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[Scylla] Ishtars

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Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#341 - 2015-04-10 10:21:33 UTC
Ncc 1709 wrote:
the nerf hasn't changed anything.

Go back to 1 and start again



need more time to see the results. Until other compositions are defined and traiend in mass into the ishtar fleets will continue. Such changes take time.

Whent hey nerfed the hurricane, some whinners said that it was still overpowered because 2 weeks after the changes it was still the most used ship in pvp. Now.. a long time later.. they are as rare as a blue whale in a supermarket.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#342 - 2015-04-10 10:23:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Kagura Nikon
Iroquoiss Pliskin wrote:
Rivr Luzade wrote:
Iroquoiss Pliskin wrote:
Forget Ishtar for a second, look at the double Tracking + Optimal bonus on the Domi along with the damage bonus to all drone types. SmileBlink


This thread is about the Ishtar, not the Dominix.


They are the Ying and Yang of the sentry problem. Smile

Going by history, seeing as no one wants a moderate solution, the nerf bat will decimate both of these ships in the end. Blink




Well the dominix is still the most powerful battleship on most scenarios :)

The other battleships should be pushed to same level as the domi.


Sometimes I think ALL battleships should have 125 Bandwidth and 125 or MORE bay. Then you can nerf a bit the sentries.. and boost a bit the dominix base bonus. Voilá... you balance battleships a bit, you nerfed ishtars and carriers.. and you have not moved the dominix.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Atomeon
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#343 - 2015-04-10 21:59:15 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Then you can nerf a bit the sentries.. and boost a bit the dominix base bonus. Voilá... you balance battleships a bit, you nerfed ishtars and carriers.. and you have not moved the dominix.


They DID nerfed the sentries, Bouncers (the most used sentries) lost optimal 6km and got in on fall off.
Mario Putzo
#344 - 2015-04-11 00:27:42 UTC
The problem is the drones not the ship. Its not a fluke that CCP goes out and buffs drones, and suddenly we see 3 years of varying Drone only FOTM doctrines. Prophs, Gilas, Domis, Archons, Ishtars....what do they all have in common...Sentry Drones.
Bl1SkR1N
13th HOUR
#345 - 2015-04-14 21:51:59 UTC
Remove domies tracking bonus and 1-2high slots. Remove ishtars range bonus. Problem solved and you still got pretty good, all around ships :)
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#346 - 2015-04-14 22:43:51 UTC
all droneboats should have -3 slots.. and less bonuses too bring them back into line..

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Liam Inkuras
Furnace
Meta Reloaded
#347 - 2015-04-15 00:35:02 UTC
Harvey James wrote:
all droneboats should have -3 slots.. and less bonuses too bring them back into line..

Yeah and just make them completely combat incapable while we're at it, great suggestion

I wear my goggles at night.

Any spelling/grammatical errors come complimentary with my typing on a phone
Tiddle Jr
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#348 - 2015-04-15 00:51:44 UTC
Harvey James wrote:
all droneboats should have -3 slots.. and less bonuses too bring them back into line..


Wierd... Really

"The message is that there are known knowns. There are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say there are things that we now know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know" - CCP
Iroquoiss Pliskin
9B30FF Labs
#349 - 2015-04-15 08:35:04 UTC
Bl1SkR1N wrote:
Remove domies tracking bonus and Remove ishtars range bonus. Problem solved and you still got pretty good, all around ships :)


Yes. ( ͡~ ͜ʖ ͡°)

// [PvP Damage Done by Class (Scylla)] //

[Cruisers Online]
Xe'Cara'eos
A Big Enough Lever
#350 - 2015-04-15 09:30:59 UTC
2 issues with the ishtar as it stands:
~No1a - cruiser using battleship class weapons (this turns it into a drone version of the attack BC's with T2 resists, a bonus to MWD usage, and a smaller sig rad, better align, etc)
~No1b - usage of drones leaves plenty of highslots free for further DPS or RR, as the player wants it
~No1c - enough drone space for multiple waves of sentries - which reduces the destruictibilityof drones as a destructible source of DPS

~No2 - sentry alpha is too good - what if you staggered all sentry damage from a single ship so that it occured a few times each tic, rather than once every tic?
Quote:
let's say a garde has a RoF of once every 5s, with a damage of 200/volley (numbers pulled out of the air),
as things stand, 5 gardes will deal 1,000 dmg once every 5s, scaling up for drone assist to 11k perfect alpha, (iirc the drone assist changes correctly), and then it's staggered over 25 people as all the squad commanders sic their drones onto a target NEARLY simultaneously, resulting in 275k near-perfect alpha
if sentry dmg was staggered, 5 gardes would deal 200 dmg every second, the dps scales up before, but the alpha is now 1/5th of what it was previously (for all situations), thus making it less effective a fleet weapon than before

also if heavy drones kept their perfect alpha, and sentries lost theirs, it might give an incentive to use heavies more

For posting an idea into F&I: come up with idea, try and think how people could abuse this, try to fix your idea - loop the process until you can't see how it could be abused, then post to the forums to let us figure out how to abuse it..... If your idea can be abused, it [u]WILL[/u] be.
Bl1SkR1N
13th HOUR
#351 - 2015-04-27 08:38:08 UTC
Liam Inkuras wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
all droneboats should have -3 slots.. and less bonuses too bring them back into line..

Yeah and just make them completely combat incapable while we're at it, great suggestion


would still be better than where it is right now.
Baali Tekitsu
AQUILA INC
Verge of Collapse
#352 - 2015-04-27 10:08:30 UTC
Any ship with a projection, damage and application bonus will be overpowered and I have no idea why the ishtar/other drone boats still has all of them. Imagine the napoc having a damage bonus, the oracle a tracking bonus, Deimos a tracking bonus and the Muninn use a different weapon system. No matter how u turn it it will be oberpowered.

RATE LIKE SUBSCRIBE
Iroquoiss Pliskin
9B30FF Labs
#353 - 2015-04-27 11:25:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Iroquoiss Pliskin
That seems like common sense, right?

http://community.eveonline.com/news/patch-notes/patch-notes-for-odyssey-1.1 - Never Forget.

Quote:
ISHTAR:
Role Bonus: 50% reduction in MicroWarpdrive signature radius penalty.
Gallente Cruiser Bonuses:

7.5% bonus to Heavy Drone max velocity and tracking(was 5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage).
10% bonus to Drone hitpoints and damage.
Heavy Assault Cruiser Bonuses:

5 km bonus to Drone operation range per level.
7.5% bonus to Sentry Drone optimal range and tracking speed(was bonus to drone bay capacity).


Just look what had been replaced with these double bonuses, which are the growing cancer of Eve. But never mind that, we'll just splinter and cut the damage afterwards. A little.

I, three, would like a Zealot with an Optimal & Tracking rolled into one, on top of the RoF & Damage bonuses.

// [PvP Damage Done by Class (Scylla)] //

[Cruisers Online]
Phaade
LowKey Ops
Shadow Cartel
#354 - 2015-04-27 14:28:41 UTC
Iroquoiss Pliskin wrote:
That seems like common sense, right?

http://community.eveonline.com/news/patch-notes/patch-notes-for-odyssey-1.1 - Never Forget.

Quote:
ISHTAR:
Role Bonus: 50% reduction in MicroWarpdrive signature radius penalty.
Gallente Cruiser Bonuses:

7.5% bonus to Heavy Drone max velocity and tracking(was 5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage).
10% bonus to Drone hitpoints and damage.
Heavy Assault Cruiser Bonuses:

5 km bonus to Drone operation range per level.
7.5% bonus to Sentry Drone optimal range and tracking speed(was bonus to drone bay capacity).


Just look what had been replaced with these double bonuses, which are the growing cancer of Eve. But never mind that, we'll just splinter and cut the damage afterwards. A little.

I, three, would like a Zealot with an Optimal & Tracking rolled into one, on top of the RoF & Damage bonuses.


Don't forget to give it drones, too.
Phaade
LowKey Ops
Shadow Cartel
#355 - 2015-04-27 14:31:56 UTC
Liam Inkuras wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
all droneboats should have -3 slots.. and less bonuses too bring them back into line..

Yeah and just make them completely combat incapable while we're at it, great suggestion


The opinion of known exploiters is irrelevant.
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#356 - 2015-04-27 14:42:20 UTC
Tiddle Jr wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
all droneboats should have -3 slots.. and less bonuses too bring them back into line..


Wierd... Really


ofc.. droneboats dont need highs for weapons so they effectively get free slots..

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#357 - 2015-04-27 15:10:14 UTC
Harvey James wrote:
Tiddle Jr wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
all droneboats should have -3 slots.. and less bonuses too bring them back into line..


Wierd... Really


ofc.. droneboats dont need highs for weapons so they effectively get free slots..


No, the highs often see DLA, range is otherwise poor. Except the Ishtar, which doesn't even need those!!
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#358 - 2015-04-27 15:11:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Rivr Luzade
DLAs are high slot modules. After fitting DLAs, OTC or OTE, DDA, some tank and prop mod, you have next to no CPU left to fit something else.

And I still stand by my demand that the Ishtar should just lose the application bonuses (Tracking and Optimal) and keep damage bonuses as before the latest nerf.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#359 - 2015-04-27 15:17:13 UTC
They could simply have binned the drone range bonus and reduced CPU such that the thing actually had fitting trade offs. Want range? Lose DDAs. Or go full glass cannon and drop tank.
James Baboli
Warp to Pharmacy
#360 - 2015-04-27 15:23:17 UTC
Liam Inkuras wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
all droneboats should have -3 slots.. and less bonuses too bring them back into line..

Yeah and just make them completely combat incapable while we're at it, great suggestion

Scale it then. Drone frigs lose 1 of their like 2 high slots, t1 cruisers lose 2 slots, weighted heavily towards 2 highs, t2 cruisers and up lose 3, weighted towards highs again.

Talking more,

Flying crazier,

And drinking more

Making battleships worth the warp