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Sojourn: The Amarr
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Lunarisse Aspenstar
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#301 - 2015-10-26 15:23:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Lunarisse Aspenstar
Lyn Farel wrote:
Why would SFRIM resources be devoted to convert pilgrims or allies?

That would be rather disrespectful..


I am uncertain what this comment means.

At all times, we, the Faithful are called to witness for the Faith. Admittedly there are many ways to Reclaim as the history of the Amarr show and as necessity and circumstances dictates.

The Society itself has a mission to educate the Cluster at large as to what it means to be Amarr and of the Faith, and not what lurid gallente holo flicks or Matari propaganda might wish people to think, through example and teaching.

As for me, to pursue this mission on a personal level, my preference is preach the Faith in a rather low pressure way by seeking to use kindly words and to live an example of a virtous life, yes, even to pilgrims and allies - my cherished and valued friends - because I love them. To do anything else, would be to deny them an essential part of myself.
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#302 - 2015-10-26 18:37:28 UTC
Aria Jenneth wrote:
Really, suuolo.

I've got some things I need to tidy up first, though. PYRE's been good to me, so I don't want to just disappear without notice.


Many of our pilots join for short tours of duty and then go on with the lives they put on hold to join us. I'm sure that nobody will hold your transient visit against you, Aria. I consider my life a little richer for having counted you as a kirjuun, even if only briefly and I hope you gained something from your time with us too.

The best contract is the contract that profits both parties - and my party just a little more! ;)

I have nothing but kind words to say about SFRIM in general and know many of their pilots personally. I can see why you'd feel that they might be a calmer and more permanent haven for you. Good luck in your future endeavours!

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#303 - 2015-10-26 20:32:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Lyn Farel
Samira Kernher wrote:
Lyn Farel wrote:
Why would SFRIM resources be devoted to convert pilgrims or allies?

That would be rather disrespectful..


Because it is the duty of all Amarr to Reclaim God's creations.

It can be overt or subtle, but the effort must always be made.


Ms. Jenneth- Welcome back.


Respectfully, I do not think we share the same definition of the effort in question nor the way to do it..
Bel Boma
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#304 - 2015-10-26 20:35:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Bel Boma
Sinjin Mokk wrote:
Arkoth 24 wrote:
Nauplius wrote:
more religious nonsense

That miserable being invents it's imaginary allmighty god first and then starts to tell what that god wants and what it does. Someone should put the end to it's suffering already.



We're working on it.

Sadly, he's not entirely wrong.

I have as much respect and regard for Ms. Jenneth as anyone, but she is not our kind. Unless she has a sincere desire to convert, I'm of the opinion that SFRIM resources would be better used to educate the wayward faithful who already serve the Empire. It is appropriate to extend to her a welcome as she is a nominal ally, but I don't see her converting to the faith any time soon. And she has already been exposed to life in Amarr as a second-class citizen.

I welcome you back Ms. Jenneth. Perhaps you would like to extend your sojourn to Khanid? We do things a bit different here. I think you may like those differences.



Lyn Farel wrote:
Why would SFRIM resources be devoted to convert pilgrims or allies?

That would be rather disrespectful..



As one of SFRIM's recruiters, I will clarify this tragic misunderstanding.

SFRIM does currently accept those interested in converting and learning about the Faith. We have already extended several invitations to those converting or considering converting, though their application process is more tedious and conditional. Converts and potential converts will need to be trusted to both represent SFRIM in the future, and potentially to handle sensitive corp information, without having the aid of years of experience in the Faith.

Make no mistake: SFRIM has the resources and manpower to assist both those interested in the Faith for conversion reasons and for academic reasons. We may not be the military machine that is PIE, but our different resources are considerable in their own right.

This is not a waste of SFRIM resources, as decided by our ever Faithful Directrix and agreed upon by the majority of our officers. Our purpose is primarily to spread the Word of God; even if Ms. Jenneth herself does not convert, her writings may influence those considering conversion, and may improve the perception of the Faith in the cluster. If you believe SFRIM is not acting properly in accordance to the Scriptures nor the law of the Empire, I extend to you an invitation to discussion in our public channel, The Good Word. Any of our officers would be happy to entertain you.

It is our continued belief that any Faith-based guidance is an act of love and respect, towards the Faith and the person in question.
Charles Cambridge Schmidt
Nadire Security Consultants
Federation Peacekeepers
#305 - 2015-10-26 21:02:34 UTC
Bel Boma wrote:
really good words


You tell'm, girl.

I don't care what you think, as long as it's about me.
Goldfinch
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#306 - 2015-10-26 21:02:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Goldfinch
Lyn Farel wrote:
Samira Kernher wrote:
Because it is the duty of all Amarr to Reclaim God's creations.

It can be overt or subtle, but the effort must always be made.


Respectfully, I do not think we share the same definition of the effort in question nor the way to do it..


Lynara, in observing your methods this little bird will make her attempt at mimicry.

Not laying our own judgment upon it, how do you think it should be done?

\J/

veiled and bound

my origin story (on eve-backstage)
Vollhov
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#307 - 2015-10-26 21:39:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Vollhov
Del.
Here there was a text. Cry

End of Time. I'm not fanatic, I'm just a servant by Her Majesty the Empress Jamyl Sarum I. It's time to leave this world to me. YC111 to YC117.12.10 20:00
Alizebeth Amalath
Doomheim
#308 - 2015-10-27 03:42:24 UTC
Lyn Farel wrote:
Why would SFRIM resources be devoted to convert pilgrims or allies?

That would be rather disrespectful..

To not do so would be to fail God. The Amarr are called to reclaim all.
Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#309 - 2015-10-27 13:37:26 UTC
There is a time for everything, reverend.


Goldfinch wrote:
Lyn Farel wrote:
Samira Kernher wrote:
Because it is the duty of all Amarr to Reclaim God's creations.

It can be overt or subtle, but the effort must always be made.


Respectfully, I do not think we share the same definition of the effort in question nor the way to do it..


Lynara, in observing your methods this little bird will make her attempt at mimicry.

Not laying our own judgment upon it, how do you think it should be done?


It is quite simple: forceful Reclaiming under pressure, works best for cutlural assimilation of unwilling populations. This is what has been done with many prior to that point (Udor, Ni-Kunni, Ealur, Minmatar, etc). It eventually consist in taking in captivity a population until after generation it turns into your own.

You are speaking here about guests and allies... If they are not willing to convert, then the only resulting option you have as an Amarr reclaimer, is to apply pressure or even forceful conversion, no matter how gentle you can be. Especially in the case of Ms Jenneth, I do believe that she is intelligent enough to notice it, and take offense at it.

Thus doing so would be counter productive.

Also, I think that too many Amarr fail to think on the long run. If you are so sure that it will happen, then why are you desperately trying to rush it, grasping at straws, and flunking all of it in the process?
Samira Kernher
Cail Avetatu
#310 - 2015-10-27 13:39:10 UTC
So you would give up, just because it is difficult?
Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#311 - 2015-10-27 13:40:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Lyn Farel
Huh... What?
Samira Kernher
Cail Avetatu
#312 - 2015-10-27 13:42:37 UTC
If they are not willing, you consider it 'counter productive' to continue to apply pressure.

Lyn Farel wrote:
If they are not willing to convert, then the only resulting option you have as an Amarr reclaimer, is to apply pressure or even forceful conversion, no matter how gentle you can be. Especially in the case of Ms Jenneth, I do believe that she is intelligent enough to notice it, and take offense at it.

Thus doing so would be counter productive.
Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#313 - 2015-10-27 13:51:54 UTC
But it is, isn't it?

Anyway, I am not a missionary. SFRIM is a different matter, true. I will certainly not speak for the whole entity.

I do not consider Ms Jenneth to be a stranger to the Faith. If you consider that Faith is just a matter of pompous ceremonials and artifacts of course, then yes, she might be one... And me and many Amarr the same way.

I just feel that your interpretation of the Faith, is not mine on many points. The wonders of heterodoxy, I guess.
Samira Kernher
Cail Avetatu
#314 - 2015-10-27 14:02:15 UTC
My "interpretation" is that it is the Destiny of Faith given to us by God to Reclaim all of His creations and cultivate the spirit of man.

We are all missionaries, because any one of our actions can inspire others to righteousness or to sin.
Gwen Ikiryo
Alexylva Paradox
#315 - 2015-10-27 14:51:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Gwen Ikiryo
I'd have to agree with miss Farel that it seems insensible, if only from a pragmatic standpoint, to persist forcefully (well, as far as "forcefully" can go in terms of non-violence) in trying to convert individuals who have made firmly clear they don't want to be converted.

If you think of ideas as a sort of virus (negative connotation incidental, seriously), spreading socially from one person to another, then it stands to reason that there will always be people "immune" to them. Now, a smart virus knows how to react to these sorts of situations. At the moment, you could describe Aria as a sort of "carrier" of the Amarrian faith, not actively extolling it's virtues or following it herself, but still giving it publicity and social bandwidth. She does this because it hasn't inconvenienced her directly, and she's been able to remain, I assume, in her comfort zone. For the purposes of the analogy, think of it as going to work and giving your cold to everyone while cheerfully going about your business as normal.

A stupid virus, however, still attacks a carrier with minor secondary symptoms even if it can't truly take root. This causes them to to stay in bed rather than going out, or worse, develop antibodies (read: negative publicity) which can harm it in a grander context beyond merely the individual. This seems to me what pressuring her to convert would accomplish.
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#316 - 2015-10-27 14:56:29 UTC
Lyn Farel wrote:
You are speaking here about guests and allies... If they are not willing to convert, then the only resulting option you have as an Amarr reclaimer, is to apply pressure or even forceful conversion, no matter how gentle you can be. Especially in the case of Ms Jenneth, I do believe that she is intelligent enough to notice it, and take offense at it.

Thus doing so would be counter productive.

Your consideration is appreciated, suuolo. I also like your view of the faith, and you're not the only one to have said such things.

But ...

I know to begin with that many among the Amarr will see it as a sacred duty to try to bring me formally into the faith, or, as in Ms. Boma's argument, use me as a tool to attract others. It's expected, so if I thought of it as offensive I'd avoid it to begin with.
Tyrel Toov
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#317 - 2015-10-27 15:00:26 UTC
Gwen Ikiryo wrote:
I'd have to agree with miss Farel that it seems insensible, if only from a pragmatic standpoint, to persist forcefully (well, as far as "forcefully" can go in terms of non-violence) in trying to convert individuals who have made firmly clear they don't want to be converted.

If you think of ideas as a sort of virus (negative connotation incidental, seriously), spreading socially from one person to another, then it stands to reason that there will always be people "immune" to them. Now, a smart virus knows how to react to these sorts of situations. At the moment, you could describe Aria as a sort of "carrier" of the Amarrian faith, not actively extolling it's virtues or following it herself, but still giving it publicity and social bandwidth. She does this because it hasn't inconvenienced her directly, and she's been able to remain, I assume, in her comfort zone. For the purposes of the analogy, think of it as going to work and giving your cold to everyone while cheerfully going about your business as normal.

A stupid virus, however, still attacks a carrier with minor secondary symptoms even if it can't truly take root. This causes them to to stay in bed rather than going out, or worse, develop antibodies (read: negative publicity) which can harm it in a grander context beyond merely the individual. This seems to me what pressuring her to convert would accomplish.

Shame we haven't been able to find a way to erase this virus from existence. It would be an achievement on Par with the discovery of the cure for cancer.

I want to paint my ship Periwinkle.
Gwen Ikiryo
Alexylva Paradox
#318 - 2015-10-27 15:01:34 UTC
Tyrel Toov wrote:
Shame we haven't been able to find a way to erase this virus from existence. It would be an achievement on Par with the discovery of the cure for cancer.


Please don't co-opt my metaphor and get fifty people going for my throat, thanks.
Lunarisse Aspenstar
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#319 - 2015-10-27 15:09:01 UTC
Lyn Farel wrote:
Also, I think that too many Amarr fail to think on the long run. If you are so sure that it will happen, then why are you desperately trying to rush it, grasping at straws, and flunking all of it in the process?


Samira Kernher wrote:
My "interpretation" is that it is the Destiny of Faith given to us by God to Reclaim all of His creations and cultivate the spirit of man.

We are all missionaries, because any one of our actions can inspire others to righteousness or to sin.


I assure you, the Society does take a very long view.

A seed once planted, by one's words or conduct and example, can lay dormant for centuries until the condition is right for it grow and to bear fruit.
Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#320 - 2015-10-27 15:59:39 UTC
That... is an interesting analogy Ms Ikiryo..

All in all, either through tranquil discussion and cultural exchange, or through forceful assimilating Reclaiming and slavery, exchange and mindset evolution is created on both sides.

Having also seen myself how the gallente deal with their own cultural imperialism, I think their culture understood long ago the most efficient mindset suited to the current international statuquo.

Seen that way, it is not so more a question of converting someone else to one's own culture, but to accept that conversion will happen both ways, as it is a natural aspect that can not be avoided.