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What rigs for Golem?

Author
chaosgrimm
Synth Tech
#21 - 2015-03-01 12:07:41 UTC
Donnachadh wrote:

Curious, I have never experienced any of these target painter issues. The target painters have always finished their cycle and shut off so they are always waiting patiently for the launchers to do the same.

Maybe I misunderstand. The way I understand it is that you are doing something like:
Macro 1 is the same as activating launcher 1 and target painter 1
Macro 2 is the same as activating launcher 2 and target painter 2
Macro 3 is the same as activating launcher 3 and target painter 3
Macro 4 is the same as activating launcher 4 and target painter 4

Granted, I dont know how many TPs you are using, but this is my interpretation more or less. I am also assuming that you are only activating and deactivating your weapons and target painters via this macros, as not using solely using them would mean you are putting in some more micro managing effort.

If a volley will kill a rat, and that volley's flight time is greater than the remaining cd of the tp, or the tp's remaining cooldown is greater than the launcher's remaining cooldown, you stand to take an otherwise avoidable dps loss. For example pulling easy to use figures:
Say your target requires you to activate all 4 macros to destroy it.
Say your launcher cycle time is 8 seconds and your TP cycle time is 5 seconds.
If your missile flight time is greater than 5 seconds, the TP will start a second cycle. so when your missiles are ready to fire, your TPs will still be on cooldown. Of course, you can run into other issues as well if the flight time is greater than the launcher cycle time, or if a target would require more painters than launchers.

Donnachadh wrote:

The combination damage output nature of all turret based weapons means that no matter what ammo or crystals you are using a portion of your damage is being absorbed by the NPC's strongest resists. These factors can and often do allow a missile ship to complete missions faster than a turret based ship.

I have the skills to pilot and use all marauders. This has not been my experience, but it could be that I dont run missiles boats very well. Concerning worlds collide, I was looking at it more from the standpoint that the turret ship gets to pick the majority of the rats that it faces, and that it isnt worth the full clear. Even on a full clear though... I just dont see the Golem pushing cleartimes that are able to make up for missile overkill and other waste. There is a good way to settle this though.

Tell ya what, let's test it. Make an unedited video of worlds collide (angel/sansha). Kill, loot, and salvage everything. If you find this agreeable, i'll do the same.
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2015-03-01 12:51:59 UTC
"nor will you try to create or use any third party add-ons, extras or tools for the game."
chaosgrimm
Synth Tech
#23 - 2015-03-02 14:30:57 UTC  |  Edited by: chaosgrimm
I took the liberty of moving your response here as it was posted in the wrong thread ("Ship for lvl 4 missions"):

Donnachadh wrote:

Gents the phrase whatever applies here.
I state things that I have experienced and I clearly label them as such.
You state things as if they were scientifically proven facts, which they are not,, they are simply your experiences.

You do realize you've been making claims in this thread as well, and that we could confirm which experiences are closest to reality... but when the suggestion is made to actually test the experiences against each other.... you back down... You're willing to argue and argue about how x is better than y, but are unwilling to test it in a scenario that could show you are wrong.

I'd post some stuff showing the golem vs other marauder stuff myself to show you you're incorrect in the topics we've discussed, but I would much rather you post for the side you're advocating so that you cannot claim that I did not pilot the golem properly.

Donnachadh wrote:

As to the request for a mission video that will not be happening.

This is my surprised face: Lol

Donnachadh wrote:

1 because I do not have the desire to do so, people will asses what I say and act on it according to their interpretation of it's value and how it sets against their own experiences. If it works for them that is great, if they read it and think it is a pile of crap well that's OK with me as well.

But in our discussion, we arent talking about varying interpretations of value are we? we have been strictly talking about things like efficiency and clear speed.

We could compare using those metrics and alleviate your concerns by setting requirements beforehand like: Do a video of mission X. Start time is when the undock button is click and end time is when the mission is turned in an the ship is redocked. LP is worth Y. Loot/salvage worth is gauged by Z. Take Loot/Salvage + LP + bounty and divide by the time it took to complete the mission.

Donnachadh wrote:

2 since there are 5 different flavors of worlds collide some of them I have run once in 5 years who knows when or if I will ever get that one again.

I am uncertain regarding the federation version but for the rest... while the chance of getting world collide out of the pool is random, the variation is not. Angel/Sansha can be found running missions for minmatar. Just hop on the test server and into a fast ship with your shiny mods. Go from minmatar agent to agent or ruin your standings til you get it. then just buy a seeded golem and do it.

Furthermore, if you truely believed that some of these mission were so rare they would only appear once in five years... doesnt that make your unproven claim of the golem's performance in these missions moot?
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#24 - 2015-03-03 04:46:21 UTC
Actually the painters are group on one and the launchers on another. While in game they are separate for the what if, that so far has never happened.

chaosgrimm wrote:
Granted, I dont know how many TPs you are using, but this is my interpretation more or less. I am also assuming that you are only activating and deactivating your weapons and target painters via this macros, as not using solely using them would mean you are putting in some more micro managing effort.

Again in almost 4 years of flying the CNR, Rattle and Golem I have never had ANY issues with the painters. In all of these ships and in all of the missions over all of those years the painters have ALWAYS shut down before the launchers so I have never had to wait for a painter, not once, not ever. Call it just plain old stupid dumb luck if you want but that is the truth.

Even if the painters were delayed it still does not matter and there is no reason to ever hold you launchers for the painters to finish. As long as the painters are activated BEFORE the missiles hit the target that is all that matters, and yes that means even if they are only activate 1 server tick before the missiles hit. WHy? because the calculations are done at the moment of impact not before.

Tsukino Stareine wrote:
"nor will you try to create or use any third party add-ons, extras or tools for the game."

Ah section 21. Well since I am not using any software of any kind there can be no interference with the client.
Since there is no software there are no 3rd party add on to the game.
Since the keyboard / mouse send the stored information at the exact same rate that it was recorded there is no timing advantage to be gained.
And on top of all that I am not doing anything that cannot be done in game simply by stacking your modules. The sole exception to this might be linking the painters and launchers since I have not tried to do that in game yet, but I will the next time I get to log in at the end of mu current trip.
Last I suspect that if CCP started to ban everyone that used a gaming mouse or keyboard with macro functionality I suspect they would probably have to ban about 2/3rds of all the players.
chaosgrimm
Synth Tech
#25 - 2015-03-03 12:50:28 UTC  |  Edited by: chaosgrimm
@ Donnachadh, I hope you might understand why I was thinking the way I was. Here is a quick list of things you've said about your macros:
Donnachadh wrote:

Group your painters together with your weapons and problem solved.
...
If they are grouped you press one button on your mouse or keyboard and you get missiles AND target painters working all at the same time. Coincidentally this is exactly the same number of button presses it would take with turrets.
...
Actually the painters are group on one and the launchers on another.


but on to the actual reply:
Donnachadh wrote:
Actually the painters are group on one and the launchers on another. While in game they are separate for the what if, that so far has never happened.

Again in almost 4 years of flying the CNR, Rattle and Golem I have never had ANY issues with the painters. In all of these ships and in all of the missions over all of those years the painters have ALWAYS shut down before the launchers so I have never had to wait for a painter, not once, not ever. Call it just plain old stupid dumb luck if you want but that is the truth.

Even if the painters were delayed it still does not matter and there is no reason to ever hold you launchers for the painters to finish. As long as the painters are activated BEFORE the missiles hit the target that is all that matters, and yes that means even if they are only activate 1 server tick before the missiles hit. WHy? because the calculations are done at the moment of impact not before.

I do believe that you arent having issues with having the TP effect on your target by the time the missiles hit with the clarification on the setup you've described.

However, it's pretty clear at this point that you've lost every argument/dispute with my initial points. Having all of your weapons group is causing you more issues than the previous description. I dont think you realize how much dps you're actually loosing by keeping your weapons grouped lol, and thats before considering damage application. Not to mention.... If you're activating your TPs on every sub battleship target... it is requiring more micro management than TCs, which was the original argument. You're getting the worst of both worlds in this setup, dps loss from grouping your weapons + more micromanaging.

Donnachadh wrote:

I am not doing anything that cannot be done in game simply by stacking your modules.

TPs cant be grouped in game.

TBH though i dont think your macros are violations. I dont use them to play eve, but my understanding is that so long as you're required to press button(s) in a given instance of time, the number of buttons that are required to be pressed dont particularly matter.

Timing matters though. Ex, if you locked 3 wrecks, then made a macro that did something like:
* activates tractor 1 on wreck 1
* target changes to wreck 2
* activates tractor 2 on wreck 2
* target changes to wreck 3
* activates tractor 3 on wreck 3

My guess is that you'd be in violation for something like that.
stoicfaux
#26 - 2015-03-04 04:09:48 UTC
As someone who used to run a 4 TP Golem, managing the TPs isn't a big deal. The 5 second TP cycle versus the 8 second cruise launchers is much less of a problem then dealing with the "lag" that launchers experience when deactivating. (5 second TPs are a godsend compared to the old 10s cycle times.)

You can minimize TP juggling by remembering a few simple rules, 1-2 TPs against a battleship (2 if Angel or if in TP falloff), two against big/slow cruisers, and 3-4 against elite cruisers. I have a spreadsheet or three somewhere, but I can't be bothered to dig them out and convert them to googledocs right now (there are size limits to deal with.) Plus, missile have travel time, so you can normally slap TPs on a target while your missiles are in flight whenever the 5s versus 8 seconds (plus lag) doesn't line up.


Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.

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