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Let me tell you why people are killing highsec miners. A manifesto.

First post
Author
Caliburn
Lust Avarice and Gluttony Inc
#701 - 2012-05-06 18:40:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Caliburn
Lol. Not going to read all 30+ pages so don't know if i'm repeating what others have said but null sec is full of botters who pay the big alliances shed loads of isk , so perhaps there are those who wish ore prices to rise and therefor increase the amount they can squeeze out of renters Smile.
Equally the more miners you kill the more expensive things get for everyone including the gankers, NOT that I am in anyway supporting bots as far as I'm concerned you can gank as many as you like but perhaps grow some and try ganking botters in null sec as well instead of spoiling the GAME for some people many of whom will be just starting off causing them to quit which further damages the game.
Cyan StormForge
Doomheim
#702 - 2012-05-06 21:39:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Cyan StormForge
Nikola Aivoras wrote:
[quote=Eve Antonovich]Is there a tl;dr?


TL;DR

People say gankers are horrible people with no life. In response, I call all hisec miners bots, or if they aren't bots, they want to be anyway. Also, they are intrinsically evil. They are heartless, cold beings with one goal in mind - to make ISK the easiest way possible.

In order to rid the earth of this scourge, all hisec miners, bot or not, should be scoured from the belts.

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Although I have been cannon fodder enough times to know how much I despise ganking, (while minding my own damn business, trying to build my own corp, in areas of space that are "supposed" to be relatively safe- then losing it all) I actually disagree with the anti-ganking mindset- to a point.

When we 'mine', we have to accept that as soon as we undock; there are, will be, and should be certain risks involved and this includes players who choose to play the game differently (ganking, con artists, pvp, etc. It is this diversity in game play that makes EVE fun, dangerous, and therefore realistic. Do I like losing my mining ships, ore, equipment, etc? No I don't. but it's part of the game- a game that prides itself on realism.

Realism is the key word here. Solo mining should be more dangerous than mining in a fleet, and a mining fleet should include a security force and support vessels piloted by people who are paying attention to the game!! If you AFK mine or guard, you definitely lose and it's your own fault. And when your not AFK, sometimes you win, lose, or break even. Mining ships should be running tanks because pirate forces can and should randomly appear from nowhere (human or computer generated). Asteroids should be a true collide-able objects that can cause damage by collision or even by random explosions while mining them( only one ore type does this?), or theoretical scientific phenomena and/or gravitational forces because it keeps people glued to their seats, and prevents botting. Asteroid belts, (regardless of sec. status) are, not friendly places to be, both in theory and in real life. For the time being, ganking as a main source of danger in the belts, (and only real danger in high sec belts) is serving that purpose.

CCP should add in-game features (such as those I've mentioned above) to make mining more difficult and to add a greater sense of realism- botting problem solved. Then when this has been done, we can see if the author and his cronies hold true to their word that they do this to help eliminate botting (and etc.) or if this is simply a matter of market manipulation and/or harassment or even a gray area that CCP uses to increase the sales of PLEX as miners have to replace their ships and equipment after these mass ganks. (Speculation and arguments on why people really gank and are allowed to gank, solved)

But then again if CCP won't do more to end ganking or it's root causes, why isn't anyone else out there taking the initiative to find ways to "creatively" deal with the problem? We as players (regardless of profession) are capable of making choices, are we not? If ganking is such a horrible and heinous act, then where are the people willing to fight back? Why arn't the mega corporations or alliances guarding the belts? Where is the several thousand member fleet flying into null sec bent on taking their oppressors down in whatever ways possible? I've never seen any of these things- (bad enough trying to get enough players to quickly deal with an incursion) and I don't see them happening now even as people cry over their losses. The bottom line is, that if you want something to end, 'you' end it. You simply don't hang around waiting for someone else to do it for you.

Note: you can't really blame newer players for trying to make a lot of ISK as fast as possible. Training books, implants, ships, and equipment are not cheap for the beginner, and in the grand scheme of things, mining isn't as risky as PVP or missions. But then again, (in my own eyes) I really don't see these career gankers harassing newer players, only those who have been on for a while 'herding or grazing' around the belts. And I therefore admit, that it was my own fault for my ship losses for becoming complacent in the belts- not that I ever AFK mined, just never tanked.

Note: some of miners out there are not the cold, heartless, evil, greedy people that you portray them to be. Some people out there simply choose to conduct their activities without the aid of a group; are actually more interested in building items with their ore than cashing it in for ISK- so that it benefits other players, and have genuinely 'noble intentions' not unlike myself. But those who infiltrated and ultimately destroyed my corp (and some very expensive mining ships and industrial ships) didn't really care what my intentions were. In my book, it is this in-discriminant killing and destruction of personal property (for ***** and giggles) that was the true evil there- not my willingness to help newer players get a foothold within the game.

Lastly: I give the author of the original post a lot of credit for pointing out that staying in high sec and not taking greater risks in-game is having a bad effect on the game. I can see it in myself as well as other players: I mine for a bit, mission for a bit, conduct my business for a bit, then get extremely bored because it's simply so damn repetitious. We as miners need to get out in low sec and null sec and PVP from time to time; explore, and even conduct mining ops, and etc. He's also right that there is a lot more trash and criminal activity in high sec, where as low and null sec are relatively quiet- minus the gate camps and career pirates of course.
Abel Merkabah
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#703 - 2012-05-06 22:18:45 UTC
James 315 wrote:
I remarked at the beauty of the Ice Field when it was devoid of miners.


Best part of the whole manifesto, imo.

James315 for CSM 8!

Shea Valerien
House of Valerien
#704 - 2012-05-06 22:22:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Shea Valerien
Always amazes me how much time you waste on these things.

And no, not every miner is essentially a "bot." No more than any mission runner. Or any exploration person that presses the same keys and repeats the same functions over and over. Or anybody that uses the same PVP fitting on his rifter and uses the same attack process almost every time. Or incursion runners. And it doesn't matter whether you do these in high, low or null (you almost need to be as vigilant in well traveled high sec systems these days as a miner as you do in low or nullsec).

Eve, in and of itself, is a spreadsheet game, which makes it very prone to "botting" behavior from every player. This isn't a reflex-based shooter.

These "manifestos" always humor me to no end.
Teryn Atrus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#705 - 2012-05-07 04:03:14 UTC
I just started and I have the bare minimum of weapons and a sorry excuse for a ship with little understanding of all aspects of the game. Mining in high sec is a way to make some money while my skills train and I learn about what to do. Forgive me if I need a little protection. I dont really think I should be thrown into a pvp area with people who have three years of equipment and experience.
Abel Merkabah
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#706 - 2012-05-07 04:46:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Abel Merkabah
Teryn Atrus wrote:
I just started and I have the bare minimum of weapons and a sorry excuse for a ship with little understanding of all aspects of the game. Mining in high sec is a way to make some money while my skills train and I learn about what to do. Forgive me if I need a little protection. I dont really think I should be thrown into a pvp area with people who have three years of equipment and experience.


Welcome to the game! I just started as well (800k SP, still running Meta 0). But have had no problems getting ganked, I don't mine for money, I run security missions...I'm not sure what the payout comparison is between the two, but I rarely get bothered...if I do, it is because I am prowling lowsec and deserve it/expect it...lol...although I am always cautious of my surroundings, even in highsec...

You don't have to mine, and too be honest, with all the hate on miners right now, I wouldn't suggest it...although you may not have to worry, as they will be able to tell you are new based upon the ship you are flying, and it may not be worth the cost to them...

Either way, welcome fellow n00b, I wish you the best of luck, as long as your good fortune doesn't conflict with mine...

James315 for CSM 8!

Zora'e
#707 - 2012-05-07 04:54:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Zora'e
Eve Antonovich wrote:
Is there a tl;dr?


tldr: I just like being a prick, but used over 7000 words to rationalize it.

*edit* And just to be clear, I have no problem with people ganking miners. Just be real about it and admit it's because your a prick, like being a prick, and this game is designed for pricks. Don't try to rationalize it to make your reasons 'legit' when the facts are, you like being a prick, and that is why you play EVE.

Now, go gank some more Miners.

I won't say you are stupid, but you're not exactly on the Zombie menu either.

Lexar Mundi
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#708 - 2012-05-07 06:24:54 UTC
Nikola Aivoras wrote:
Eve Antonovich wrote:
Is there a tl;dr?


TL;DR

People say gankers are horrible people with no life. In response, I call all hisec miners bots, or if they aren't bots, they want to be anyway. Also, they are intrinsically evil. They are heartless, cold beings with one goal in mind - to make ISK the easiest way possible.

In order to rid the earth of this scourge, all hisec miners, bot or not, should be scoured from the belts.

I will now tell you pointless stories about my personal ganking achievements.

CALL TO ARMS!! RID THE WORLD OF THESE MACHINE MEN!!!!

so basically miners make up reasons why gankers are bad and gankers make up reasons why miners are bad, ahhhh I see it now
Pyotr Kamarovi
Kamarov Financial
#709 - 2012-05-07 06:41:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Pyotr Kamarovi
Damn those miners for trying to avoid having to watch lasers flicker out from their ship for hours on end! Damn them! Why, it's not like minerals are an essential part of EVE, and gun mining is being nerfed! No, there are lots of sources of minerals, we don't need dirty, scum miners.
Son IamaDerp
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#710 - 2012-05-07 06:48:30 UTC
Damn, I actually read the OP's whole manifesto and it was beautiful. Just...beautiful.
Lapine Davion
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
#711 - 2012-05-07 08:05:30 UTC
Pyotr Kamarovi wrote:
Damn those miners for trying to avoid having to watch lasers flicker out from their ship for hours on end! Damn them! Why, it's not like minerals are an essential part of EVE, and gun mining is being nerfed! No, there are lots of sources of minerals, we don't need dirty, scum miners.


We need fewer whiners and more miners. I myself am doing my part by mining everything I can in Nullsec, and not whining about it if i get blown up for not paying close enough attention.

Are you doing your part?

[b]Don't worry about posting with your main!  Post with your brain! "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."[/b]

Loike
Pyramid Celestial
#712 - 2012-05-07 08:09:47 UTC
I also like coke.
Zirm
HIgh Sec Care Bears
Brothers of Tangra
#713 - 2012-05-07 09:54:28 UTC
Eve needs trit so bad after drone nerf, pls stfu bot miners keep the low end mineral supply going.
Luis Graca
#714 - 2012-05-07 09:58:49 UTC
Why people are killing highsec miners?

Simple. why not?
Tyrande Whispermoon
The Third Incarnation
#715 - 2012-05-07 11:52:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyrande Whispermoon
At the risk of being labelled "carebear" I decided to join in this thread.

I run a very small purely high-sec mining/mission corp with a few of my real life friends, we like to senselessly murder defenceless 'roids for hours on end, clocking up the ISK so that we can go and do level 4 missions in shiny navy/pirate battleships and enjoy being pr01337 and epic etc etc /carebear ftw.


Now Hulkageddon is something of an annoyance to us, but it does't ruin the game for us, and we aren't stupid enough to go AFK mining even in High-sec at any time, player organised event or not. Any capsuleer with 1/2 a brain will have more than one source of income, and any good business person knows that putting all your eggs in one ORE basket is not a wise move but for those other miners who struggle with coming to terms with the dangers of spaceship mining, and rage at the gankers I have a philosophy for you:

Rule 34: Peace is good for business
Rule 35: War is good for business
Rule 45: Expand or die.
Rule 62: The riskier the road, the greater the profit.

Basically what I'm saying is I support Hulkageddon and suicide ganking as a necessary evil, much like seal culling. I might not like the fact it happens, but I appreciate the need for it and the logic behind it.

Fly safe and always keep an eye on your scanner XD
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#716 - 2012-05-07 11:53:31 UTC
Some threads just need to curl up in the corner and quietly give up the ghost.....................

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882

Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
#717 - 2012-05-07 12:05:37 UTC
There's no way in hell I'm going to read all(any) of that. However I do have to give you props for writing it.

CCP's Motto: If it isn't broken, break it. If it is broken, ignore it. Improving NPE / Dynamic New Eden

Pyotr Kamarovi
Kamarov Financial
#718 - 2012-05-07 12:07:44 UTC
Lapine Davion wrote:
Pyotr Kamarovi wrote:
Damn those miners for trying to avoid having to watch lasers flicker out from their ship for hours on end! Damn them! Why, it's not like minerals are an essential part of EVE, and gun mining is being nerfed! No, there are lots of sources of minerals, we don't need dirty, scum miners.


We need fewer whiners and more miners. I myself am doing my part by mining everything I can in Nullsec, and not whining about it if i get blown up for not paying close enough attention.

Are you doing your part?


I don't mine. I hate mining. At least in missions I can have some input, but in mining I do nothing. But I respect miners for actually putting up with the sheer, mind-crushing boredom of it.
Sidus Isaacs
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#719 - 2012-05-07 12:21:35 UTC
Shea Valerien wrote:
Always amazes me how much time you waste on these things.

And no, not every miner is essentially a "bot." No more than any mission runner. Or any exploration person that presses the same keys and repeats the same functions over and over. Or anybody that uses the same PVP fitting on his rifter and uses the same attack process almost every time. Or incursion runners. And it doesn't matter whether you do these in high, low or null (you almost need to be as vigilant in well traveled high sec systems these days as a miner as you do in low or nullsec).

Eve, in and of itself, is a spreadsheet game, which makes it very prone to "botting" behavior from every player. This isn't a reflex-based shooter.

These "manifestos" always humor me to no end.


I would suggest actually playing EVE for once... like really playing the game, not just grinding. To know the thrill of actual PVP, where your mind and ingenuity comes into play. To know he fun of engineering events to your desires. To be there with friends and those who you trust and do it together, or alone if that is your thing.

OP makes some baseless assumptions about some stupid stuff, but he is having fun and doing his thing. Is not that what EVE is really about? And I agree that afk high sec ming is beyond comprehension, I mean, if all you do is afk mine for the sake of afk mining. Its like a reflection of real life of those who go to work to get enough money just to continue to go to work. Mindlessly wasting their time for the sake of wasting their time.
Ana Vyr
Vyral Technologies
#720 - 2012-05-07 13:43:01 UTC
I wonder at times if they do it (kill miners) because there's really nothing better to do?

Nullsec gameplay is such a pain in the ass and non-casual. Lowsec...yeah. Wormholes...big commitment there to really do anything worthwhile.

Is this what "casual" PvP has evolved into?