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Sojourn

Author
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#141 - 2015-08-21 08:57:34 UTC
Ms Jenneth,

Of course I feel the imbalance whilst performing my duties. Many times I leave vessels intact and give a warning to desist the activities that have labeled them as criminals. If the pirates are not countered they will attack and mistreat the civilian population of the Empires and it is that which I seek to stop. I take no pleasure in it, I simply perform my duties as a Hisec capsuleer.

As for the sleepers I too share your discomfort here, we do not as yet know their reasons for attacking the Empire. As yet I have seen no evidence of them attacking civilian vessels or population centres. It would seem that they are probing for weakness within the Imperial forces and this concerns me. Why are they so focused on the Empire, what have they done to draw such a response?

Also given the nature of their use of clones (in some sense at least) to project their consciousness I find myself thinking we as capsuleers may be more like them than we would care to admit.
Nauplius
Hoi Andrapodistai
#142 - 2015-08-21 11:38:52 UTC
Lady Jenneth —

Let us put an end to all these pages and pages of existential angst. God wants certain people killed, and you should not in the slightest feel guilty about killing them. So let us drop the moral relativism and clarify just whom God wants killed —


  • Minmatar. All of them.
  • Any and all Pleasure Hub occupants.
  • People who work for the Minmatar Republic and its organs (such as the TLF; therefore, you may kill crew of TLF members without guilt).
  • People who work for corporations and alliances who have gone to war against Nauplius and his Temples to the Red God. That of course includes PY-RE, so be sure to kill your crew before beginning Sojurn: Sani Sabik as an act of penance.


That isn't a complete list, and there are some categories (say, Criminals) where there is debate over death versus other punishment, but frankly, those four bullet points give you so many people to kill (tens of trillions) that we here on the IGS ought not to have to read any more existential angst about killing when you can just kill that which there is no debate about killing. So get to it. Kill. Amen. Amarr Victor.
Lunarisse Aspenstar
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#143 - 2015-08-21 11:40:29 UTC
Nauplius wrote:
be sure to kill your crew before beginning Sojurn: Sani Sabik as an act of penance.



I am certain Ms. Jenneth would never do Sojourn: Sani Sabik.
Arrendis
TK Corp
#144 - 2015-08-21 14:06:34 UTC
Nauplius wrote:
PS: Bwhahahahaha.

Sinjin Mokk
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#145 - 2015-08-21 14:09:13 UTC
Nauplius wrote:
Lady Jenneth —

Let us put an end to all these pages and pages of existential angst. God wants certain people killed, and you should not in the slightest feel guilty about killing them. So let us drop the moral relativism and clarify just whom God wants killed —


  • Minmatar. All of them.
  • Any and all Pleasure Hub occupants.
  • People who work for the Minmatar Republic and its organs (such as the TLF; therefore, you may kill crew of TLF members without guilt).
  • People who work for corporations and alliances who have gone to war against Nauplius and his Temples to the Red God. That of course includes PY-RE, so be sure to kill your crew before beginning Sojurn: Sani Sabik as an act of penance.


That isn't a complete list, and there are some categories (say, Criminals) where there is debate over death versus other punishment, but frankly, those four bullet points give you so many people to kill (tens of trillions) that we here on the IGS ought not to have to read any more existential angst about killing when you can just kill that which there is no debate about killing. So get to it. Kill. Amen. Amarr Victor.



With each passing day, you become more and more of an abject failure in the eyes of your "Red God." I bet it must be difficult for you to even undock these days without getting shot at. And because you can't seem to satisfy the blood demands of your deranged mind, you're now trying to pawn the workload off on someone else?

That you would ask for help in killing Matari is a new level of failure for you.

That you would ask Aria Jenneth is a new level of stupidity.

But please, do continue. Your cries for help and relevance are endlessly amusing.

"Angels live, they never die, Apart from us, behind the sky. They're fading souls who've turned to ice, So ashen white in paradise."

Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#146 - 2015-08-21 15:38:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Aria Jenneth
Nauplius wrote:
Lady Jenneth —


Uh ... when did I acquire a noble title? Especially one you'd recognize?

Quote:
Let us put an end to all these pages and pages of existential angst. God wants certain people killed, and you should not in the slightest feel guilty about killing them. So let us drop the moral relativism and clarify just whom God wants killed —


  • Minmatar. All of them.
  • Any and all Pleasure Hub occupants.
  • People who work for the Minmatar Republic and its organs (such as the TLF; therefore, you may kill crew of TLF members without guilt).
  • People who work for corporations and alliances who have gone to war against Nauplius and his Temples to the Red God. That of course includes PY-RE, so be sure to kill your crew before beginning Sojurn: Sani Sabik as an act of penance.


Thank you, Mr. Nauplius, for providing a lovely example of a moral code that just about everybody agrees is horrendously wrong.

You make it really easy to point up one issue of belief in objective morality, which is that no matter which way you turn, you're probably going to be wrong, which is why most such beliefs seem to be bound up in faith. As yours are.

The difficulty for me in dealing with your own moral set is admitting that your own deeply held beliefs might be "right" for you. You're basically an inverted version of the orthodox Amarr, practicing hatred as a sacrament.

Except, I don't really think that's true. It might be for some Sani, but you....

You seem contrary to me. Contrary and stubborn. If the universe is calling on you to be a round peg, you're going to be a square one, and f*** the universe for trying to tell you otherwise.

You're right. Everybody else is wrong. Any evidence to the contrary just makes you double down.

Arrogance defined. Arrogance and stubborn pride. You cling to your hatreds like they were the last solid truth in a world of grays, and the damage you cause is so obvious that even your fellow Sani disown you.

If the Sani have found a single sharp sliver of truth, as my antecedent used to claim, it's not the one you're clinging to. That's just another illusion.

Poor, lost, miserable creature.
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#147 - 2015-10-23 05:12:46 UTC
Entry Twenty-Three: Reflected Dark

I've been spending more time around baseliners while visiting the Federation than I did before.

Maybe that was a mistake, previously. I'm such a capsuleer.

What I mean by that is that I identify as and with the capsuleer class. I'll deal with baseliners while baselining, but my associates are uniformly fellow "immortals." If I'm not wearing a mask of normalcy, I keep myself safely sequestered.

I don't fraternize with my crew. I speak as little as I can with baseliners who know what I am. I don't even surround myself with baseliner bodyguards the way my antecedent did.

It's not that I'm afraid. Maybe I'm ashamed? People have good reason to fear or hate us.

Staying away from baseline contact is another habit of my predecessor's that I seem to have picked up without noticing, like wearing black. That's maybe from a different source, but it's a habit I accepted as being "mine," a personally identifying quality, a proof that I exist (even if I don't really think I do). It's something I associated with being "me" from the first time I opened a drawer in my quarters, before I even learned my own name.

Little by little, I notice that little qualities of who she was appear, also, in me. The reasons seem different, but, are they, really?

It's easy to insist that I'm a different person. But how different am I? I hold myself apart from the rest of humanity, as she did, and I do that because I recognize myself as playing a disturbing, deadly role.

If I sequester myself for such a reason, how meaningful is it for me to insist that I'm human?
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#148 - 2015-10-23 08:05:35 UTC
People should feel shame only for what they did, not for what they are.

Although, I have to admit, that I indeed myself feel shame to what I am. First... because I am a 'ghost' of a once dead soldier, using her body and memories. I simply can't show my clone jacks to anyone, it makes me feel worse than being naked. And second... about my lineage, that I don't feel telling about.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Lord Kailethre
Tengoo Uninstallation Service
#149 - 2015-10-23 13:39:50 UTC
Please stop feeding the bad posters. It only encourages additional responses.
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#150 - 2015-10-23 14:10:14 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:
People should feel shame only for what they did, not for what they are.

Although, I have to admit, that I indeed myself feel shame to what I am. First... because I am a 'ghost' of a once dead soldier, using her body and memories. I simply can't show my clone jacks to anyone, it makes me feel worse than being naked. And second... about my lineage, that I don't feel telling about.


As you know, I have trouble buying into the idea that I'm a 'ghost.' I do follow the logic, but it doesn't really make sense to me. It would put me in the kind of strange and awful position of having been dead all my life.

Also, the consequences of thinking about it that way seem very sad. Ghosts don't traditionally have much power to change course or be something different. They're basically echoes. Can an echo change her voice? ... at best, she gets so distorted that the original meaning gets lost.

Certainly my antecedent seemed to feel that she was a vengeful, destructive spirit. A curse on her family. I don't feel that way at all, though.

Would you approach the world any differently, do you think, Ms. Kim, if you weren't a 'ghost'?
Skyweir Kinnison
Doomheim
#151 - 2015-10-23 14:49:44 UTC
Aria Jenneth wrote:


Also, the consequences of thinking about it that way seem very sad. Ghosts don't traditionally have much power to change course or be something different. They're basically echoes. Can an echo change her voice? ... at best, she gets so distorted that the original meaning gets lost.


In my tradition, ghosts are powerful because they are echoes: to be precise, memories, presences that represent an act, usually destructive. Such an apparition chides us, provokes a fearful response, refuses our attempts to forget or lie to ourselves. Of themselves, they do not change; but that very permanence, trapped in a location or endless repetition, changes us, the living. At best, then, I would say they force us to confront ourselves and our history. That must perforce, change us.

In some Matari cultures, the ghosts or spirits of the ancestors are far more proactive and often benign. They watch over their kin, advising them, guiding them, sometimes inspiring them. I know very little of the Caldari mystical beliefs, but I would have thought ancestral influence would be a strong belief system there too.

Ghosts are all around us. We live among them for better or ill. We ignore them at our peril.

Humanity has won its battle. Liberty now has a country.

Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#152 - 2015-10-23 15:05:56 UTC
In Wayiist tradition there is, indeed, a strong element of worship of Ancestral Spirits.

Most of the figures of Wayiist worship are fairly distant. The Maker barely acknowledges us. The Winds are titan, elemental, forces that are most definitely not human, even if they can be sympathetic from time to time to human failings.

Our Ancestors understand us and they act as guides and mediators in a universe filled with dangerous and powerful things that are ambivalent, at best, regarding the comfort and success of the individual Caldari.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Elmund Egivand
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#153 - 2015-10-23 16:12:16 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
In Wayiist tradition there is, indeed, a strong element of worship of Ancestral Spirits.

Most of the figures of Wayiist worship are fairly distant. The Maker barely acknowledges us. The Winds are titan, elemental, forces that are most definitely not human, even if they can be sympathetic from time to time to human failings.

Our Ancestors understand us and they act as guides and mediators in a universe filled with dangerous and powerful things that are ambivalent, at best, regarding the comfort and success of the individual Caldari.


It's really damn uncanny just how similar the Caldari and the Minmatar are, even down to the belief in ancestral spirits.

A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.

Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#154 - 2015-10-23 16:15:18 UTC
I was surprised to find the similarities when I discussed these things with a couple of Sebiestor shaman. Mind you, I was also surprised to discover the similarities between The Maker and God in Amarrian theology.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#155 - 2015-10-23 18:19:35 UTC
Actually, if we're talking spirit worlds, most Achur sects believe in a celestial realm that's not very different from being alive. Actually, that's one reason I have trouble taking the idea that we "really die" each time we're cloned seriously: a whole household of Aria Jenneths from various different points on my timeline is just a bizarre idea. Some of the other options (from other people's ideas of the afterlife) are just as strange.

Probably saddest of all is the idea that we're "soulless," without any spirits at all. Of course, I don't really believe in a separate, spiritual existence, but if there were such a thing, and our souls have already gone ...

... that would make me ...

No soul. No memory. Just a hollow husk full of old knowledge that kills healthier beings.

... something awful.

Something out of a horror story. I've never on my worst day felt like such a thing.
Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#156 - 2015-10-23 18:39:32 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
I was surprised to find the similarities when I discussed these things with a couple of Sebiestor shaman. Mind you, I was also surprised to discover the similarities between The Maker and God in Amarrian theology.


I... do feel that it is all but a surprise. Those similarities are here due to various factors, and are going to do nothing else but amplifying in the centuries to come.
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#157 - 2015-10-23 18:53:30 UTC
Aria Jenneth wrote:
Diana Kim wrote:
People should feel shame only for what they did, not for what they are.

Although, I have to admit, that I indeed myself feel shame to what I am. First... because I am a 'ghost' of a once dead soldier, using her body and memories. I simply can't show my clone jacks to anyone, it makes me feel worse than being naked. And second... about my lineage, that I don't feel telling about.


As you know, I have trouble buying into the idea that I'm a 'ghost.' I do follow the logic, but it doesn't really make sense to me. It would put me in the kind of strange and awful position of having been dead all my life.

Also, the consequences of thinking about it that way seem very sad. Ghosts don't traditionally have much power to change course or be something different. They're basically echoes. Can an echo change her voice? ... at best, she gets so distorted that the original meaning gets lost.

Certainly my antecedent seemed to feel that she was a vengeful, destructive spirit. A curse on her family. I don't feel that way at all, though.

Would you approach the world any differently, do you think, Ms. Kim, if you weren't a 'ghost'?

Hard to say, most of things? Probably no. But I wouldn't hide my back anymore, feeling myself an entity, taking a property of another human body. I don't know, actually. It is a bit complicated. It also makes me feel.. different from others, and I am, well, yes, not afraid, but feel shame. I know I shouldn't, but still...

I am afraid I have picked a wrong word. And I still have a lot of contradicting thoughts about the nature of clones. Maybe there is a ghost of my former clone and it haunts me, new owner of this body. Or maybe I am a ghost, who came into this world to bring mischief and vengeance on those who have angered the... well. You heard about these stories, when ghosts return to avenge for what happened to peoples while they were alive? Okay, I think I am going into wrong conversation direction now. But disregarding whomever we are, do these ghosts exist, do spirit exists, or what we think... we still use bodies and memories of dead people as our own.

As for echo, I think you might be right, since I am reflection of several clones who lived before me. I believe I obliged to them with my existence and I do what they should have done.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#158 - 2015-10-23 18:58:49 UTC
Aria Jenneth wrote:
Actually, if we're talking spirit worlds, most Achur sects believe in a celestial realm that's not very different from being alive. Actually, that's one reason I have trouble taking the idea that we "really die" each time we're cloned seriously: a whole household of Aria Jenneths from various different points on my timeline is just a bizarre idea. Some of the other options (from other people's ideas of the afterlife) are just as strange.

Probably saddest of all is the idea that we're "soulless," without any spirits at all. Of course, I don't really believe in a separate, spiritual existence, but if there were such a thing, and our souls have already gone ...

... that would make me ...

No soul. No memory. Just a hollow husk full of old knowledge that kills healthier beings.

... something awful.

Something out of a horror story. I've never on my worst day felt like such a thing.

I am probably an awful creature, a husk filled with anger and hatred... but at least I do kill beings that are way worse.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Anslo
Scope Works
#159 - 2015-10-23 19:25:25 UTC
So you finally offed all your clones? Sweet.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]

Anyanka Funk
Doomheim
#160 - 2015-10-23 21:04:45 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:
Aria Jenneth wrote:
Actually, if we're talking spirit worlds, most Achur sects believe in a celestial realm that's not very different from being alive. Actually, that's one reason I have trouble taking the idea that we "really die" each time we're cloned seriously: a whole household of Aria Jenneths from various different points on my timeline is just a bizarre idea. Some of the other options (from other people's ideas of the afterlife) are just as strange.

Probably saddest of all is the idea that we're "soulless," without any spirits at all. Of course, I don't really believe in a separate, spiritual existence, but if there were such a thing, and our souls have already gone ...

... that would make me ...

No soul. No memory. Just a hollow husk full of old knowledge that kills healthier beings.

... something awful.

Something out of a horror story. I've never on my worst day felt like such a thing.

I am probably an awful creature, a husk filled with anger and hatred... but at least I do kill beings that are way worse.

This is why I love you.