These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
Previous page12
 

T3 Dessies in Small FW plex's
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Oreb Wing
Last Rites.
#21 - 2015-03-01 03:42:32 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
lets wait a bit and see if the player base can learn to counter them over the next few months rather than going to CCP to make a change that may not be needed



I agree that we should allow time for the release of the other faction D3's to be tested by the meta. After this testing phase, Rise should mose definitely stop trolling us by allowing these to stomp all over smalls.
Oreb Wing
Last Rites.
#22 - 2015-03-01 03:45:34 UTC
Lugburz wrote:
/me hides his daredevil



daredevil is more expensive than a D3 and has counters by ships in its own class.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#23 - 2015-03-01 04:28:01 UTC
Oreb Wing wrote:
Lugburz wrote:
/me hides his daredevil



daredevil is more expensive than a D3 and has counters by ships in its own class.



price is not a balancing factor and the D3s can also be countered by ships in its class so what is your point

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Kiryen O'Bannon
SUNDERING
Goonswarm Federation
#24 - 2015-03-01 04:30:29 UTC
Iain Cariaba wrote:
afkalt wrote:
Based on that logic, why bother with any gate limits then?

They are there for a reason, or they are not.

Because it still enforces that artificial balance you were talking about. Sure the d3s are powerful, but they're not as OP as you think. The fact that they fall easily to a small handful of t1 frigates is proof, of this.

Edit: actually, the svipul my corpmates killed last night was done by an enyo, a tristan, and a fed navy comet. All three ships easily allowed into a small site. They took it out while his buddy in a garmur was busy killing me.


Not that I really have an opinion one way or the other on this, but an Enyo is not a T 1 frigate, and while technically faction frigates are T1, they aren't normally what one thinks of when one says " T1 frigate".

Eternal Father, King of birth, /Who didst create the heaven and earth, /And bid the planets and the sun/ Their own appointed orbits run; /O hear us when we seek thy grace /For those who soar through outer space.
Oreb Wing
Last Rites.
#25 - 2015-03-01 04:37:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Oreb Wing
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Oreb Wing wrote:
Lugburz wrote:
/me hides his daredevil



daredevil is more expensive than a D3 and has counters by ships in its own class.



price is not a balancing factor and the D3s can also be countered by ships in its class so what is your point



Penalties and price are most definitely a contributing factor to *a ships* use and application.

As for countering D3's with an offensive plexing capable ship, give me some examples hot-shot.
Valkin Mordirc
#26 - 2015-03-01 09:10:57 UTC
Oreb Wing wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Oreb Wing wrote:
Lugburz wrote:
/me hides his daredevil



daredevil is more expensive than a D3 and has counters by ships in its own class.



price is not a balancing factor and the D3s can also be countered by ships in its class so what is your point



Penalties and price are most definitely a contributing factor to *a ships* use and application.

As for countering D3's with an offensive plexing capable ship, give me some examples hot-shot.



Price is not a balance factor. If ships were balanced on price then Titans would lolstomp everything in there path. Which they don't. A dread would blap everything cheaper then it. Which it does not.

So please tell me how price determines balances?

Also a Confessor has a weakness to neuts...soooo uh...you see a fessor on D-scan bring a ship that can use I dunno, Neuts?

Also your in major Alliance. You can always call for help. Bat-phoning is something.


And yes Lugh is a hot shot. Why do you bring it up?
#DeleteTheWeak
Catherine Laartii
Doomheim
#27 - 2015-03-01 10:18:36 UTC
+1 t3 cruisers can't fit in mediums, t3 dessies shouldn't fit in smalls.
Lug Muad'Dib
Funk'in Hole
#28 - 2015-03-01 11:23:19 UTC
Valkin Mordirc wrote:


Price is not a balance factor.



lol. In practice, price is the first balance factor. Why fly tristan instead of worm, condor instead of garmur ?
Valkin Mordirc
#29 - 2015-03-01 12:56:16 UTC
If I sell a Worm for 5 mil on the Market does it suddenly become worse then a Tristan?


"lol"
#DeleteTheWeak
Lugh Crow-Slave
#30 - 2015-03-01 13:04:22 UTC
Valkin Mordirc wrote:
If I sell a Worm for 5 mil on the Market does it suddenly become worse then a Tristan?


"lol"


better question if i sell a rookie ship to my alt for 120bill can i go on a slaughter spree

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Valkin Mordirc
#31 - 2015-03-01 13:07:21 UTC
Better yet take over the market and sell all ships for .01isk. Then Buy High from yourself.


Your invincible God.


Because price obviously is factor in how balance ships against eachother
#DeleteTheWeak
Arla Sarain
#32 - 2015-03-01 13:59:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Arla Sarain
Valkin Mordirc wrote:
If I sell a Worm for 5 mil on the Market does it suddenly become worse then a Tristan?


"lol"

No

Somebody will buy the worm for 5 mill and either resell it for 90mill
Or get a free powerful ship.


Price determines demand. People are willing to pay high price for powerful ships for obvious reasons. Because they are powerful.

Its not a matter of relativity. A Nomad is obviously not as powerful as a Worm.

If you weren't so retardedly pedantic you would actually let the context sink in and think a bit. Price is an indication of power. Whether putting 90mill into a ship gives it 9000 DPS or not is not the question.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#33 - 2015-03-01 14:01:35 UTC
Arla Sarain wrote:
Valkin Mordirc wrote:
If I sell a Worm for 5 mil on the Market does it suddenly become worse then a Tristan?


"lol"

No

Somebody will buy the worm for 5 mill and either resell it for 90mill
Or get a free powerful ship.


Price determines demand. People are willing to pay high price for powerful ships for obvious reasons. Because they are powerful.



yes but a ship is not balanced around price we decide the price not CCP

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Arla Sarain
#34 - 2015-03-01 14:04:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Arla Sarain
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Arla Sarain wrote:
Valkin Mordirc wrote:
If I sell a Worm for 5 mil on the Market does it suddenly become worse then a Tristan?


"lol"

No

Somebody will buy the worm for 5 mill and either resell it for 90mill
Or get a free powerful ship.


Price determines demand. People are willing to pay high price for powerful ships for obvious reasons. Because they are powerful.



yes but a ship is not balanced around price we decide the price not CCP

CCP predicted the price for D3s would settle in the 40mills.

How much of it did you as a player decided that price would be 40 mill? https://eve-central.com/home/quicklook.html?typeid=34317
less than 25% of your decision on the price mattered.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#35 - 2015-03-01 16:43:22 UTC
Arla Sarain wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Arla Sarain wrote:
Valkin Mordirc wrote:
If I sell a Worm for 5 mil on the Market does it suddenly become worse then a Tristan?


"lol"

No

Somebody will buy the worm for 5 mill and either resell it for 90mill
Or get a free powerful ship.


Price determines demand. People are willing to pay high price for powerful ships for obvious reasons. Because they are powerful.



yes but a ship is not balanced around price we decide the price not CCP

CCP predicted the price for D3s would settle in the 40mills.

How much of it did you as a player decided that price would be 40 mill? https://eve-central.com/home/quicklook.html?typeid=34317
less than 25% of your decision on the price mattered.


yes but they predicted that bast on the current prices of Sleeper salvage.


CCP does balance the effort it takes to build a ship but not the end price. if everyone up and went into WHs and started mass running all of the sites the cost of the mats would drop and following that the cost of the ships will drop but the effort to build one stays the same

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Oreb Wing
Last Rites.
#36 - 2015-03-01 16:53:56 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Arla Sarain wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Arla Sarain wrote:
Valkin Mordirc wrote:
If I sell a Worm for 5 mil on the Market does it suddenly become worse then a Tristan?


"lol"

No

Somebody will buy the worm for 5 mill and either resell it for 90mill
Or get a free powerful ship.


Price determines demand. People are willing to pay high price for powerful ships for obvious reasons. Because they are powerful.



yes but a ship is not balanced around price we decide the price not CCP

CCP predicted the price for D3s would settle in the 40mills.

How much of it did you as a player decided that price would be 40 mill? https://eve-central.com/home/quicklook.html?typeid=34317
less than 25% of your decision on the price mattered.


yes but they predicted that bast on the current prices of Sleeper salvage.


CCP does balance the effort it takes to build a ship but not the end price. if everyone up and went into WHs and started mass running all of the sites the cost of the mats would drop and following that the cost of the ships will drop but the effort to build one stays the same



Based on this reason, if people grind wormhole content to the point strategic cruisers fall below HAC prices, would this not make a difference in what people will fly, regardless of the skill penalty risk? Did I say price was the only determining factor of a ship's worth, demand, or utility? No. I said it plays an important role, one you cannot see, and also perhaps is responsible for your disagreement that this cruiser ehp D3 is at all good for the dynamic FW plexes bring to pvp in lowsec.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#37 - 2015-03-01 20:21:15 UTC
Oreb Wing wrote:



Based on this reason, if people grind wormhole content to the point strategic cruisers fall below HAC prices, would this not make a difference in what people will fly, regardless of the skill penalty risk? Did I say price was the only determining factor of a ship's worth, demand, or utility? No. I said it plays an important role, one you cannot see, and also perhaps is responsible for your disagreement that this cruiser ehp D3 is at all good for the dynamic FW plexes bring to pvp in lowsec.


For a lot of us the price of a ship doesn't matter much



if the ship is worth 45 or 245 most can afford to chose the one that will get the job done best and even some of the larger FW alliance have pretty good SRPs

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
God's Apples
Wilderness
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
#38 - 2015-03-02 03:56:32 UTC
T3 cruisers are no longer allowed in medium plexes because of how strong they are. T3 Dessies should be the same way with regards to small plexes.

"Hydra Reloaded are just jealous / butthurt on me / us because we can get tons of PVP action in empire while they aren't good enough to get that." - NightmareX
Previous page12