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Give Nullsec NPC some love and bring the fun back to PVP
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tiberiusric
Comply Or Die
The Initiative.
#1 - 2015-03-03 12:27:20 UTC  |  Edited by: tiberiusric
Fellow capsuleers

I have personally lived in pretty much every nullsec npc region for years, mainly Curse, Stain, Venal and Syndicate.
I believe they are great for things like pvp, and potentially growing pvp corps and alliances alike.
However i say potentially, because usually what happens is that the Sov holidng alliance on the surrounding region end up living in the NPC region and leaving their own. Not sure I agree thats right is it?

Now not only does that cause a problem but some other factors do also such as, the lack of stations in some regions in the case of Venal and Great Wildlands, but mainly what doesnt help is the severe lack of a market.

With the Pheobe changes hauling stuff for small groups is a lot harder and easier for surrounding sov holdng alliances to have some kills.

NPC is a great place for younger groups or even just small gang pvpers to have some great fun and my suggestion is to for CCP to really embrace that and start building them up a bit better.

I DID SUGGEST MOVING CURRENT NPC REGIONS, ADDING MORE STATIONS AND SEEDING MARKET. I agree its probably too much of a change....

EDITED *- NEW PROPOSAL **
so perhaps we add more nullsec npc regions (probably 3)
into the places i suggested. But also add more low sec entry points into the current npc regions. So yes add more syndicate type regions but with better sec systems as well. Why syndicate clones, plenty of stations and systems really

OK so if we add more regions, then we don't need to seed the markets as its already around highest, lowsec regions. I still think they need to be placed in between current low sec systems.

Each having the same pirate npc types as the regions
Aridia/Khanid - blood
Black Rise - guristas
Heimatar - Angels
etc




I think its time we made pvp great again, and i think this would certainly go towards that.

All my views are my own - never be afraid to post with your main, unless you're going to post some dumb shit
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#2 - 2015-03-03 13:12:57 UTC
Quote:
Add more seeded market hubs so again people have the access to stuff to thrive. Yes CCP can do this, I know T2 stuff is player driven but it can be done.

Did you really just suggest that CCP should seed the market?`Roll I hope you do realize that the market is the single most important, player-driven feature of the game. I do not need to comment further on that outrageous demand.
I also absolutely do not share your view on limited markets. I am seeding markets everywhere my mates go and I do so with Blockade Runners and Wormholes or with JF. There has absolutely nothing changed compared to pre-Phoebe as JF can still jump nearly as far as they could before. Direct WH connections also have increased, be it from Null to Low or Low to Low/High. It is as easy as it has ever been to seed stations with goods. If you feel your home's market is lacking, import stuff, build stuff, make others import stuff/build stuff and reward them, encourage them. Making PVP great and taking away player-driven parts of the game exclude each other. Your focus on destroying ships/objects and ignoring the rest of the game's playerdriven characteristics is not going to achieve what you want to achieve.

I also do not agree that Great Wildlands, in particular, and Venal should have more stations. GW is the home to the Thukker Tribe, a nomadic group which does not settle down. Their region perfectly symbolizes that by having a limited meeting area where the tribes can gather, exchange goods and information, and vast empty areas where they can live their nomadic life style to the fullest. If that is nothing for you, you should not go to such a place. Making these places just like any other places in EVE, takes away a huge chunk of distinguishing characteristic. Guristas Pirates are known for being secretive and prohibit access for outsiders to their installations. Having few stations accessible by outsiders makes perfect sense. And before you get started with Outer Ring; that region is maintained by a single corporation. Them having limited station count is clearly understandable as well. Again, if that is not sufficient for you, chose another region. Stain has tons of stations, Syndicate and the Delve constellations do, too.

Furthermore, Syndicate is already entrenched between Placid and Solitude/Aridia. How much closer to Low sec do you want to it to be? Delve is not an NPC Region, but only has NPC constellations. Venal is the hideout for the Guristas pirates, do you really think they would have chosen a region as their hideout that is so close to Empire space?

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
handige harrie
Vereenigde Handels Compagnie
#3 - 2015-03-03 14:12:42 UTC
I always thought of it the other way around.

If alliances are done with SOV Nullsec shennanigans and want to be PVP focussed they move to NPC nullsec, as it appears most PVP focussed alliances operate in NPC Null instead of SOV Null.

But I'm still on the fence if you can even compare the 2 as one as something more 'up the ladder' as the other.

Baddest poster ever
Agondray
Avenger Mercenaries
VOID Intergalactic Forces
#4 - 2015-03-03 14:15:40 UTC
lets go down this shall we?

1. The reason why the surrounding sov holders invade npc space is they want kills, unless their blue buddy is flying something expensive, they have to go out to get kills and usually people in npc space aren't organized unless its someone wanting to do a gate camp which is usually a sov holder anyways.

2. No to more stations because more stations does not equal thriving, it equals more station games. Ive ran a market out of a POS before and ran many markets out of local stations.

3. market seeding? very few things are actually seeded like trade goods, bpos, and skills and most of everything else is over 90% player made and seeded. ofcourse of the over 90% items seeded by players some of those numbers are 100% of t2 and t3.

4. moving npc regions from sov systems? that can never happen because something is always going to border them. When I was off in npc space we suffered daily incursions from fleets from empire that want to test their fits and get kills while staying in the safety of empire so they cant get raided back.

5. PVP would still be the same, you want to say that null entities don't raid low sec? go to amamake, there is usually some alliance there with a gate camp, and some other areas of space also have permacamps at the edge of empire and low sec. The only people that small gang fight are the people that cant get the power for a sizable fleet.

"Sarcasm is the Recourse of a weak mind." -Dr. Smith
Zura Namee
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2015-03-03 15:17:31 UTC
tiberiusric wrote:
...Add more seeded market hubs...


No.
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
#6 - 2015-03-03 15:42:39 UTC
Some thoughts:

1. CCP doesn't "seed" stations (aside from NPC buy and sell orders) players do. Do you think CCP "seeded" Jita? Nope. Jita was born because it was home to the highest quality agent for the most popular NPC corp to run missions for.

2. What you're proposing with "moving" NPC nullsec is absurd because it would involve, well, physically relocating entire regions of stars. CCP as added new regions before, but moving existing ones makes zero sense.

3. What I could potentially see, however, are new NPC nullsec regions being added into the places you described. I don't necessarily think it's a good idea, but it would make much more sense from a gameplay/lore/basic physics standpoint, especially with all of the Caroline's Star/Sleeper/Drifter stuff going on.

Relatively Notorious By Association

My Many Misadventures

I predicted FAUXs
tiberiusric
Comply Or Die
The Initiative.
#7 - 2015-03-03 15:48:41 UTC
Zura Namee wrote:
tiberiusric wrote:
...Add more seeded market hubs...


No.


See comments like this are just pointless and ignored. However thanks for the comments people actually had time to write and think about, and of course the response is expected, i mean its a potential huge change in how things work. But its time to be radical chaps. It does tire me when I hear people who have played the game that they are always opposed to changes ,why because it usually affects them personally, without looking at what the game needs.
only
But i will try answer people as it deserves it given you spent time responding.

Market Seeding
Some of the comments are interesting and agreed wormholes etc have increased but so has the risk. You talk as if its risk free. Its not especially nullsec npc where there is a spy alt in almost every jump point. So who are you encourging to build etc? Do you know how many people it takes to build a very good market? Its almost impossible unless you are a specific large alliance that need to do this, of which is now happening. For instance the decent market in Stain is in the TG- system, out of all the systems in Stain thats it. Plenty of Stations but poor market.

To be honest most people are not interested in the RP side of things, so whether Thukker did whatever is frankly of no interest to me and lots of other people. The back history is interesting but on a day to day basis no one gives a damn. Sorry.
Remember those factions are just NPCs, they are not real players. If you wanted to go by that then you wouldn't have NPCs in every belt in every system etc.

On the subject of sov alliances moving to NPC for PVP, is incorrect. One is because they can store assets in a safe region because its NPC. Another is so they can farm the faction/officer spawns and also farm the pirate missions gaining the expensive BPCs and implants. Great way for their guys to make ISK.

Personally if you want SOV then you should be using it and farming the resources, there.

Station Games - Thats always going to happen, you can't stop that unless CCP change it. If you are going to sit and wait and play stations games more fool you. Go look for other targets.

Im not sure what Agondry means about border systems, they will still have border systems just in a different place.

Whats Amamake got to do with nullsec. Its the home of PL who used to be lowest pirates, thats all nothing else. In fact i spent a few years in Amamake. Other alliances go to low sec when they get kicked out of SOV, or again they want to farm FW missions. Thats all.

More stations will allow more people to dwell there, otherwise the whole region is taken by either the SOV alliance or a couple of PVP entities. Now don't get me wrong it is a hive of activity, but i would like to see more and more smaller groups being able to live in NPC nullsec. Look at Stain it has a lot of people in all corners of the region. It should have more, ad would do i believe if the market was better.
Also no one is saying you can't seeded it yourself also, but unless you live there why would you? Most people that build to that scale just seed the highest hubs.

Now if it wasn't for the fatigue changes I probably wouldn't of suggested the seeding of markets, as its quite easy to carrier jump stuff. Its a lot more difficult now even for JFs. Remember also that JF change is only temp, CCP may go the full hog still.

Im not expecting the market to be a fully seeded market like Jita but in a lot of those regions the market is pathetic at best.

I know this is a massive change for some people to get their head around, and i accept people won't agree with my suggestion (not demands)

All my views are my own - never be afraid to post with your main, unless you're going to post some dumb shit
tiberiusric
Comply Or Die
The Initiative.
#8 - 2015-03-03 15:51:13 UTC  |  Edited by: tiberiusric
Bronson Hughes wrote:
Some thoughts:

1. CCP doesn't "seed" stations (aside from NPC buy and sell orders) players do. Do you think CCP "seeded" Jita? Nope. Jita was born because it was home to the highest quality agent for the most popular NPC corp to run missions for.

2. What you're proposing with "moving" NPC nullsec is absurd because it would involve, well, physically relocating entire regions of stars. CCP as added new regions before, but moving existing ones makes zero sense.

3. What I could potentially see, however, are new NPC nullsec regions being added into the places you described. I don't necessarily think it's a good idea, but it would make much more sense from a gameplay/lore/basic physics standpoint, especially with all of the Caroline's Star/Sleeper/Drifter stuff going on.


Grandma and suck eggs.. on point 1.
Point 2 : I did say this was radical, and it can be done, just because it hasn't before. It makes sense to me :) But i agree it is a big change and may well never happen. Not sure its absurd though.

Point 3 : Fair enough. Fair suggestion to add more rather than move whats already. As long as its null npc. I have edited my post to reflect that.

All my views are my own - never be afraid to post with your main, unless you're going to post some dumb shit
Reina Xyaer
Tha Lench Mob
#9 - 2015-03-03 18:49:33 UTC
tiberiusric wrote:

Grandma and suck eggs.. on point 1.



What?

-1

Don't need to explain myself, I just agree with all the other posters who disagree with OP.
Vic Jefferson
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#10 - 2015-03-03 20:51:37 UTC
The seeding markets thing is daft.

If NPC null were actually worth it for smaller alliances, activity would just naturally spur market hubs into existence.

Some NPC null has good LP stores, but is logistically challenging. Some NPC null has terrible LP stores, but is logistically easy. If ever there was NPC null with both good features, it would be amazing.

Buff Syndicate.

Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X.....XI.....XII?
Zura Namee
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2015-03-03 21:57:37 UTC
tiberiusric wrote:
Zura Namee wrote:
tiberiusric wrote:
...Add more seeded market hubs...


No.


See comments like this are just pointless and ignored. However thanks for the comments people actually had time to write and think about, and of course the response is expected, i mean its a potential huge change in how things work. But its time to be radical chaps. It does tire me when I hear people who have played the game that they are always opposed to changes ,why because it usually affects them personally, without looking at what the game needs.
only
But i will try answer people as it deserves it given you spent time responding.

Market Seeding
Some of the comments are interesting and agreed wormholes etc have increased but so has the risk. You talk as if its risk free. Its not especially nullsec npc where there is a spy alt in almost every jump point. So who are you encourging to build etc? Do you know how many people it takes to build a very good market? Its almost impossible unless you are a specific large alliance that need to do this, of which is now happening. For instance the decent market in Stain is in the TG- system, out of all the systems in Stain thats it. Plenty of Stations but poor market.

To be honest most people are not interested in the RP side of things, so whether Thukker did whatever is frankly of no interest to me and lots of other people. The back history is interesting but on a day to day basis no one gives a damn. Sorry.
Remember those factions are just NPCs, they are not real players. If you wanted to go by that then you wouldn't have NPCs in every belt in every system etc.

On the subject of sov alliances moving to NPC for PVP, is incorrect. One is because they can store assets in a safe region because its NPC. Another is so they can farm the faction/officer spawns and also farm the pirate missions gaining the expensive BPCs and implants. Great way for their guys to make ISK.

Personally if you want SOV then you should be using it and farming the resources, there.

Station Games - Thats always going to happen, you can't stop that unless CCP change it. If you are going to sit and wait and play stations games more fool you. Go look for other targets.

Im not sure what Agondry means about border systems, they will still have border systems just in a different place.

Whats Amamake got to do with nullsec. Its the home of PL who used to be lowest pirates, thats all nothing else. In fact i spent a few years in Amamake. Other alliances go to low sec when they get kicked out of SOV, or again they want to farm FW missions. Thats all.

More stations will allow more people to dwell there, otherwise the whole region is taken by either the SOV alliance or a couple of PVP entities. Now don't get me wrong it is a hive of activity, but i would like to see more and more smaller groups being able to live in NPC nullsec. Look at Stain it has a lot of people in all corners of the region. It should have more, ad would do i believe if the market was better.
Also no one is saying you can't seeded it yourself also, but unless you live there why would you? Most people that build to that scale just seed the highest hubs.

Now if it wasn't for the fatigue changes I probably wouldn't of suggested the seeding of markets, as its quite easy to carrier jump stuff. Its a lot more difficult now even for JFs. Remember also that JF change is only temp, CCP may go the full hog still.

Im not expecting the market to be a fully seeded market like Jita but in a lot of those regions the market is pathetic at best.

I know this is a massive change for some people to get their head around, and i accept people won't agree with my suggestion (not demands)



You didn't say anything worthy of a proper response, but seeding markets is exceptionally stupid and you should feel bad for suggesting it.
Good Apollo BS4
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2015-03-07 04:24:16 UTC
Believe me you could add all the stations you want to GW and it would still be awful.

GW... Just say no.