrote:
While I admire smaller corps/alliances desire to own your own sov, you are very wrong about what will happen.

There is one part of this that outsiders do not seem to understand, holding a successful sov system is a A LOT of work! If you don't increase your military and industry levels, then install the proper upgrades your system will be basically worthless. When you do raise your m & i levels and install the upgrades, you will become a target. Getting those upgrades into system is a logistical nightmare at the best of times. Then once your system is all upgraded you will be blobbed or ransomed. If you don't pay, your ihub will be popped and you will have to start all over again. If a corp or alliance does not intend to upgrade their system, then why take it in the first place?

This system is seriously flawed in so many ways. I predict after a period of 3-6 months null sec will be emptier and worse off than ever. Sov will be too easy to take to make upgrading worthwhile , especially from the smaller guys, 500 members or less and most systems will be left empty. I bet behind closed doors it is already being planned to grief sov newbies back to where they came from.

You can make bold plans to hold sov, but in the end most do not understand the true power of the big coalitions.

Edit



Here is an example of someone assuming that the people in small corps or alliances who welcome this have not been in 0.0.

I know all about IHUB's and IHUB upgrades, level 5 ones require a freighter, doh!!!

I have understood frm the start that the IHUB was the key point of weakness in terms of ISK, doh!

You fail to understand that our group can also grief back, we can now setup all over the place, we just need a few bodies to get the system and take it back if lost, we need a TCU and a large death star POS, that is nothing in terms of ISK to many of us, this is going to be so much fun and yet you think being rolled over by 1,000 Goons is going to bother me, hell no, I will grab that system back again just for the fun of it, so who is griefing who?

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

flakeys
Doomheim
#3324 - 2015-03-07 11:18:56 UTC
Artemis Ellery Sazas wrote:
While I admire smaller corps/alliances desire to own your own sov, you are very wrong about what will happen.

There is one part of this that outsiders do not seem to understand, holding a successful sov system is a A LOT of work! If you don't increase your military and industry levels, then install the proper upgrades your system will be basically worthless. When you do raise your m & i levels and install the upgrades, you will become a target. Getting those upgrades into system is a logistical nightmare at the best of times. Then once your system is all upgraded you will be blobbed or ransomed. If you don't pay, your ihub will be popped and you will have to start all over again. If a corp or alliance does not intend to upgrade their system, then why take it in the first place?

This system is seriously flawed in so many ways. I predict after a period of 3-6 months null sec will be emptier and worse off than ever. Sov will be too easy to take to make upgrading worthwhile , especially from the smaller guys, 500 members or less and most systems will be left empty. I bet behind closed doors it is already being planned to grief sov newbies back to where they came from.

You can make bold plans to hold sov, but in the end most do not understand the true power of the big coalitions.



Edit



Every system CCP comes up with to promote 'the lill guy going to null sov' is seriously flawed from the start.Because we start out with a flawed base where you can have big coalitions to start with.Unless that is tackled i don't ever see it becoming a place for the 'small guy'.

In other words , it won't happen.

We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.

Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#3325 - 2015-03-07 11:22:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Sgt Ocker
Artemis Ellery Sazas wrote:
While I admire smaller corps/alliances desire to own your own sov, you are very wrong about what will happen.

There is one part of this that outsiders do not seem to understand, holding a successful sov system is a A LOT of work! If you don't increase your military and industry levels, then install the proper upgrades your system will be basically worthless. When you do raise your m & i levels and install the upgrades, you will become a target. Getting those upgrades into system is a logistical nightmare at the best of times. Then once your system is all upgraded you will be blobbed or ransomed. If you don't pay, your ihub will be popped and you will have to start all over again. If a corp or alliance does not intend to upgrade their system, then why take it in the first place?

This system is seriously flawed in so many ways. I predict after a period of 3-6 months null sec will be emptier and worse off than ever. Sov will be too easy to take to make upgrading worthwhile , especially from the smaller guys, 500 members or less and most systems will be left empty. I bet behind closed doors it is already being planned to grief sov newbies back to where they came from.

You can make bold plans to hold sov, but in the end most do not understand the true power of the big coalitions.



Edit


Your right, sadly.
Regardless of CCP grand plans and ideas, no unaligned small alliance is going to take and hold any sov worth having.
Many will try and this is the basket CCP is throwing all the eggs in. When a small unaligned alliance takes sov, it will create content (for a few days here and there) for the bloks. There will be lots of kills over relatively short periods and CCP will produce metrics to show how successful the sov changes are.
Next comes a round of nerfs "re-balancing" to draw player attention away from the mess (mini game) called sov.

My only real question here is; How long will it take CCP to realize and acknowledge the mistakes.


NB; 3 of my old friends plan on resubbing for a month when these changes hit - This looks like the best troll mechanic CCP has ever introduced (talking about Entosis) and we want in on it.


- - - - - - - - - - -
Sleep 8 hours - work 8 hours - Eve 4 hours - that leaves you with 4 hours a day to have a life; be a parent, eat meals, go shopping and get anything else you need to do done.
Eve is meant to be a game. A game is meant to be fun. Fun is meant to be leisure time. None of these is meant to be a four hour a day, seven day a week commitment.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.

flakeys
Doomheim
#3326 - 2015-03-07 11:36:50 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Artemis Ellery Sazas wrote:
While I admire smaller corps/alliances desire to own your own sov, you are very wrong about what will happen.

There is one part of this that outsiders do not seem to understand, holding a successful sov system is a A LOT of work! If you don't increase your military and industry levels, then install the proper upgrades your system will be basically worthless. When you do raise your m & i levels and install the upgrades, you will become a target. Getting those upgrades into system is a logistical nightmare at the best of times. Then once your system is all upgraded you will be blobbed or ransomed. If you don't pay, your ihub will be popped and you will have to start all over again. If a corp or alliance does not intend to upgrade their system, then why take it in the first place?

This system is seriously flawed in so many ways. I predict after a period of 3-6 months null sec will be emptier and worse off than ever. Sov will be too easy to take to make upgrading worthwhile , especially from the smaller guys, 500 members or less and most systems will be left empty. I bet behind closed doors it is already being planned to grief sov newbies back to where they came from.

You can make bold plans to hold sov, but in the end most do not understand the true power of the big coalitions.



Edit


Your right, sadly.
Regardless of CCP grand plans and ideas, no unaligned small alliance is going to take and hold any sov worth having.
Many will try and this is the basket CCP is throwing all the eggs in. When a small unaligned alliance takes sov, it will create content (for a few days here and there) for the bloks. There will be lots of kills over relatively short periods and CCP will produce metrics to show how successful the sov changes are.
Next comes a round of nerfs "re-balancing" to draw player attention away from the mess (mini game) called sov.

My only real question here is; How long will it take CCP to realize and acknowledge the mistakes.


NB; 3 of my old friends plan on resubbing for a month when these changes hit - This looks like the best troll mechanic CCP has ever introduced (talking about Entosis) and we want in on it.


- - - - - - - - - - -
Sleep 8 hours - work 8 hours - Eve 4 hours - that leaves you with 4 hours a day to have a life; be a parent, eat meals, go shopping and get anything else you need to do done.
Eve is meant to be a game. A game is meant to be fun. Fun is meant to be leisure time. None of these is meant to be a four hour a day, seven day a week commitment.



Only option i see to make the game really interesting again in null-sec roughly outlined , and ow boy is this gonna be flamed to hell and back , is to reduce the numbergame.

Reduce the amount able to have in a corp or Alliance BIG time.
Maximum amount of blue standings 2.
No neutral or red standings.
Give the people with titans/motherships a reimbursement of their current value in isk back and the SP they stuck into it.Carriers and dreads revamped to a new role.

As i said above , a reall change it never gonna happen as a change along the lines of what i say here will never happen.Might as well just create a RvB null-sec landscape because if we go on as we did over the last 6 years then this is what is going to become the end result anyway.The players all want change , yet none in null-sec want to give in on the numbersgame , so really what point is there even trying for CCP.

We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.

Gabriel Karade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#3327 - 2015-03-07 11:37:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Gabriel Karade
I want to first cavet this by stating I do not know what the solution is, but I do feel the 'exam question' isn't being answered.

Firstly the context of 'Sovereignty' in Eve online:

"Sov v0.8" - Alliances existing as informal groupings, no stations, no Starbases

Arrow Players banded together to take advantage of the mineral wealth e.g the Curse and Stain alliances of old (Emergent play)
Arrow No structures of any sort, made making a 'home' truly difficult' (Issue)

"Sov v0.9" - Conquerable stations appear, can be taken over by anyone

Arrow Players started to move goods/ships out to these stations, creating communities (Emergent play)
Arrow 'Station ping pong'; small groups could flip the stations relatively easily, I remember doing this extensively myself in Period Basis in '04 (Issue)

"Sov v1.0" - Starbases are released, the new 'formalised' alliances appear

Arrow Simple system to build yourself a 'home', defence-in-depth by having a number of heavily armed Starbases, but also building up links between Starbases of different corporations to create reactions and industry e.g. ISS.... (Emergent play)
Arrow 'Post-DT small Starbase spam'; because any Starbase could counted towards Sovereignty, players would spam rush small towers in T1 haulers after DT to flip a system (Issue)

"Sov v1.1" - 'Upgradable 'Sov' and constellation 'Sov'

ArrowBrought in extra 'infrastructure' that could be added to space, but in a pretty constrained way (Content/Issue)
ArrowMore complexity, but also led to 'uber' cyno-jammed systems with multiple Titans DD'ing the grid (Issue)

"Sov v2.0" - Dominion-era Sov system

ArrowGot rid of the POS spam/grind, added ways to 'upgrade' your space to make a better home (Benefits)
Arrow More complexity/lack of immersion with timers e.t.c, massive amounts of hitpoints to grind through (defensive SBU's, stations e.t.c) driving everyone to using large numbers of Supers and pushing the 'little guys' out (Issue)

"Sov v3.0" - ??

Arrow ...
Arrow ...

I've left these blank because I hope this is still a long way from being set in stone, but I can see already the same issues appearing; spamming, lack of immersive gameplay, and ugly TZ mechanics.

In my personal opinion, the simpler systems, for all their flaws, were more desirable (e.g. in "Sov 1.0' having small towers count towards sovereignty was clearly a major flaw, but otherwise you had to seriously 'invest' in an area of space to hold it...), the 'upgrades' to Sov in 2007 adding complexity (Sov levels/Constellation Sov e.t.c) just made things worse.... which brings me onto a question:

Quote:
Why, despite all the difficulties, did 'Alliances' (not the game mechanics ones) form? Why did players persist in moving out to 0.0 to eek out an existence in "their own space" with limited tools available?


This is quite a broad question, but one I'm not certain has been asked properly, let alone answered. It is fundamental, as any 'Sov' system is pointless unless it is fully understood.


FInal thoughts

Again purely my opinion; I believe 'Sovereignty' in Eve is too quick to achieve, a leaf could/should be taken out of the 'RL' book, by revisiting what sovereignty means - but to distill it down, it should probably be the same:

Quote:
you can control your 'borders' and movement across your borders, but also must be recognised by others for it to have any meaning....

(e.g that's "Alliance X's" space because we'll get our heads kicked in by hundreds of dreads/supers if we drop in System X,Y,Z...)

... the highlighted point takes an awful long time (decades/centuries in reality) to achieve. What should it be in Eve? days? weeks? months? a year?

As I said at the start, not certain what the solution is, but the proposal on the table doesn't 'feel' to be 'it' Straight

War Machine: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=386293

Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
#3328 - 2015-03-07 11:47:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Dracvlad
Sgt Ocker wrote:

Your right, sadly.
Regardless of CCP grand plans and ideas, no unaligned small alliance is going to take and hold any sov worth having.
Many will try and this is the basket CCP is throwing all the eggs in. When a small unaligned alliance takes sov, it will create content (for a few days here and there) for the bloks. There will be lots of kills over relatively short periods and CCP will produce metrics to show how successful the sov changes are.
Next comes a round of nerfs "re-balancing" to draw player attention away from the mess (mini game) called sov.

My only real question here is; How long will it take CCP to realize and acknowledge the mistakes.


NB; 3 of my old friends plan on resubbing for a month when these changes hit - This looks like the best troll mechanic CCP has ever introduced (talking about Entosis) and we want in on it.


- - - - - - - - - - -
Sleep 8 hours - work 8 hours - Eve 4 hours - that leaves you with 4 hours a day to have a life; be a parent, eat meals, go shopping and get anything else you need to do done.
Eve is meant to be a game. A game is meant to be fun. Fun is meant to be leisure time. None of these is meant to be a four hour a day, seven day a week commitment.


Small alliances are not going to go for sov worth having, at least initially, to do so is ignoring reality and those that try will fail.

Taking poor sov systems however is fun and not expensive now and doable. So what if people come in and roll it over, the whole idea is to be able to compete and this allows people do so, even if it means that their efforts are in the end nothing more than grinding away and getting swatted, before this system you could not even do that.

The fun part which all you doomsayers ignore is the fun of just putting a TCU down and seeing what you can get, up the stakes a bit and add a deathstar, what else can we get to jump in, this will be fun, for example how many people can you get jump fatigued so they cannot get to a serious battle, seriously so many strategic options.

I even see big blocks supporting small guys next to their enemies space, I am sure taht will happen, honorable third party and all that...

And the people who could just go off and cause mayhem with no need to defend their own stuff are now going to be in the boat with the rest of us, of course they will defend against it better than the small guys, but who expects otherwise, only idiots.

EDIT: If people have not seen one theme on my posts about Sov, its to do it because I want to do it and I think I can have fun doing it, but my motive has nothing to do with ISK generation because I know it is not going to be worth it. CCP has to look at the value of low true sec systems. Yes I can make ISK out of them if I try but so much is loaded against you, I would for example run around in a PvP ship blapping belt rats just because I can, small ISK generation but why not while waiting to blap aGoon interceptor with a 20m or 80m module, but my past experience in this game is that people will just do everything they can to stop you operating there, so for me its plant your flag, have fun around the PVP generated from that.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

xttz
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#3329 - 2015-03-07 11:53:49 UTC
For those still concerned about the rigid use of 4-hour alliance prime times, please check out some proposed tweaks found here. I believe it would be in everyone's best interest if system vulnerability were linked to how often it were used, making it much easier to contest those that never see a soul.

Of course this is also another reason to fix the current Industrial Index. Something is clearly wrong when the EVE map looks like this:
http://i.imgur.com/n84nWAH.png

Mining needs to make more of an impact on that index, and ideally there should be more metrics that factor in too. Commonly touted ideas include:

  • Production jobs
  • Moon mining or reacting starbases
  • POCO usage
  • Research
tiberiusric
Comply Or Die
Pandemic Horde
#3330 - 2015-03-07 12:01:13 UTC  |  Edited by: tiberiusric
I think SOV needs a complete overall rather than trying to hack and use whats there, thats my persona opinion, because it just feels rushed and far far too complicated.

The base question should be - Why would you want sov? What benefits does holding sov give me over living in nullsec npc instead?

At the moment the benefits are not much different. Infact many sov holding alliances dont even live in their homes, they live in NPC, why becuase they can farm the missions for high grade implants and the anoms etc. NPC region can actually be more profitable.

Most people want SOV not for the resources but for status, to get your name on the SOV map, to show people you matter, nothing more. Because you just dont see, especially the big alliances having mass mining ops etc. If they build anything its for a moon mining pos, or more poses for jump bridging, or another pos with a cyno jammer.

I see NOTHING of any alliance actually using any of the resources of the systems. The ones that they may do is the high sec ones that have index 5 for the anoms, which to be honest is a huge grindfest, i think i would rather farm belts with much higher bounties.

So CCP needs to make holding SOV worthwhile, but also make people be active rather than live in NPC or do nothing. Isnt nullsec space with a large alliances supposed to be a living breathing active world? Doesnt seem like that, now does it.

Some things we need to think about is, as mentioned why would any one want SOV, it needs to be profitable wthout having to constantly grinding but you have to work to get something.


Some recommendations to want SOV. I remember when i started 10 years ago, nullsec was the place to be the place you aimed for, the riches that you wanted. Now its just been nerfed to hell, being it back. I believe moon mining has caused some major issues. Make nullsec worth going to. Worth living in

ArrowRemove moon mining, and go to belt mining for these resources. Just like every other mineral.
ArrowReverse the index/sec status link, if you have invested in a ihub and all the upgrades then let everyone go back to having the same benefits.
ArrowAllow multiple stations to be built, every normal system can have more than one, so why not.
ArrowMake ABC ores profitable again.
ArrowBring back more high end DED sites, they used to be fun to do in groups. But instead of having them in certain systems make them random.
ArrowSeems to me you have also nerfed faction/officer spawns to non existence. Why?

If you dont then we might as well just all move to NPC nullsec and change every sov region to npc.


AttentionStop trying to nerf isk making into the ground, because the more money people have the more they invest, buy more ships, more modules etc which makes better for the economy and allows people to really build an active exciting universe. Feels like we have been in austerity for years now and there is no reason for it to be. If you live in nullsec and 'prepared to do some work' then why shouldnt you get the riches? Attention

I moved out of nullsec sov, because there is simply no reason to be there any more.

People being allowed to rent and the mooning mining has made large alliances lazy and far far too easy to make isk, that needs to stop. I do like the thoughts about making taking sov easier and quicker, but you have to have a balance that people arent just going around being annoying and griefing just for the fun of it.

All my views are my own - never be afraid to post with your main, unless you're going to post some dumb shit

Gabriel Karade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#3331 - 2015-03-07 12:01:57 UTC
I hate to say this but, I suspect implementing a viable Sovereignty system isn't really going to be possible until Starbases are completely re-worked from the ground up.

(They were 'supposed' to be the small 'islands'/'colonies' that would make 0.0 living worthwhile)

War Machine: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=386293

afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#3332 - 2015-03-07 12:28:33 UTC
I see every effort is still being made to stop changes that punish those who don't live in space they 'own'

Good job.

The people with something to fear here are those who do not live locally. No one else. Size is not a factor in terms of letting 'little' guys in. They could be crushed today and can be crushed tomorrow. The difference is that if you're not living in and using your own space then it's easy to take - and rightly so.

Use it or lose it is the message here.
tiberiusric
Comply Or Die
Pandemic Horde
#3333 - 2015-03-07 12:36:51 UTC
afkalt wrote:
I see every effort is still being made to stop changes that punish those who don't live in space they 'own'

Good job.

The people with something to fear here are those who do not live locally. No one else. Size is not a factor in terms of letting 'little' guys in. They could be crushed today and can be crushed tomorrow. The difference is that if you're not living in and using your own space then it's easy to take - and rightly so.

Use it or lose it is the message here.


So what about alliances that are renting regions and regions, where every system is being rented, but effectively the alliance is still holding sov, albeit it in the sister rental alliance.

All my views are my own - never be afraid to post with your main, unless you're going to post some dumb shit

Saffear Stormrage
Tr0pa de elite.
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#3334 - 2015-03-07 12:38:17 UTC
looking at the wide variety of comments, suggestions and good ideas, I feel more than ever that a lot more discussion is required.
Still I am not behind the 4 hour window of vulnerability - I am not for any size window.
One of the biggest strengths in EVE online is the diversity of players. onces you box in the time frame you make a bunch of little sandboxes, while some can adapt, for the most it will cause further granulation of the sandboxes until you have neat little packaged entities that have little or No interaction with each other.
If that is what you wish - go for it, I for one will not be apart of it, I am certain there are others besides myself that love the wide open sandbox - mostly unrestricted by Time or location.
Please find a solution for this before you make changes, -
Other notes - I love small gang as much as the next pilot however having Sov solely based on small gang warfare will result in the same boring stalemate Faction warfare is in.
TCU's being a name on a map only - so then why?
Just sayin
Saf-
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#3335 - 2015-03-07 12:58:23 UTC
afkalt wrote:

Use it or lose it is the message here.


And the problem with that is that most of it's not worth living in. As in, so bad you might as well be grinding missions in Egglenaert instead.

Instead of being given to the ubiquitous little guy, that sov is going to be used as a DMZ between the areas actually worth having.

If you want to force people to live in their space to defend it, fine.

Just make it worth living in in the first place. Or is that too much to ask?

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Dark Spite
Ascendance
Goonswarm Federation
#3336 - 2015-03-07 13:05:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Dark Spite
Dracvlad wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:

Your right, sadly.
Regardless of CCP grand plans and ideas, no unaligned small alliance is going to take and hold any sov worth having.
Many will try and this is the basket CCP is throwing all the eggs in. When a small unaligned alliance takes sov, it will create content (for a few days here and there) for the bloks. There will be lots of kills over relatively short periods and CCP will produce metrics to show how successful the sov changes are.
Next comes a round of nerfs "re-balancing" to draw player attention away from the mess (mini game) called sov.

My only real question here is; How long will it take CCP to realize and acknowledge the mistakes.


NB; 3 of my old friends plan on resubbing for a month when these changes hit - This looks like the best troll mechanic CCP has ever introduced (talking about Entosis) and we want in on it.


Small alliances are not going to go for sov worth having, at least initially, to do so is ignoring reality and those that try will fail.

Taking poor sov systems however is fun and not expensive now and doable. So what if people come in and roll it over, the whole idea is to be able to compete and this allows people do so, even if it means that their efforts are in the end nothing more than grinding away and getting swatted, before this system you could not even do that.
.....

EDIT: If people have not seen one theme on my posts about Sov, its to do it because I want to do it and I think I can have fun doing it, but my motive has nothing to do with ISK generation because I know it is not going to be worth it. CCP has to look at the value of low true sec systems. Yes I can make ISK out of them if I try but so much is loaded against you, I would for example run around in a PvP ship blapping belt rats just because I can, small ISK generation but why not while waiting to blap aGoon interceptor with a 20m or 80m module, but my past experience in this game is that people will just do everything they can to stop you operating there, so for me its plant your flag, have fun around the PVP generated from that.


This is exactly why the new sov system makes me want to invest time in taking SOV. Not because I think it will the glorious start of a new space empire, but because it will be fun to do so. When I was in alliance leadership of sov holding alliances it was a lot of work but also a lot of fun.

I don't care about shi**y metrics like isk/hour, if I did then I would probably run Sisters of Eve L4's out of Osmon like half the russians in EVE do(Russians seem to find the sweet spots so much better than EU/US players). Even -1.0 systems dont generate as good a ratio iskwise as those missions do. A lot of times you can get over 4000/lp ratio. But I hate running missions almost as much as I hate running anomalies.

Sov is fun because it poses some challenges to me and the players I fly with that which are not there when living in HS, LS or NPC Null. Also its a great way to have younger players get their legs kneedeep in pvp since pvp always comes to you. Not only in the form of sov attacks, but often also in the form of roaming gangs. I am guessing that roaming gangs will routinely have an entosis module on a ship to provoke a fight, but if they get the fight most of them wont use it. Maybe goons are different in this, and so be it.

The goon campaign in this thread is interesting to follow on many levels. First of they dont like the change and want to show a way for it to be used in griefing in order to change the mechanics before they are implemented on TQ. Secondly they tell everyone that they will do whatever it takes to ruin the game for those who dare to nibble at their vast areas of empty space. Third is that their players enjoy this and will have fun making others miserable. Its their isk/RL money which goes to pay for subscription and they have their right to play the game however they want.

Sov like this will enable me to have more nullsec fun without the f**cking structure shooting which POS Sov and Dominion SOV entailed.

Edit: I dont dislike goons or cfc, especially goons have impressed me a lot over the years. I dislike mechanics which preclude anything but 2-4 massive coalitions which leads to a decaying and risk-averse nullsec.
Torgeir Hekard
I MYSELF AND ME
#3337 - 2015-03-07 13:27:43 UTC
I find the complaints about the 4h prime time window quite strange.

Since essentially we have it even now for sov structures, only the window is 6h wide, not 4, and can be set per structure, not per alliance, which makes defending vast unoccupied areas easier (what this update is aimed to get rid of).

But that is a technicality, since alliance is, well, a social construct. What's behind an alliance is a community, and an alliance is just a way to formalize the relationship. Not, strictly speaking, necessary. There are functioning examples of organized communities within EVE online not reliant on the organization opportunities provided by game mechanics (sans ingame chat channels and mailing lists). So splitting an alliance for shifting timer purposes does not take away from the community. Perhaps unfortunately, since big communities that try to alleviate internal conflicts (for some reason shooting blues is a crime, not a virtue) are pretty much the root of evil.
Duffyman
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#3338 - 2015-03-07 13:32:17 UTC
I have a question. Dev blog says build price of Sov lasers are 20 and 80m respectively. This leads me to assume that the Drifters will drop blueprints. So the real cost of the mods will be way higher than their build cost right? Does this influence the real worth of the mods or do you guys think that this bears little influence? Because Drifters are hard to kil...
Silent Twilight
Red October.
#3339 - 2015-03-07 13:48:54 UTC
To avoid swarming trollceptor attacks on SOV, but still give an option of a small agile capturing ship, perhaps there should be specialized cruiser and/or smaller hulls for Entosis Link, which would otherwise fit only only on larger classes. If this ship isn't good for 1 vs 1 combat, it would require some armed escort in inhabited and gatecamped hostile territory. And dedicated hull would also be a clear sign of a threat for SOV, preventing every single neut or red in a ceptor or Cynabal being perceived as a possible Entosis carrier.
Mellianah
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#3340 - 2015-03-07 13:52:03 UTC
Duffyman wrote:
I have a question. Dev blog says build price of Sov lasers are 20 and 80m respectively. This leads me to assume that the Drifters will drop blueprints. So the real cost of the mods will be way higher than their build cost right? Does this influence the real worth of the mods or do you guys think that this bears little influence? Because Drifters are hard to kil...

I've been asking people the same question... *tumbleweeds*
Also, will it be a straight build, or invention/chance based? How numerous exactly are Drifters anyway?
Queue supply/demand...