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Let me tell you why people are killing highsec miners. A manifesto.

First post
Author
Marcus Aurelijus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#81 - 2011-12-02 06:48:59 UTC
dribble
Ris Dnalor
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#82 - 2011-12-02 07:00:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Ris Dnalor
/emote grins @ OP



to poster directly above

Quote:
dribble
noun
Definition of DRIBBLE
1: a tiny or insignificant bit or quantity
2: a small trickling stream or flow
3: an act, instance, or manner of dribbling a ball or puck


Blink

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=118961

EvE = Everybody Vs. Everybody

  • Qolde
Jinli mei
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#83 - 2011-12-02 07:07:14 UTC
I see you bolded the important parts
Mors Sanctitatis
Death of Virtue
#84 - 2011-12-02 07:29:21 UTC
Excellent job James. Very nice.
Jen Nova
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#85 - 2011-12-02 07:34:00 UTC
Read the whole thing and I must say, I wholeheartedly agree with the OP!
McRoll
Extraction and Exploration Ltd.
#86 - 2011-12-02 08:03:22 UTC
1) I am amazed and shocked because of the amount of people who are unable to read 7k words, as they themselves claim. Are there so many people who cannot do that? Humanity is doomed, I tell youLol

2) A post of highest quality, enjoyed reading. Also agree on most parts.

3) There seriously needs to be a complete mining redesign. It needs to be more interactive and it should involve some skill and/or knowledge in order to get the most isk out of it. That way people would actually play the game while mining and not just wait until the cycle completes. If CCP would do that, they can consider revamping missions as well (like adding Sleeper AI at least)

(I am thinking about a mechanics similar to PI for example, where you have to scan the asteroid and manually aim the lasers at the points with the highest ore concentration, or something like that. I am sure CCP can come up with something, they just need to want to)
Aabis Jeasu
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#87 - 2011-12-02 08:05:40 UTC
Good read, but there is an external force giving life support to this cancer and you cant do anything about it but pis and moan.
Minister of Death
Colossus Enterprises
#88 - 2011-12-02 08:08:51 UTC
Reading a thread like this makes me want to quit Eve.

The reason it does so is because of the intense idiocy and inanity in most of the replies. If this many stupid people play this game, and I play this game, then I am playing a game with a lot of stupendously stupid people, and that isn't attractive to me.

Sometimes these forums are a real turnoff to the game itself :( It is literally and completely impossible for me to fathom some of the raw stupidity I read on Eve Online forums. I wish I was joking.
Arcathra
Technodyne Ltd.
#89 - 2011-12-02 08:12:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Arcathra
Dear James 315

Your statement gives a good explanation of how the gankers feel about miners in general, but you make a lot of assumptions that you can't back up as justifications for your actions.
Also you explanation is made to feel better about what you are doing. Because if everything would be that logical, you wouldn't need to justify your actions.

No matter how much you write or what "logical conclusions" you draw, it's just your oppinion on that matter. And you show an awful lot of prejudices that are just that.

You should realise that the bots are as much a problem for us miners than they are for the rest of the game. Even more so for us, because they reduce our ISK income. I would be as happy as you if they ban all the botters in the end.
We are guilty because we would bot mine when it would be legal? You see the logical flaw in your argumentation? If they ever legalize botting, of course a lot of people (including nullsec players with highsec mining alts) would use them. Why? Because it would be allowed and a normal game mechanic. Believe it or not, most miners I know wouldn't appreciate it, because it would destroy the gameplay we like. My guess is, that mostly the real akf miners would have fun with that. Where fun might not be the correct word... You are generalizing too much.

Piling a lot of ISK just for the sake of it is unfortunately something, a lot of miners seem to do. But by far not everyone. I'm using my ISK to buy other ships than mining ships, occasionaly I even use them in *gasp* PvP! Also many afk miners are alts of nullsec oder lowsec players. They use the ISK to fund their main characters style of play. I think most people who mine in highsec actually put a lot of their ISK back into the market. As others already said, mission running is a lot bigger problem with this. In the end, miners generate the resources to build the ships that others (or even themselve) destroy in PvP.
To say it as clear as possible: mining (no matter where) is a perfectly legal, viable and needed profession. Just because they mine the way the game mechanics allow them to, they are not "bad" people per se.

Miners have never taken a single action to protect themselves? How could they? Mining barges and exhumers aren't exactly ships someone can defend himself with. Use battleships to mine? It's a bad option, because the revenue is much lower with them and to get a good yield you have to disregard your tanking ability. Mining in highsec is already not that profitable, you know.
The problem is that there is no real good way to protect against suicide gankers. The machanics work in your favor, not in the favor of the miners. Until you attack, there is nothing a miner can do against a ganker other than flee, if he can. And when the ganker opens fire, it's already too late in most cases. We could discuss for hours who the coward is in the end. And don't forget too look what the miner looses and what the ganker looses. It can be frustrating to loose a ship that costs nearly 200 million to a handful of destroyers. It's not frustrating that a ship like this can be destroyed, but it shouldn't be that easy as it is now.

I'm not asking for harsher treatment for gankers and in general I'm okay with ganking. I also think that a lot of miners are whining and raging a bit too much and don't really help to make the situation better.
My guess is, that gankers don't do it because they actually hate the highsec miners. They do it because of the thrills and because of the whining and raging afterwards. We germans have a good word to discribe that, you use it even in the english language: schadenfreude. Why I think that is the case? Because if I would decide to gank I would do it exactly because of that. Everything else would just be a justification to make me feel better and not have to pity my victim.

Quote:
Can anyone give me one good reason why I should not kill the highsec miners?

Maybe because they don't have done anything to you personaly? Because they are in general no threat to you? The question I would like to ask: What do you actually gain by killing them, when factoring out the "thrill" of it? Why bother with people you don't want to play with? You could just ignore them.

You know, there goes a saying: Live and let live.
EVE is a big sandbox. Highsec miners play the game how they like it. If they like to hoard a lot of ISK and not doing something else with it, what bothers you so much about that? If you live in nullsec, what interest do you have in the matters of highsec? Why can't you respect the way other people have fun in the game? Even so I don't like gankers I can respect their style of play.


I am against afk miners and botters as much as you, but suicide ganking isn't the way to solve that problem.
Berendas
EVE University
Ivy League
#90 - 2011-12-02 08:22:04 UTC
My hat is off to OP, read the whole thing and enjoyed every word. It was very well written, and in every way deserving of a 10/10.

Also, you are a ******* psychopath in a very beautiful and fun to read about way.
Jinli mei
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#91 - 2011-12-02 08:24:50 UTC
McRoll wrote:
1) I am amazed and shocked because of the amount of people who are unable to read 7k words, as they themselves claim. Are there so many people who cannot do that? Humanity is doomed, I tell youLol


some nobody somewhere said that brevity is the soul of wit, if you want me to read a 7k post it needs to actually say something that requires 7k. There's mathematical research papers out there that aren't as long and have substantially more content.
Andski
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#92 - 2011-12-02 08:27:26 UTC
ahahaha this thread

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar

Basileus Volkan
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#93 - 2011-12-02 08:33:16 UTC
I admire the effort but there are a lot of fallacies in there, bro.
Pak Narhoo
Splinter Foundation
#94 - 2011-12-02 08:51:41 UTC
My mornings only start when I have a good laugh.
First thing I do therefor is to check the EVE forums.

Never failed me once.

Lol
sYnc Vir
Wolfsbrigade
Ghost Legion.
#95 - 2011-12-02 08:53:08 UTC
Going to be honest, didn't read all of it because you became too stupid for me to care. However the parts I did read gave me a nice enough picture.

One, treating human players the same because "they act like bots so whatever." sounds like an excuse but Im guess anyone that took the time to write this post doesn't really need or want one, but it does. The fact that some gankers say they are "anti botters" yet target players using ORCAs shows they are lying. To the best of my knowlegde botters can't use a three hulk/orca combo yet hulks surrounding a orca are prime targets. Now if im wrong about that I will hold up my hands, but i don't believe I am.

Fact is, most gankers target miners because when a shield boosting hulk is your target, 4 or 5 volleys from thrashers is enough to kill it. It is nothing more then a Killboard epeen tool with a now increase profit from the salvage buff. I do mine in high sec from time to time, mostly watching sports. I will say thou with the new T2 gang links and an Orca at L4 the cycle time is now just 123.3 Seconds. So anyone using Three Hulks and an Orca is neither a bot or afk, yet Im sure they will be a target for "anti botters".

The simple truth is people attack miners because its easy, profitable, and will always make you killboard stats better. Those are the true reasons for it. Im not against that in general, I just get alittle pissed that alot of gankers are not honest about it and claim anti bot when going about it.

I think moving forward I would like to see the EHP of hulks improved, however I would frown apon them becoming ungankable as I don't believe anywhere in eve should be safe. My only breaking of that rule would be in 1.0 system for players under 60 days. Eve should reframe from scamming, killing and grifing players long enough for them to become invested so they don't just leave for something else.

And just for the record, I have myself reported people for botting, and was shocked to see them actually stop logging. As if someone actually banned them for a time. I may have also killed a few miners, I did feel bad but in my defence they were in lowsec.

Don't ask about Italics, just tilt your head.

Lord Mandelor
Oruze Cruise
White Stag Exit Bag
#96 - 2011-12-02 09:12:43 UTC
That was a wonderful read. Thank you.
Rellik B00n
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#97 - 2011-12-02 09:22:19 UTC
looks like the biggest load of bollocks/troll ever to me, especially when you consider that miners have by far the lowest isk/hour ratio in the whole game.

There is no justification at all for killing them, but if you need justification for anything you do in EvE theres something wrong with you anyway. Just kill em, doesnt need a 50 page OP to justify.

[Of a request for change ask: Who Benefits?](https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=199765)
Akrasjel Lanate
Lanate Industries
#98 - 2011-12-02 09:23:30 UTC
TL;DR Shocked

CEO of Lanate Industries

Citizen of Solitude

ariana ailith
Dukalin
#99 - 2011-12-02 09:34:48 UTC
tl;dr times 8

I didn't read it all but the first 2 posts are so flawed in reasoning its beyond worth caring for...

Opertone
State War Academy
Caldari State
#100 - 2011-12-02 09:35:16 UTC
EPIC READ!!!

finished 3 posts, will be back when I've done more

This post sums up why the 'best' work with DCM inc.

WARP DRIVE makes eve boring

really - add warping align time 300% on gun aggression and eve becomes great again