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Tilted Stargates
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Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#41 - 2011-12-03 04:20:50 UTC
War Kitten wrote:
Grimpak wrote:
Red Templar wrote:
Make stations orbit the planet. Dont give a f*** if its turned one way or another. But stations have to orbit planet, otherwise they would fall.
And to hell with bookmarks. And make its speed like 1km/s. That would reduce stupid dock/undock games and station camping.




and the servers would grind to a screeching halt while calculating all the station's orbits in the whole EVE.


that's why everything in a system is fixed at that place, so that the servers don't need to calculate the X,Y and Z position of every "static" in the solar system.

tbh I think you would need twice the server capacity for that.


It's a cool idea, but Grimpak's answer is why they won't do it.

That and Goonswarm would start bumping stations out of orbit and all over the solar systems. :)


True, and the non-realistic effects of thrust and speed in EVE don't lend themselves well either.

Planets orbit at all different speeds, but take earth for an example. A station would need a speed of 465 meters/second to stay in geosynchronous orbit. While this would not affect ships undocking, it would make ships attempting to dock or camp a fairly hilarious sight.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Igniskhin
Fortis Fortuna Adiuvatt
#42 - 2011-12-03 04:26:46 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
War Kitten wrote:
Grimpak wrote:
Red Templar wrote:
Make stations orbit the planet. Dont give a f*** if its turned one way or another. But stations have to orbit planet, otherwise they would fall.
And to hell with bookmarks. And make its speed like 1km/s. That would reduce stupid dock/undock games and station camping.




and the servers would grind to a screeching halt while calculating all the station's orbits in the whole EVE.


that's why everything in a system is fixed at that place, so that the servers don't need to calculate the X,Y and Z position of every "static" in the solar system.

tbh I think you would need twice the server capacity for that.


It's a cool idea, but Grimpak's answer is why they won't do it.

That and Goonswarm would start bumping stations out of orbit and all over the solar systems. :)


True, and the non-realistic effects of thrust and speed in EVE don't lend themselves well either.

Planets orbit at all different speeds, but take earth for an example. A station would need a speed of 465 meters/second to stay in geosynchronous orbit. While this would not affect ships undocking, it would make ships attempting to dock or camp a fairly hilarious sight.



456 m/s? freighters, hulks, and a plethora of other larger ships would never be able to keep up with it... that is amusing.
Obsidian Hawk
RONA Midgard Academy
#43 - 2011-12-03 04:50:19 UTC
Why to planets have to orbit in real time what about this.


Every week we have a 1.5 hour down time on monday and all the planets in the system shift. during that time. to new positions on the server mondays population is always the lowest and would be least effected by the extended down time. Also by use of this method server load is minimized and provides some unique opprotunities in the game. all it would do is really effect instant warps off of undock.

Why Can't I have a picture signature.

Also please support graphical immersion, bring back the art that brought people to EvE online originaly.
Leisen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#44 - 2011-12-03 05:40:29 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Planets orbit at all different speeds, but take earth for an example. A station would need a speed of 465 meters/second to stay in geosynchronous orbit. While this would not affect ships undocking, it would make ships attempting to dock or camp a fairly hilarious sight.


The required velocity for geosynchronous orbit changes with distance from the planet. Move the station farther, orbit slower...
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#45 - 2011-12-03 06:17:20 UTC
Zagdul wrote:
I think the orientation of anchored objects needs to be re-worked in general and when it's done, it should be done with the forethought that eventually orbiting solar systems would be planned. While I'd be awesome to have orbiting celestial bodies in space and to have star-bases and outposts to be more orientated with them, there was a post a long time ago stating that the sheer mathematics involved in developing this would be astounding.

While I'd love to see this happen someday, the resolution to the bookmarks issue would be that instead of a bookmark being a relationship of where your ship is in a solar system, you'd need to make it relative to the position of the nearest object in space. For example, an instant undock would be relative to the station, not to a X/Y axis of a grid in a solar system. Hopefully we're getting to the point in technology where supporting a more realistic environment is plausible in EVE.

The amount of variables to make much of these types of things possible in a video game are astounding when you begin to think of all the moving parts necessary to make it work.


These ideas made me full of happy.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
Selinate
#46 - 2011-12-03 06:19:32 UTC
First read subject as "Tittied Stargates"...

Warped to stargate, left disappointed...
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
#47 - 2011-12-03 07:42:44 UTC
On moving celestials and bookmarks:

All bookmarks need a celestial object defined to which they are in relation. If the object moves and rotates, the bookmark is still leading at the same relative position. Bookmarks in relation to the star are static.

On transition, the new bookmark system is introduced first, allowing players to adjust the object of relation from the default 'star' to the fitting, planet, station, stargate, customs office, POS or moon. Maybe even add a option for 'closest celestial' and have the server fill it in automatically. Then, after a grace period, the world starts turning.

Sovereignty and Population

New Mining Mechanics
Sphit Ker
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#48 - 2011-12-03 12:42:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Sphit Ker
Leisen wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Planets orbit at all different speeds, but take earth for an example. A station would need a speed of 465 meters/second to stay in geosynchronous orbit. While this would not affect ships undocking, it would make ships attempting to dock or camp a fairly hilarious sight.


The required velocity for geosynchronous orbit changes with distance from the planet. Move the station farther, orbit slower...



Lagrangian points?


I think the server overload argument is without merit. Did you see the level of hardware CCP is driving? We only have ~5,000 solar systems. Accounting for all the belts, moons, stations, gates and all the other things like POS and their mods and so on and on, I'd bet without hesitation it won't even account for a percent of it's capacity.

What we have is a static 3 dimensional system. X, Y and Z. That's fine since celestial's coordinates are static. Orbiting planets will require at least a 4 dimensional system: X, Y, Z and t (T is time.) so our bookmarks don't end up in the middle of deadspace after just a minute or two. What if there is now a moon where we dropped an off-grid BM last month?

We'll need different types of bookmarks. Static ones as plain XYZ would do just fine for the average safe spots we drop mid-warp. Lagrangian points for stations and geosynchronous points for the likes of custom offices and POS. etc.

Nevermind the fact our ships are often far slower than planets themselves. Planets really are hauling ass out there. Even the likes of snaked Dramiels in a C6 blackhole could be overtaken by moons. yup, that's right.

Lastly, the orbit of a planet that is 50+ AU away from it's star is measured in centuries. A lifetime of EVE means these planets will only move a few pixel on the solar system map... so what's the point already?

It's easy to see how things will go **** up. :) Perhaps we can just say **** this and leave well enough alone?

It knows what you think.
Shivus Tao
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#49 - 2011-12-03 12:54:14 UTC
Finarfin wrote:
I really dislike this "you mess up people bookmarks" argument. Things change constantly in an MMO and thats a good thing. Do these people also dislike the hybrid changes because they have to change their fits now?

Such a simple change like reorienting the station could possibly add so much immersion. I was undecided about the stargate realignment but after doing some trips through space I was amazed that it adds so much more immersion and breaks this rather stupid twodimensional plane feeling EvE always had.


The difference is to change a fit you need only swap out a few mods and click save.

To change bookmarks you need to fly to every system where you had said bookmarks and recreate them from scratch. For insta undocks from a few key stations this isn't bad. But to recreate perches off of every stargate in a region would take a day at the very least.

Orbiting celestial bodies are uneccesary because no one is ever in any position to enjoy them visually, we can't see the solar system in motion. All we see are little brackets on the screen. And unless a system could be devised that continually updates bookmarks based on orbit paths it would essentially eliminate any point of having bookmarks in the game.
Dr Karsun
Coffee Lovers Brewing Club
#50 - 2011-12-03 13:16:19 UTC
Change the orientation of the planets - Sure I'm all for, just as with gates, it'll make it actually seem very cool to see them not all in the same horizontal plane.

Make stations orbit planets - no not really. It's good that the planets as well as stations are stationary, at least for now. It'd require amazing changes, plus the relative speed problem would appear. So a station orbits the planet? Ok... But how fast? 100 m/s? Well then battleships will have problems catching up with it... 10m/s? That's not really an orbit.

Besides, ther's the problem of relative speed. It seems to us, when we see a discovery movie, that the space stations and space ships are stationary... But in reality they are travelling with the speed of earthers rotation speed... And even a damn screw that would be a stationary object in space (if that is even possible), the station could hit it with its awesome speed and get ripped apart.

In space there is almost never a full speed of zero. You've got relative speed... All the time, everywhere. Oh and btw, space ships should not have a maximum speed... They should be able to accelerate endlessly... you want that too?

And why the hell isn't this in F&I ?

"Have you had your morning coffee?" -> the Coffee Lovers Brewing Club is recruiting! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=363976#post363976
Zerakix
The White Mantle
#51 - 2011-12-03 13:36:16 UTC
Aerilis wrote:

CCP, please apply this treatment to stations as well! Make them oriented with the surface of the planet/moon they're orbiting :)


This would be awesome even if it's messes up peoples bookmarks the change would be pretty sweet looking graphics wise. Although if they jut rotated them on the same plane as the current undock path so the base of the station points at the planet it shouldn't mess things up to much.
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
#52 - 2011-12-03 13:52:37 UTC
It's actually more than just "random tilting".
The starfield you see on top of the background nebulae actually corresponds to the starmap (open it in 3D unflattened mode and compare), and the stargates align to the PROPER star to which they're actually linked.
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