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The bane of the "One Medium Slot" ship
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Grog Drinker
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#61 - 2011-12-07 14:00:37 UTC
Jojo Jackson wrote:
PS: and btw. NOT every ship in EVE must be PvP able! Just learn to except, that some are made for PvE ;).
Not? Well, why the hell aren't mining barks able to fit propper tanks and ... see my sig damit!


Mining barges are industrial ships.... AF's and destroyers are indeed designed for pvp. Name one other AF that isn't regularly seen in PVP...
Duchess Starbuckington
Doomheim
#62 - 2011-12-07 14:02:38 UTC
The Enyo?
... Which is still better than the Retribution.
Grog Drinker
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#63 - 2011-12-07 14:08:15 UTC
Duchess Starbuckington wrote:
The Enyo?
... Which is still better than the Retribution.


I've seen a bunch of enyos around recently.... seems someone decided to buff them and make them viable ships...
Duchess Starbuckington
Doomheim
#64 - 2011-12-07 14:09:02 UTC
They were always workable, just not quite as good all-round as the Ishkur. But yeah the hybrid buff will have helped a lot there.
Duchess Starbuckington
Doomheim
#65 - 2011-12-09 13:33:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Duchess Starbuckington
Bumpage, fix the 1-mid lolships please.

In the case of the Retribution, the way I see it this is doable in 2 ways:
1 - Give it a mid. Obvious really
Or
2 - Buff the DPS output, so it actually does enough to be worth the lack of tackle.
Khrage
#66 - 2011-12-09 15:27:35 UTC
Duchess Starbuckington wrote:
2 - Buff the DPS output, so it actually does enough to be worth the lack of tackle.


this.
Takeshi Yamato
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#67 - 2011-12-09 15:35:36 UTC
Duchess Starbuckington wrote:
Bumpage, fix the 1-mid lolships please.

In the case of the Retribution, the way I see it this is doable in 2 ways:
1 - Give it a mid. Obvious really
Or
2 - Buff the DPS output, so it actually does enough to be worth the lack of tackle.


Well put.
Ruah Piskonit
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#68 - 2011-12-09 22:39:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Ruah Piskonit
Duchess Starbuckington wrote:
Quote:
to have a point on each ship in a fleet is a waste of Midslot.


No, to have a frigate without a point is a waste of a ship.
(With the obvious exception of the Griffin/Kitsune)

If you're in a frigate, and you don't have a point, frankly you need a damn good reason - and the Retribution doesn't have one. The DPS it puts out isn't that impressive compared to other AFs.


Its not just the dps, its that dps at 20km. . .and with a beefy tank.

Retri is fine, coer is fine too.

although yes, the 4th bonus should be dps
Bamfordi
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#69 - 2011-12-09 23:31:15 UTC
Eve is an mmo and working in a fleet is what most if not all pvp ships are driven toward. And the arguement about an FC 'laughing you out of fleet' when you have no point is nonesense. Since all (with the exception of this Blink other ships generally fit points and in fleet fight's you're either facing a worse, generally smaller, fleet than you or you're running away. Only an idiot would turn away this nice little ship.

If you really want to solo get a slicer, same skills needed not that much more expensive, and has midslots.
Pryvate Pile
Doomheim
#70 - 2011-12-09 23:35:03 UTC
Bamfordi wrote:
Amarr is a fleet race and working in a fleet is what most if not all amarr pvp ships are driven toward.


Fixed that for you.
Zircon Dasher
#71 - 2011-12-10 00:11:56 UTC
Since the complaint is that all other ships except coercer and retri can fit a prop mod and ewar, maybe we should just nerf some other ships so that they wont be lonely.

I vote the Abby, Mach, Cane, Pest need to have 1 mid slot each. Give them 1 low slot to compensate. Lol

Nerfing High-sec is never the answer. It is the question. The answer is 'YES'.
Duchess Starbuckington
Doomheim
#72 - 2011-12-10 01:47:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Duchess Starbuckington
Quote:
Its not just the dps, its that dps at 20km. . .and with a beefy tank.


So let's get this straight, according to you, the Retribution's role is to... do utterly mediocre damage at 20km range. Right.
I should probably point out here as you seem a bit clueless: the Retribution's DPS is only even competitive at point blank range, once you start moving out further it only gets worse.

Oh and to the argument about the tank:

Ok, here I am, being attacked by a number of frigates. Who do I target?
- The Enyos or whatever, that are currently hitting very hard and holding me in place
- The interceptors, who are hitting less hard but have lower tank and are instrumental in holding me in place
- The EWAR frigates, which are screwing with me in too many ways to count
- ... The Retribution, sitting around at 20km doing meh damage with a lot of EHP and doing nothing at all to stop me escaping.

It could be argued that the Retribution is the tankiest AF not by virtue of EHP, but by not being worth shooting at in the first place.

Quote:
Retri is fine, coer is fine too.

And your supporting evidence for this is - where?

Quote:
Only an idiot would turn away this nice little ship.

No, only an idiot who's utterly pidgeon-holed themselves into laser frigates (or really, really doesn't care about their performance) would fly it.

Let me put it this way:

Hi there. I'm a Wolf. I'd also like you to meet my friends: Enyo, Taranis, Ishkur, Comet and Harpy.
What do we have in common?
We all do better DPS than the Retribution, and can still mount tackle.
My friends Vengeance, Hawk and Jaguar don't do quite as much paper DPS but are a hell of a lot better at applying it.
And can all mount tackle.

When all these ships exist that can do the same thing better and more (and don't take more than what, 2 weeks tops to cross train for?) then why fly a retri?

Another big question: if a given pilot is so heavily skilled into Amarr frigates at the expense of others, then why put them in a Retribution when they could be so much more useful in an interceptor or sentinel? It'd free up another pilot in the gang to fly a better DPS ship (see list above ^) for starters.
Duchess Starbuckington
Doomheim
#73 - 2011-12-11 00:49:22 UTC
Retribution still sucks. Bump.
m0cking bird
Doomheim
#74 - 2011-12-11 01:13:25 UTC
Ruah Piskonit wrote:
Duchess Starbuckington wrote:
Quote:
to have a point on each ship in a fleet is a waste of Midslot.


No, to have a frigate without a point is a waste of a ship.
(With the obvious exception of the Griffin/Kitsune)

If you're in a frigate, and you don't have a point, frankly you need a damn good reason - and the Retribution doesn't have one. The DPS it puts out isn't that impressive compared to other AFs.


Its not just the dps, its that dps at 20km. . .and with a beefy tank.

Retri is fine, coer is fine too.

although yes, the 4th bonus should be dps



Agreed. Coercer even more so now.
Duchess Starbuckington
Doomheim
#75 - 2011-12-11 20:48:45 UTC
Hmm, just checked and the Retri is still broken. Odd.
Dorian Tormak
RBON United
#76 - 2011-12-11 21:32:29 UTC
I agree with Mr. Starbucks, the Retribution is a piece of ****.

You can use it, and do some cool things with it, but it's still gonna be a piece of ****...

... Unless it gets a second mid-slot.

Do that, and it will be very competitive, I'd bet. I can picture lots of Afterburner-fit Wolfs Jaguars and Ishkurs getting smashed apart by long range MWD-fit Retris.

Some day, some how, some way, CCP needs to slap a second mid-slot onto this ship. Plain and simple.

Holy Satanic Christ! This is a Goddamn Signature!
Duchess Starbuckington
Doomheim
#77 - 2011-12-11 22:01:25 UTC
Quote:
Some day, some how, some way, CCP needs to slap a second mid-slot onto this ship. Plain and simple.

That or give it the DPS buff it needs to be worth of the title "frigate damage dealer", but I'd certainly prefer the second mid.