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Blitzing L3s
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stoicfaux
#21 - 2015-02-27 22:14:17 UTC
Ion Kirst wrote:

Doing it that way you've added a lot of the human factor. I realize that even "my" way there is still a lot of finger movement. You've also could have added in any delay in EVE itself, that could occur. (waiting to get towed) You've also added in the speed of my computer as compared to yours. There are too many variables coming into play. I like mine better, it's more ship against ship. Not, me, my ship, my computer, and EVE, against you, your ship, your computer, and EVE.

At the time, my goal was to calculate "isk per hour" which meant including the docking and (the random) undocking delays, etc. The speed of the computer shouldn't matter too much (unless your computer has a really slow drive.)

Time in mission is key since the travel times can be extrapolated. However, extrapolation requires recording the number of jumps and the distance traveled for each jump.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Market McSelling Alt
Doomheim
#22 - 2015-02-27 23:17:46 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:
Ion Kirst wrote:

Doing it that way you've added a lot of the human factor. I realize that even "my" way there is still a lot of finger movement. You've also could have added in any delay in EVE itself, that could occur. (waiting to get towed) You've also added in the speed of my computer as compared to yours. There are too many variables coming into play. I like mine better, it's more ship against ship. Not, me, my ship, my computer, and EVE, against you, your ship, your computer, and EVE.

At the time, my goal was to calculate "isk per hour" which meant including the docking and (the random) undocking delays, etc. The speed of the computer shouldn't matter too much (unless your computer has a really slow drive.)

Time in mission is key since the travel times can be extrapolated. However, extrapolation requires recording the number of jumps and the distance traveled for each jump.




Also travel times are relative, 3 jumps that are all under 1AU a piece will be much faster than INSystem but 88AU away.

CCP Quant: Of all those who logon in Eve, 1.5% do Incursions, 13.8% PVP and 19.2% run Missions while 22.4% mine.

40.7% Join a fleet. The idea that Eve is a PVP game is false, the social fabric is in Missions and Mining.
Paranoid Loyd
#23 - 2015-02-27 23:22:26 UTC
Is there an echo in here? He just said that McAlt.

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
Market McSelling Alt
Doomheim
#24 - 2015-02-27 23:32:14 UTC
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Is there an echo in here? He just said that McAlt.



It can not be stated enough, Mission income is an ever fickle beast. Get bad missions, get missions many jumps away or some market manipulation of LP and your numbers change drastically.

CCP Quant: Of all those who logon in Eve, 1.5% do Incursions, 13.8% PVP and 19.2% run Missions while 22.4% mine.

40.7% Join a fleet. The idea that Eve is a PVP game is false, the social fabric is in Missions and Mining.
Paranoid Loyd
#25 - 2015-02-27 23:43:16 UTC
Once is enough if you have reading comprehension skills.

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
Ion Kirst
KIRSTONE ALLIANCE
#26 - 2015-02-28 00:11:29 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:
Ion Kirst wrote:

Doing it that way you've added a lot of the human factor. I realize that even "my" way there is still a lot of finger movement. You've also could have added in any delay in EVE itself, that could occur. (waiting to get towed) You've also added in the speed of my computer as compared to yours. There are too many variables coming into play. I like mine better, it's more ship against ship. Not, me, my ship, my computer, and EVE, against you, your ship, your computer, and EVE.

At the time, my goal was to calculate "isk per hour" which meant including the docking and (the random) undocking delays, etc. The speed of the computer shouldn't matter too much (unless your computer has a really slow drive.)

Time in mission is key since the travel times can be extrapolated. However, extrapolation requires recording the number of jumps and the distance traveled for each jump.



I understand.

Honestly, I respect what you have done. I do not want to have the numbers skewed. From the gitgo, my goal was to hopefully come close or match what you have done. (may even do better in some).

-Kirst

Always remember Tovil-Toba, and what was done there.
Ion Kirst
KIRSTONE ALLIANCE
#27 - 2015-03-01 17:07:35 UTC
Stoic,

I've been running a few missions, and looking over some of the travel times, and a question arose.

If there is an accel gate heading into the mission, do you count that as travel time or mission time? There are a few missions where this comes up. I know you said that once in the mission an accel time is counted as mission time, so what about before you're in the mission pocket and able to shoot NPCs?

It doesn't effect the over all time.

-Kirst

Always remember Tovil-Toba, and what was done there.
stoicfaux
#28 - 2015-03-01 18:10:26 UTC
Ion Kirst wrote:
Stoic,

I've been running a few missions, and looking over some of the travel times, and a question arose.

If there is an accel gate heading into the mission, do you count that as travel time or mission time? There are a few missions where this comes up. I know you said that once in the mission an accel time is counted as mission time, so what about before you're in the mission pocket and able to shoot NPCs?

It doesn't effect the over all time.

-Kirst

The initial acceleration gate counts as part of the mission time.

With the warp speed changes affecting acceleration gate travel as well, I can see a reason put track acceleration gates under travel time, but that's just too much micro-management. In theory, the travel time through an accel gate for a 2AU/s battleship versus an 8AU/s Tengu could be a (very rough) difference of 15 seconds. OTOH, the time difference between a 5AU/s Mach versus an 8AU/s Tengu is less than 3 seconds (not counting align time.)



Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Ion Kirst
KIRSTONE ALLIANCE
#29 - 2015-03-01 19:08:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Ion Kirst
Stoic,

Thanks.

Now some of the times I'm getting make more sense.

As I mentioned before, I am counting undocking, re-docking, and the time it takes to bring up the agents window to "complete mission". I've had some re-docking times vary between 12 and 18sec! I was hoping that you were not counting that time, and then wonder then why didn't you start the timer once you actually accepted the mission.

I think you will agree, undocking and re-docking, has nothing to do with either ships performance.

-Kirst


Edit: I did post some new times in the 2nd posting. More to come as they get offered.

Always remember Tovil-Toba, and what was done there.
stoicfaux
#30 - 2015-03-04 04:30:11 UTC
Ion Kirst wrote:

Tengu (L3 Blitzing, basic set-up)

Low:
4 x Federation MFS

This can get you ganked. Drop one of the Fed MFS for a Tech II. A 4 dps improvement isn't worth ~90M isk. Also might want to use the Supplemental Screening subsystem to discourage ganking as well.


Quote:
My Tengu hits 8.6AU/sec! (In EFT it shows 9.3, I don’t know where the discrepancy is.)

ws-610 implant


Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#31 - 2015-03-05 00:51:03 UTC
If most of your missions are in the one system it may be viable to have an alt docked at the agents station accepting the missions and fleeting up with them.

Of course in most cases it would make more sense to have the alt actually fly th emission with you.
Ion Kirst
KIRSTONE ALLIANCE
#32 - 2015-03-08 18:45:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Ion Kirst
I know it's taken a long time to get thru redoing these L3 blitzes. Even with 3 agents, I got a lot of the same missions over and over.
I also know no one has been sitting on the edge of their seats waiting for these results. I've almost redone all the missions that I posted in post #2.

Again, I laud Stoicfaux for compiling his spread sheet on his blitzes of L3s with a Mach. It was a tedious job. Blitzing L3s at a hectic pace is difficult to kept up. One slip of the finger can be seconds lost.

In waiting for specific missions to show up, I was turning down many missions that offered more rewards. So I got another Tengu, and fitted it differently to run those.

So from the results, I believe the Tengu did very, very well, (I have to say it) beating the Mach in 9/13 missions posted, and losing a couple by a second or so. I kept the set up the same for every mission, so with that EM hole, I did go a little into armor before warping out.

I've ran almost all of the missions a few times each, so none of the results are fluks. Some vary by a few seconds on travel time, and others on mission times. The times posted are actually not the best.

So in conclusion, the Mach is said to be able to make 90M+ per hour, and someone in a Tengu could also generate that amount, if they wanted to keep up that hectic pace. Someone in another Mach, or another strategic cruiser, might be able to beat Stoic's numbers too.

Some people may still want to say that the Mach is "King of L3s", but that crown sure has been tarnished.


-Kirst

Always remember Tovil-Toba, and what was done there.
stoicfaux
#33 - 2015-03-08 20:31:15 UTC
Interesting. I'm looking forward to seeing the new numbers.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
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