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What are the high sec rules for blasting someone?

Author
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#21 - 2015-02-26 04:05:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Vimsy Vortis
It's a perfectly reasonable activity. Quite a lot of the time suspect flagged people aren't actually expecting to be aggressed by anything particularly dangerous and you can kill them without too much difficult. Particularly if they jumped into highsec from lowsec. Shooting suspect logistics is fairly safe too, typically it doesn't shoot back very much, but the owner of it might get super mad.

However sometimes it's me who's suspect flagged and you don't know what neutral reps means until you've tried to shoot me while I'm suspect.

Because of things like that you need to make a judgement call when engaging suspects. You have to evaluate whether or not you think they're suspect for some reason other than because they want to be shot at, and if they're suspect because they want to be shot at do you have enough support to counter whatever ticks they have up their sleeves.
Joan Miles
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2015-02-26 17:13:33 UTC
It is a common and well known tactic of HighSec self proclaimed pirates and leet PvPers to warp in your mission area and steal or attack something you own. Their aim is turning "yellow" aka suspect and becoming a valid target for you. You will find out the hard way, or from reading several comments here, that this is a bait tactic. The want to be attacked so they can destroy your ship.

You will have zero chances of posing any threat to them. In any ship. Why? Well because you most likely are in a PvE mission running fit and they are in a PvP fit specifically chosen to counter your ship/fit. Unless you are using their tactic to bait them instead ofc.

Safer tactic is to warp out when they warp in. Pickup your drones and mtu or depot if you are close and leave. The loot/salvage from the mission is not worth your ship and implants. No need to panic. They can't attack you if you don't engage them first.

An exception to this case is suicide ganking. Not going to post a textwall for it though. Check the forums for this. Get lots of popcorn..
Cara Forelli
State War Academy
Caldari State
#23 - 2015-02-26 19:35:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Cara Forelli
Kick Axe Blackwing wrote:
Well I have identified a new career path - get a t2 and start blasting yellow jerks in high space.

That kind of mentality usually ends in tears. There's no problem with hunting these people, but remember, they are there to fight and are likely to have surprises up their sleeve (neutral reps, etc). Having "t2" isn't going to save you from dying to them.

A well fit t1 ship would do a much better job for this purpose than a poorly fit (or PVE fit) t2 ship. Never assume you will win because your "gear" is better. You need to be prepared for the situation at hand.

Just to give you an example, a while back I killed a mission running Dominix (battleship) in a bait Hawk (assault frigate). I knew the Dominix was bonused for light drones (a frigate's worst enemy) so I came prepared with a ship that could quickly dispatch drones while tanking high amounts of thermal damage (many mission runners use hobgoblins which do thermal damage).

Because I fit specifically for the engagement I easily won the fight. However, every fit has strengths and weaknesses. If the Dominix had been using acolytes (EM damage) instead of hobgoblins, I would not have been able to tank his DPS since I left a gaping hole in my EM resist. If he had fit a neut he could have shut off my tank enough to beat me easily. However, since he was PVE fit and didn't have a warp disruptor I could leave the fight at any time, whereas he was stuck there.

The point is, don't just go in guns blazing and assume you will win because you have spent more ISK on your ship. You won't. Instead do some research on PVP fits. Look at the losses of your targets to see how they fit their ships. Try to understand their strategy so you can form one of your own to counter it.

Want to talk? Join my channel in game: House Forelli

Titan's Lament

Orla- King-Griffin
#24 - 2015-02-26 20:39:02 UTC
Kick Axe Blackwing wrote:

Well I have identified a new career path - get a t2 and start blasting yellow jerks reasonable friendly people in high space.
Blink
That's the spirit

Ah shite...

Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#25 - 2015-02-27 04:32:55 UTC
Joan Miles wrote:
Safer tactic is to warp out when they warp in. Pickup your drones and mtu or depot if you are close and leave. The loot/salvage from the mission is not worth your ship and implants. No need to panic. They can't attack you if you don't engage them first.


Firstly nobody fits to specifically counter whatever random mission boat they just scanned out. If they intend to engage in the ship they're currently in it will be come generic thing that they expect to be able to deal with most mission boats (which is basically any PVP fit ship bigger than a frigate), if they intend to swap with an orca they'll be in the least threatening thing they can fly.

Secondly the "safe" option is universally the not-fun option, because the "safe" option almost always consists of "Run away and hide and take no risk or ever do anything interesting whatsoever"

If you actually want to have fun playing the game, vice endlessly grinding PVE and bolting like a deer at the first sign of any conflict you should batphone your buddies, dock your PVE ship up and murder the suspect.

I can't even begin to fathom what runs through to minds of people who in a role playing game decide they want to role play an immortal space captain who runs away from everything and isn't interested in advanture.
Joan Miles
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2015-02-27 16:59:15 UTC
Vimsy Vortis wrote:

If you actually want to have fun playing the game, vice endlessly grinding PVE and bolting like a deer at the first sign of any conflict you should batphone your buddies, dock your PVE ship up and murder the suspect.

I can't even begin to fathom what runs through to minds of people who in a role playing game decide they want to role play an immortal space captain who runs away from everything and isn't interested in advantage.


Even if you are a high sec pirate trying to say "Hey don't run away I'm here to bait you" , you are correct. People should learn to PvP since its a PvP game that gets really boring when played as solo PvE. However the OP is talking about lvl2 missions asking about rules. So he doesn't yet have any way to apply what you speak of, because he simply doesn't know how things work around here. And we know very well that many rules and mechanics in EVE are bendy enough for people that have a better grasp of them to use them in their favor.

So to the OP : Yes Vimsy is right. But to do that you need at least some solo experience and skills or some friends / Corpmates or both. Don't rush yourself in anything. Learn and play they way you want. It's a game. And keep in mind that in EVE you can trust no-one.
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#27 - 2015-02-28 03:25:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Donnachadh
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
Secondly the "safe" option is universally the not-fun option, because the "safe" option almost always consists of "Run away and hide and take no risk or ever do anything interesting whatsoever"

If you actually want to have fun playing the game, vice endlessly grinding PVE and bolting like a deer at the first sign of any conflict you should batphone your buddies, dock your PVE ship up and murder the suspect.

I can't even begin to fathom what runs through to minds of people who in a role playing game decide they want to role play an immortal space captain who runs away from everything and isn't interested in advanture.

Most missions occur between 1 and 4 jumps from the system the agent is located in, and most mission runners leave their collection of ships in the same station or system as the agent. Once the mission runner warps out of the pocket the PvP player WILL draw instant agro from whatever NPC were shooting the mission runner. Do you really think that these PvP players are going to sit in the pocket taking damage from the NPC and wait while the mission runner goes and reships, especially when they have no idea if they will come back at all?

Basically all oif this quoted above is all your opinion and as such it has some value, there are others that would disagree with you. I have several R/L friends that have determined that there is to much risk in a lvl 4 mission, lvl 3's is about as tough as they are willing to chance. And don't even try to get them into a WH, low sec or a venture into nul to explore they simply log off and that is the end.

You see the evaluation of risk and what is fun in this game is highly subjective, what you find boring others find stimulating and enjoyable. I keep wondering why you PvP oriented players have trouble understanding that? IN real life does everyone enjoy american style football? does everyone enjoy ice hockey? does everyone enjoy testing their limits driving a 200mph race car or competing in downhill skiing? I really do not have to aks because the answer is no we all have things that we enjoy that others find to scary or dangerous to even try. Well EvE is exactly the same we all have aspects of this game that we enjoy and we really do not care what you think, all we care about is that you enjoy what you want and you leave us to enjoy what we want and stop trying to push us into something we want no part of.
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#28 - 2015-02-28 04:30:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Vimsy Vortis
Donnachadh wrote:
Do you really think that these PvP players are going to sit in the pocket taking damage from the NPC and wait while the mission runner goes and reships, especially when they have no idea if they will come back at all?

Yes, because I have literally done that, because people routinely reject missions that take them more than one jump from their hub and because when scanning out mission runners you tend to scan out the same individual multiple times and you're more likely to get an engagement if you appear on multiple occasions because it gives people an opportunity to call for support or call you out in local and invoking a white knight response. Plus a suspect timer is 15 minutes long, so unless you have a good reason to let it run out he'll probably still be in space flashing himself at someone else.

In fact when someone warps out typically what you do is send your neutral scanner to where they warped to in order to see if they're coming back in a PVP ship, which I'd say about 10% of people do, you warp you main out and then warp back to the acceleration gate until you see him undock so you're not being engaged by NPC and have some idea about what is about to happen.

"He'll probably be gone so there's no point trying" is just a rationalization to appease the cognitive dissonance experienced by people who believe themselves to be space badasses but are actually enormously reluctant to engage in PVP activities.

Of course there are those people who are utterly terrified of fictional spaceship violence for some inexplicable reason and they're never going to shoot anybody and whatever they're free to do that if they really want to.

What upsets me is when people tell newbies who might actually like PVP that they should never ever do it because the evil scary bad highsec PVP instigators are either invincible (which is never true) or will run away if you even think about shooting back (which is rarely true *cough* marmite *cough*). That crap is totally false and convinces people to not even try things that they might otherwise have had enjoyed and been successful at.
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#29 - 2015-02-28 14:14:20 UTC
Joan Miles wrote:
It is a common and well known tactic of HighSec self proclaimed pirates and leet PvPers to warp in your mission area and steal or attack something you own. Their aim is turning "yellow" aka suspect and becoming a valid target for you. You will find out the hard way, or from reading several comments here, that this is a bait tactic. The want to be attacked so they can destroy your ship.

You will have zero chances of posing any threat to them. In any ship. Why? Well because you most likely are in a PvE mission running fit and they are in a PvP fit specifically chosen to counter your ship/fit. Unless you are using their tactic to bait them instead ofc.

Safer tactic is to warp out when they warp in. Pickup your drones and mtu or depot if you are close and leave. The loot/salvage from the mission is not worth your ship and implants. No need to panic. They can't attack you if you don't engage them first.

An exception to this case is suicide ganking. Not going to post a textwall for it though. Check the forums for this. Get lots of popcorn..


Or simply, ignore them.


There is NO reason to run. They cant initiate the combat unless they are willing to suicide on you, so just ignore them *helps to have a good overview to prevent accidents* and they quickly will grow bored.



Or have friends on standby in fleet in PvP ships. And the moment he becomes suspect have them warp in.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club

J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#30 - 2015-02-28 14:18:51 UTC
Joan Miles wrote:
Vimsy Vortis wrote:

If you actually want to have fun playing the game, vice endlessly grinding PVE and bolting like a deer at the first sign of any conflict you should batphone your buddies, dock your PVE ship up and murder the suspect.

I can't even begin to fathom what runs through to minds of people who in a role playing game decide they want to role play an immortal space captain who runs away from everything and isn't interested in advantage.


Even if you are a high sec pirate trying to say "Hey don't run away I'm here to bait you" , you are correct. People should learn to PvP since its a PvP game that gets really boring when played as solo PvE. However the OP is talking about lvl2 missions asking about rules. So he doesn't yet have any way to apply what you speak of, because he simply doesn't know how things work around here. And we know very well that many rules and mechanics in EVE are bendy enough for people that have a better grasp of them to use them in their favor.

So to the OP : Yes Vimsy is right. But to do that you need at least some solo experience and skills or some friends / Corpmates or both. Don't rush yourself in anything. Learn and play they way you want. It's a game. And keep in mind that in EVE you can trust no-one.


A new player can do exactly what Vimsy said....

Get friends (it is a multiplayer game after all) and kill the suspect together.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club

Bastion Arzi
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#31 - 2015-02-28 15:25:21 UTC
Do u mission in the forge or near jita? If your not too far away I will help you kill this guy if u want.
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