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Setting up in a WH

Author
Tylda Fortrum
Fortrum Investments Inc
#1 - 2015-03-03 14:02:47 UTC
I just had a couple of questions for all you wormhole gurus regarding setting up a POS in either a C1 or a C2 - I am half thinking about setting up a tower to try out WH life for a bit. After sifting through some topics on the forums I see that a large POS is the way forward, probably Amarr. I can cover the cost of fuel from other activities but I was hoping that my WH would be self sufficient. Would a C1 bring in enough iskies a month from exploration and combat sites to cover this or would I need to look towards a C2 with C1 static for this?

I will be solo so a concern of setting up in a C2 is the increased risk that someone will want to knock over my tower. I know this can be done in a C1 if someone is determined enough but it's less likely, right? It's risk v. reward, I know, but do people tend to bother about knocking down POS in lower class WHs such as a C2?

Also, are there any effects to avoid ie Blackholes, or any which are particularly useful? Any advice would be great. Cheers.
Obil Que
Star Explorers
Solis Tenebris
#2 - 2015-03-03 14:08:15 UTC
Tylda Fortrum wrote:
I just had a couple of questions for all you wormhole gurus regarding setting up a POS in either a C1 or a C2 - I am half thinking about setting up a tower to try out WH life for a bit. After sifting through some topics on the forums I see that a large POS is the way forward, probably Amarr. I can cover the cost of fuel from other activities but I was hoping that my WH would be self sufficient. Would a C1 bring in enough iskies a month from exploration and combat sites to cover this or would I need to look towards a C2 with C1 static for this?

I will be solo so a concern of setting up in a C2 is the increased risk that someone will want to knock over my tower. I know this can be done in a C1 if someone is determined enough but it's less likely, right? It's risk v. reward, I know, but do people tend to bother about knocking down POS in lower class WHs such as a C2?

Also, are there any effects to avoid ie Blackholes, or any which are particularly useful? Any advice would be great. Cheers.


You might be able to cover the cost of fuel depending on how good your PI is but that's about it. Home combat sites will deplete quickly and be sporadic. It is always more desirable to have the hole you want to make ISK in be your static as you can always roll for a new one when you need additional content (other than C1 holes being a PITA to roll). You also then have the advantage of also having C2 home sites to add to your total.
HTC NecoSino
Suddenly Carebears
#3 - 2015-03-03 14:15:35 UTC
2 characters in T3s.

Find a C3 with a **** ton of anoms to run
Make a whole bunch of safe spots
Bring in a hauler and anchor a few cans. Put ammo, refits for your T3s, maybe a couple spare depots, etc in the cans.
Bring your T3s in, cloaky PvP fit.
When you're ready to run sites, have your site running T3 refit for PvE, your other should still be cloaky PvP fit and sit on an inbound hole or on grid with your PvE T3.
When you're done running sites, refit one T3 to salvagers, salvage the site and put loot in your can.

Rinse, repeat. Always log off safely away from your cans with your cloaky pvp fits.

Is it as efficient as putting up a tower? Yeah if you consider fuel costs and the cost of the tower.
Are you just as safe? Pretty much.
Plus, you may log on and find someone running a site in your hole. You're cloaky pvp fit and didn't come through a WH - kill whatever is running the sites. Then you get their loot to add to your haul :)

I've done this quite a few times, and killed a lot of site runners, including marauders, making it all the more worthwhile if your corp is in a downtime, lost their home, holidays, whatever.
Sequester Risalo
German Corps of Engineers 17
Federation of Respect Honor Passion Alliance.
#4 - 2015-03-03 15:23:57 UTC
Obil Que wrote:
You might be able to cover the cost of fuel depending on how good your PI is but that's about it. Home combat sites will deplete quickly and be sporadic. It is always more desirable to have the hole you want to make ISK in be your static as you can always roll for a new one when you need additional content (other than C1 holes being a PITA to roll). You also then have the advantage of also having C2 home sites to add to your total.


This is not entirely true. You need roughly 12-15 million ISK per day to sustain a large tower. This can be easily achieved in a low class wormhole with one or two characters. Besides PI and combat sites you can huff gases and run reactions or explore nullsec sites. One intact small hull in a relic site will go a long way. I think you could even sustain a large tower with mining alone. Since the introduction of nullsec sites I have not bottomed out my hole despite my best efforts.

It depends on what you want. A C2 is better connected to deeper w-space for better or worse while a C1 with any static but highsec makes for a relatively secluded life.
Delt0r Garsk
Shits N Giggles
#5 - 2015-03-03 15:26:36 UTC
I wouldn't recommend a large tower. They chew through a lot of fuel, and you spend a lot of time hauling fuel. Med would be fine with heaps of ewar, makes taking on the pos really lame (like fighting a bunch or falcons or rooks), so people are less likely to do it.

IMO your better off with several smaller pos than one large one in the smaller WH classes. We had a C2 where PI was making me 1B a month when i could be bothered doing it.

AKA the scientist.

Death and Glory!

Well fun is also good.

KC Kamikaze
Blue-Fire
#6 - 2015-03-03 15:27:26 UTC
The option I'm using is a C3-NS with a medium tower. I have 6 toons in an alt corp and they all have less than 14m skill points.

I run combat sites in RR domis, have the aforementioned medium tower, and a handful of pvp ships and scan/data/relic frigs. I have not done any PI to date still working towards t2 sentry drones and some other stuff first, but just doing the sites and a little plinking around in null gets me an easy 10b a month.

The null sec relic sites that spawn in C1-C3 holes are very nice. As a solo operation this is a good one. I log in and work the wormhole maybe once or twice a week if a lot of sites spawn and log in more just to scan when i need to bring stuff in or out. Finding a way out of a hole with a null static is a *****... won't lie. It will be more than a little frustrating at times, but overall I like the isolation and it's enough isk to pay for the accounts while they skill up and covers any losses I incur ... lets face it everyone and their brother in wspace loves to gank site running fleets and domis are a juicy target.

Wherever you go expect to lose ships and make sure you are flying things you can easily afford to lose and never have all your toons out of the pos. If you get jumped and podded out you may not be able to find your way back in and you'll lose everything you have in there.


I don't think a C1 hole would be worth anything for making isk unless all your alts are awesome at PI.

C2 holes are like c4's ... swiss cheese lots of connections and lots of PvP.

Also it's not a bad idea to give good fights when you can ... even if it's just a sacrifice to bob. Most large corps in wspace are of the mindset that if you are in wspace and don't give good fights you don't belong here, and if you get someone with a hair up their ass they may actually try to evict you so it's best to just pony up the sacrifice now and then. Speaking from experience when people wont fight us when they can the first thing we do is start knocking on towers to force the fight.

If you want more advice or logistical info on how it's done I'd be happy to help you out just shoot me an evemail with your questions.
Tylda Fortrum
Fortrum Investments Inc
#7 - 2015-03-03 16:03:23 UTC
Thanks very much for all the advice - much appreciated. Has certainly given me more to think about. I have a couple of weeks to train one or two things before I'll make a decision but have a feeling that I may try solo for a while and then maybe look up a decent corp if they'll have me :)

I'm more than happy to provide appropriate sacrifices to Bob where necessary - libations and incense, pod goo and 'splosions - most likely my own rather than anyone elses!
Ilaister
Binary Aesthetics
#8 - 2015-03-03 16:08:48 UTC
Good attitude OP. You will be a benefit to WH space.
Amak Boma
Dragon Factory
xX SERENITY Xx
#9 - 2015-03-03 17:55:10 UTC
wll its good to have medium tower , large is too much effort. as for wormhole class class 1 is good starter but you should consider looking for better wormhole sush c2 static low with c2 static. once your home is empty you can go to your secondary static. if you are scared of pirates then take c2 with highsec and c3 static. both c2 and c3 will provide you faction data/relics for extra profit. not only sleeper loot! c3 null static is good but from time to time you will recevie k-space exits so you can fuel towers etc. just take the way that is fitting your needs. wormholes theoretically can be soloed and people do solo them with no probems. just hit ur dscan like crazy
Desimus Maximus
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#10 - 2015-03-04 18:50:41 UTC
Solo. Not worth it in any circumstance. It's just not practical unless you have a trillion ISK to just blow on upkeep. And no amount of ISK can watch your back and all of the constantly rolling holes. WH shouldn't be run bay anything less than 10 active players at a minimum. It's just too much. I know you want to try it.. but it really isn't worth it.
Kynric
Sky Fighters
Rote Kapelle
#11 - 2015-03-04 19:09:28 UTC
Bah, do it if it interests you. Stay busy and isk will not be a problem; sit in the shields and it will be. Sites in your home, sites in whatever connects to your home or an adjacent kspace, pi, kspace things, shoot other peopke and scoop the loot, there is no end to the money and entertainment that surrounds you. Stay busy, give fights, find the jewel that others do not recognize and keep expenses low. While others worry you could already have moved in.
Pax Deltari
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2015-03-04 19:13:57 UTC
Desimus Maximus wrote:
Solo. Not worth it in any circumstance. It's just not practical unless you have a trillion ISK to just blow on upkeep. And no amount of ISK can watch your back and all of the constantly rolling holes. WH shouldn't be run bay anything less than 10 active players at a minimum. It's just too much. I know you want to try it.. but it really isn't worth it.



What..? You are new aren't you.

C2 and C1's are perfectly fine to live in solo.

Upkeep is really cheap. A large POS runs about 300-350mil in fuel costs per month. or about 80 mil per week. That's like 2-4 combat sites with decent salvage. Sites that are EASILY soloable.

Watching your back is simply hitting D-Scan which is the same in any wormhole class whether you have corp mates or are solo its just part of wormhole life.

Ignore everything this joker is saying as it's complete baloney. You can easily live solo in a C1 or C2 (with a scan alt for saftey) and make an enormous amount of isk. If you're interested in some more specific info on it/how feel free to shoot me an eve-mail. Hell I know people who have lived in a C5 for more than 6 months practically solo without much issue.

At the end of the day the actual wormhole that you live in isn't very important since most of the sites/money making activities will be done outside of your home system.
Incestuous Criticism
#13 - 2015-03-05 03:16:27 UTC
Hey Tylda,

Have a crack mate. I have an ALT Corp been living in a WH for about 4 months now.

Yes I have had a few campers, just cloaky eyes waiting for a stray ship. Have lost a couple of haulers an Venture.

I only play part time so I am not farming anomalies every day.

I had my initial cost of setting up a Medium POS.

Am fairly self sufficient, do PI to make POS fuel, minus two ingredients that I have to import.

So blue loot, the odd ore, gas harvesting and extra PI stuff to sell is how I make ISK.

Enjoy, it is good fun. Am enjoying it more than I thought. Once I have done it for a bit I am considering joining a WH Corp for that extra enjoyment.

Oh and ALT's have also had the opportunity of killing the odd high-sec dweller farming the sites.



Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#14 - 2015-03-05 04:50:12 UTC
Join a corp/move if with one if you want to live in a WH.
yes, you CAN live there solo but it's hella boring and you make more ISK just running WH sites from HS.
WHs are not solo game play friendly.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout

Speedy Conzollis
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#15 - 2015-03-05 10:18:47 UTC
What TZ are you in? With your refreshing attitude, I for one would welcome you in to our small but friendly corp. Mail me or join our Public channel, Hooky Street if interested.
Tylda Fortrum
Fortrum Investments Inc
#16 - 2015-03-05 11:15:35 UTC
Thanks again for your comments and advice guys. Really helpful. I'm still torn at the moment as to whether I should put up a medium or large tower in a C1. This is kind of an experiment so part of me thinks just minimise the fuel costs, the other thinks just suck it up and go with a big stick :) We shall see! I've found a WH that has tickled my fancy and currently have a scanning alt inside so just waiting for the opportune moment to set up shop.

With regards to the offers and advice of joining corps, I really do appreciate it and is definitely something I will consider. I think at the moment, my mind is set on giving it a go solo, however, I'm sure I'll get bored, lonely or become a sacrificial lamb to Bob (several times over), at which point, I may very well see if anyone will take me in.
Drigo Segvian
Black Fox Marauders
Pen Is Out
#17 - 2015-03-13 16:43:10 UTC
Start with a medium and if you find that it is super easy to keep up then try a large.
Zekora Rally
U2EZ
#18 - 2015-03-13 20:50:47 UTC
Solo work in a wormhole is not for someone trying it out for the first time. There's so much that can go wrong and you'll have to learn the hard way which is not entirely a bad thing but it can be very frustrating.

I'll recommend joining a wh corp first and learning all the tricks to surviving in a wh. For the most part, it's not rocket science, unless, you are trying to figure out POS roles. A corp that is not afraid to bring out the guns from time to time would be great. This way you'll learn what it takes to succesfully pull of a gank and on the flip side, how you would prevent it.
Ghenghis Kralj
Big Johnson's
#19 - 2015-03-16 15:53:37 UTC
Desimus Maximus wrote:
Solo. Not worth it in any circumstance. It's just not practical unless you have a trillion ISK to just blow on upkeep. And no amount of ISK can watch your back and all of the constantly rolling holes. WH shouldn't be run bay anything less than 10 active players at a minimum. It's just too much. I know you want to try it.. but it really isn't worth it.


lol don't listen to this guy
Ghenghis Kralj
Big Johnson's
#20 - 2015-03-16 15:59:25 UTC
Tylda Fortrum wrote:
Thanks again for your comments and advice guys. Really helpful. I'm still torn at the moment as to whether I should put up a medium or large tower in a C1. This is kind of an experiment so part of me thinks just minimise the fuel costs, the other thinks just suck it up and go with a big stick :) We shall see! I've found a WH that has tickled my fancy and currently have a scanning alt inside so just waiting for the opportune moment to set up shop.

With regards to the offers and advice of joining corps, I really do appreciate it and is definitely something I will consider. I think at the moment, my mind is set on giving it a go solo, however, I'm sure I'll get bored, lonely or become a sacrificial lamb to Bob (several times over), at which point, I may very well see if anyone will take me in.


It's an experiment. Just do a medium in a c1 and see how it goes. Mainly because you will be a sacrificial lamb, and you don't want to lose too much; however, no one is likely to evict you. Now, C1s are historically seen as a pretty bad wormholes to live in unless you are an indy corp that exports products out to HS. The main reason is that you don't have a static to work off while others rolling into your wh can use your sites. In addition, good C1s (HS) are mostly taken especially if they have even decent PI.

My suggestion would be a c2 with a HS and c1 static. Those are less occupied and would still yield the type of content that you are looking for. The main disadvantage for you is that there will be more stuff for you to keep your eye and years on or it will represent higher risk if you are running sites blindly.
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