These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE Information Portal

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Dev blog: Politics by Other Means: Sovereignty Phase Two

First post First post First post
Author
M1k3y Koontz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#3261 - 2015-03-06 23:36:38 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
M1k3y Koontz wrote:

If CCP pre-nerfed everything that people were able to theorycraft into a disaster, nothing in EVE would ever be useable.


They already do that for Caldari.

Yea, that's why everyone is flying Tengus.

Caldari are fine, missiles are hit or miss in terms of usefulness.

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#3262 - 2015-03-06 23:36:46 UTC
M1k3y Koontz wrote:

Fights will still escalate in the new system, even without mountains of EHP to grind though.


I suspect so, I merely wonder now that the paradigm is shifting to **** jousting in small disposable ships (like FW), whether or not people will commit expensive, vulnerable assets if they can get the job done without it.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#3263 - 2015-03-06 23:37:42 UTC
M1k3y Koontz wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
M1k3y Koontz wrote:

If CCP pre-nerfed everything that people were able to theorycraft into a disaster, nothing in EVE would ever be useable.


They already do that for Caldari.

Yea, that's why everyone is flying Tengus.

Caldari are fine, missiles are hit or miss in terms of usefulness.


One Caldari ship is fine, anyway. Well, that and the Falcon, but we all know why that is.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Silvetica Dian
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#3264 - 2015-03-06 23:47:20 UTC
There are two metrics by which null sec measure success.
Strategic objective and isk war.
Might i suggest we use the isk war to have an impact on the timers?
If the attacker over the preceeding days/ maybe even weeks is winning then the timer would start to shift towards their prime time and even if they overwhelming lock down the area and defeat the resisdents over and over completely switch to their prime for that system.
This would spread the battle for control over even more time and allow invasion across time zones which under the suggested system looks tricky. It would also add depth via feints where you reinforce one system but then only contest the reinforce in different parts of the constellation in order to move the tz for those systems when you win a local victory and then reinforce those?

Money at its root is a form of rationing. When the richest 85 people have as much wealth as the poorest 3.5 billion (50% of humanity) it is clear where the source of poverty is. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/20/trickle-down-economics-broken-promise-richest-85

Jack Miton
Perkone
Caldari State
#3265 - 2015-03-06 23:47:56 UTC
I love this change so much that I can't ever fully express it :)
Finally a way to actually make NS randoms interact with you.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout

Ramman K'arojic
Lone Star Warriors
Evictus.
#3266 - 2015-03-06 23:53:25 UTC
Martin Vanzyl wrote:
Entosis Link ranges are stupidly large.

Scale the Entosis Link range. The smaller ship you fit it to, the less range it has.
Frig = 5 - 15km
Cruiser = 15 - 30km
BC = 30 - 40km
BS = 50 - 60
Cap = 60 < ....

Etc. Not only will this make a 'logical sense', small comm array on smaller ship means it needs to be closer to link with the appropriate strength to the station's systems etc, it also forces the attackers in closer, where they can be engaged by defenders. Another solution could be to limit the Entosis to BS, cap and super hulls.



I suggest CPP ditch the T2 version - and make Entosis Link come in different sizes and each size has a different range, and activation time.

Say even BS -200km and Cap 300km

Giving more a dynamic play option.

Anyway just 2 isk
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#3267 - 2015-03-07 00:10:44 UTC
250 km is the hard limit for ship lock ranges, might even be 245, I don't remember. Caps included. 250 km is just a figure that means 'within all possible lock range.'
Drigo Segvian
Black Fox Marauders
Pen Is Out
#3268 - 2015-03-07 00:13:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Drigo Segvian
@ CCP- +1 on the changes. Love it

When I was brand new to EVE I had the following impression:

Hi Sec- Safe, a place where you could skill up until you were ready to go do what you really wanted to
Low Sec- Dangerous, money to be made- people will blow you up
WH Space- Did not know it existed Shocked
Null- Where you go to PVP

Now that I have been around for a bit longer...

Hi Sec- Safe but you will get war decd and ganked Blink
Low sec- Where you go to PVP
WH Space- Dangerous, money to be made- people will blow you up
NULL- Vast empty carebear land......
NPC Null- not sure yet Roll

Null needs a change.

And pease do not buff income....from this thread i hear null folks who cant be asked to defend their turf or want to consolidate to a smaller region but make the same isk. Just no

Thanks.

Note: I dont post often but this is a fascinating topic. {gets popcorn out of microwave}
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#3269 - 2015-03-07 00:18:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Rain6637
How likely are vulnerability windows tied to server reinforcement, and in part, an effort to mitigate TiDi.

If that's a significant factor in making everyone commit to a time window, arguments against are rather futile.
Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#3270 - 2015-03-07 00:26:57 UTC
M1k3y Koontz wrote:
Fountain had an endgame, a light at the end of the tunnel. That will no longer be the case, you'll have to constantly beat down people who contest your ownership of the whole of nullsec, assuming you actually manage to capture as much space as your alliance seems to think it can.


Who's planning to capture anything? Seriously, we're a bunch of retardly masochistic idiots who'll beat our heads against a wall for months on the promise of 'eventually, it'll feel good when we stop!' and 'this hurts everyone else more'. We're not going to do this to take space. We're going to do this to screw other people.

We probably won't even give much of a damn if it leaves all of Null a smoking crater. Before this actually goes live, all of our personal assets will be in safe lowsec or NPC null stations just like S2N's pastebin shows them planning. Our moon operations will still take just as much effort for people to hurt - and we'll still be able to respond w/fleets just like we do now - all with the added benefit of doing all our ratting in other peoples' space while we take it away from them just to watch it burn.

Really, what's the downside to this for us? We don't have sov bills?

This isn't going to do what CCP wants. It's not going to drive fights, it's going to produce a whole lot of griefing. And it's not going to stop until we get tired of it - and if you think we'll get tired of it any time soon, MiniLuv's been active how many years? Goons have been scamming people for how many years?

As the scorpion said to the frog: it's our nature.

Don't let us do this.
Eli Apol
Definitely a nullsec alt
#3271 - 2015-03-07 00:41:24 UTC
Arrendis wrote:
Don't let us do this.

If it really gets that bad, just obscene fitting reqs on the T2 version = trollceptors now have to orbit within web scram range and can't warp off for 5 minute cycles = lots and lots more dead interceptors

but what would I know, I'm just a salvager

Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#3272 - 2015-03-07 00:44:05 UTC
Eli Apol wrote:
Arrendis wrote:
Don't let us do this.

If it really gets that bad, just obscene fitting reqs on the T2 version = trollceptors now have to orbit within web scram range and can't warp off for 5 minute cycles = lots and lots more dead interceptors


Trolling people with this won't require interceptors. T3s are enough - and we'll use them.
Eli Apol
Definitely a nullsec alt
#3273 - 2015-03-07 00:50:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Eli Apol
Arrendis wrote:
Trolling people with this won't require interceptors. T3s are enough - and we'll use them.

Well at least the broken record piping out of the propoganda machine has skipped onto a new track.

So we're now onto trolled up T3s....let me guess...you'll threaten to do this with absolutely anything that can't be bubbled to try and change the mechanic which makes all your desolate backyards vulnerable before we get a chance to see it?

Not transparent at all.

edit:

Fozzie wrote:
If anything gets out of control it's very easy for us to adjust it and we want to make sure that we're adjusting that to make good gameplay. The core goal is that to win an object with the Entosis link, the victory should go, as much as possible, to whoever has reasonable dominance of that location, whoever has military control, in real terms over the area around that spot and if the gameplay devolves into people orbitting at 250km then that would break that goal and we would make sure that doesn't happen.

There's a lot of things we can do with that; we can do anything from giving penalties or bonuses to any type of ship, we can give anything like a speed limit on the module itself, (so that) you can't go over a certain speed whilst it's running, we could put fitting requirements on, cap requirements on, mass increases. We have all of those options and the goal is to use as light of a touch as possible but to use as strong of a touch as we need, to go with the minimum amount of interference on what people can fit and fly.

If you can win the grid with a whole bunch of interceptors by actually fighting the guy with your interceptors then you should be able to win the site, but if you can't, then as much as possible it should go to the guy that wins.

but what would I know, I'm just a salvager

Specia1 K
State War Academy
Caldari State
#3274 - 2015-03-07 00:56:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Specia1 K
lilol' me wrote:
Vigilanta wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Mike Azariah wrote:
https://soundcloud.com/eve-down-under/eve-down-under-episode-97-060315 is the link of Fozzie being interviewed on Eve Down Under. You may want to skip the first 5 min of introductions.

He addresses interceptors @ 11 minute mark

'If gameplay devolves into people orbiting at 250 km . . . then we would make sure that that doesn't happen"

Prime Time window will be the first 'breakout thread.

Look, go listen for yourself . . . or wait for the next thread. Greygal voiced a good idea of linking prime window to the indices of the alliance. One that is not active would see their window widen, making them more vulnerable.

m


Listen to as much as I could stomach. When Fozzie got to the part where he talked about how much isk was being made in null and how "it's obviously valuable because people rent the space he proved that he doesn't understand the difference between isk (what you get in sov null from anomalies) and WEALTH (what you get more of if you know what you are doing outside, especially if you are doing it outside of sov null). the WEALTH faucets (LP and blue loot for examples) outside of null also sink isk which is good, but that doesn't matter to the individual whose wallet got fatter

The presence of rents means null systems AREN'T valuable enough to take for your self (but are totally ok as a form of passive income for your alliance). The kinds of liquid isk you can make in null as a renter is nice (and that liquidity and ease of acquisition is a key selling point), but it has a hard ceiling that once you get there, people usually smarten up and go do the more lucrative things (like l5 blitzing, FW l4 missions and high sec incursions)

If the main guy leading the charge for sov changes doesn't understand the above, the system he and his people develop when they get to he "why" stage (phase 3?) will be every bit as flawed as the last anomaly changes were (I'll refrain from linking that 4 year old dev blog just this once).

You're supposedly the PVE-ist CSM we have, you should know this things as well , no?



Did he actually say that? lord of mercy help us if he did. The way we rent space versus whether its valuable or not is up for debate. There is alot of systems that are basically given away just to generate ~any level of income~ form them. Something like 80% of the rent we collect comes from 5% of the best systems IN THE GAME. Im talking the perfect PVE systems in entire regions, your dead end, tons of advanced warning, lots of belts, ice, -.99 trusec systems. If you want a **** system there like 500 mil a month and you honestly could probably talk us down to 250 mil if you talked a good game. Better than moons? yes, but realize we sell our best space for this income, not just any nullsec system


What a load of complete and utter BS. You don't rent for 500mill or even 250mill. There around 1.5 bill at least i mean some are like a ridiculous 10-13billion!. You shouldn't be allowed to rent full stop. You are lazy so and so who intact should be living in their own systems and getting income from this. What gives you the right to say we own this but we won't live in it, so we 'rent' it out. I hate the whole rental thing, its getting out of hand, and if CCP do nothing to stop it then ill be unsubbing for sure this time. Its wrong for the game.


For me i would create a new instance of eve and let everyone else have a proper chance to start from the beginning, because anyone who has just started or even been playing a couple of years, either has to kiss someones ass, or will never ever get to the same level as the current large alliances, they just don't have the same options or opportunities. This is why people leave in droves. This is why other MMOs have many worlds so that everyone has a chance.


Yes. Reboot and start Eve2

Champion of the Knights of the General Discussion

Thunderdome

Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#3275 - 2015-03-07 01:15:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Alavaria Fera
Specia1 K wrote:
lilol' me wrote:

For me i would create a new instance of eve and let everyone else have a proper chance to start from the beginning, because anyone who has just started or even been playing a couple of years, either has to kiss someones ass, or will never ever get to the same level as the current large alliances, they just don't have the same options or opportunities. This is why people leave in droves. This is why other MMOs have many worlds so that everyone has a chance.


Yes. Reboot and start Eve2

Is this like some kind of star citizen reference

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Specia1 K
State War Academy
Caldari State
#3276 - 2015-03-07 01:24:34 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Specia1 K wrote:
lilol' me wrote:

For me i would create a new instance of eve and let everyone else have a proper chance to start from the beginning, because anyone who has just started or even been playing a couple of years, either has to kiss someones ass, or will never ever get to the same level as the current large alliances, they just don't have the same options or opportunities. This is why people leave in droves. This is why other MMOs have many worlds so that everyone has a chance.


Yes. Reboot and start Eve2

Is this like some kind of star citizen reference


No it is a lesson in the realities of the human condition.

"You always get a special kick on opening day, no matter how many you go through. You look forward to it like a birthday party when you're a kid. You think something wonderful is going to happen."

Joe DiMaggio

Champion of the Knights of the General Discussion

Thunderdome

Jenshae Chiroptera
#3277 - 2015-03-07 01:36:00 UTC
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
Ok, one point that seems to be being avoided or missed, If as some fear, goons send a swarm across new eden capturing everything as content for their players. Yes they can be disruptive, and yes, there will be lots of fights, and yes, they can capture lots of systems..

What then?

Are they going to sit there bored out of their brains?

No they will go home, back to their core, and then they can be taken back.
You haven't seen alliance fail-cascade and flip to alliances of another coalition have you?

It will just be two huge coalitions with gate camps all around to keep the roamers and griefers out. Then they will have their token wars. Bit like now but worse.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Eli Apol
Definitely a nullsec alt
#3278 - 2015-03-07 01:38:13 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
It will just be two huge coalitions with gate camps all around
If they get their way with not allowing interdiction nullified ships use the module then yep, this.

but what would I know, I'm just a salvager

Jenshae Chiroptera
#3279 - 2015-03-07 01:48:11 UTC
Aralyn Cormallen wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Edit: Hmmm ... flip all systems to, "Fozzie sucks" corporation, soon before leaving. Twisted
Ha ha ha. I can just imagine the Verite Map-over-time:, it gets to the month of the change, flashes up Fozzie Sucks in big letters across the map, before going black Lol. Your not an alt of one of us are you?
Nah, that is just me being playful. Goons are pretend evil, like kids wearing Darth Vader costumes for Halloween.
Eli Apol wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
It will just be two huge coalitions with gate camps all around
If they get their way with not allowing interdiction nullified ships use the module then yep, this.
This little corporation nearly took Y-M from a 1500 alliance under the current mechanics. We had to bore them out and just keep grinding SOV in overwhelming force.

The trouble is that Low Sec isn't the next step from High Sec, if it was a valid place to build a large alliance then Null Sec would not be stagnant, right now.

Null is a symptom of bad Low Sec.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

M1k3y Koontz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#3280 - 2015-03-07 02:12:49 UTC
Arrendis wrote:
Eli Apol wrote:
Arrendis wrote:
Don't let us do this.

If it really gets that bad, just obscene fitting reqs on the T2 version = trollceptors now have to orbit within web scram range and can't warp off for 5 minute cycles = lots and lots more dead interceptors


Trolling people with this won't require interceptors. T3s are enough - and we'll use them.


Great, you'll be slower, more expensive, and all the easier to kill. Please do use T3s.

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.