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Let me tell you why people are killing highsec miners. A manifesto.

First post
The Old Chap
#261 - 2011-12-04 11:34:34 UTC

I mine in hi-sec with one char.

I gank hi-sec miners with another toon.

I decided to post in this thread with a different alt, so my views would be impartial. Roll

I might post again with a different alt, to approve of this one's post.

So just how meaningful is this entire thread?

Look into my eyes...   and tighten that sphincter, kid.

Aine Morchet
Beautiful Space
#262 - 2011-12-04 11:38:12 UTC
Could be about half as long with the same amount of crazy, but still a good read :D

Though you didn't really go far enough. Don't hi-sec miners need to be rounded up and put into special camps?

BBJ Shepard
#263 - 2011-12-04 15:14:20 UTC
James 315 wrote:
Not only is the highsec miner incapable of feeling anything, he's also incapable of valuing anything. In a game filled with corporations, alliances, coalitions, and empires, one of the most basic values in Eve is loyalty. Don't misunderstand. Sure, there's plenty of treachery and betrayal in Eve. But it takes the form of a spy or traitor's loyalty to his true employer. Agents play a double or triple game. Even the most duplicitous deceivers in the game usually have an attachment to something. The Mittani, The greatest spymaster in Eve--some might say the only true spymaster the game has ever produced--has betrayed or engineered the betrayal of thousands of corporations, but always remains loyal to the Goons. Some traitors are just out for themselves, but when they finally burn their last employer or friend, they usually quit the game soon afterward.

Then there are the highsec miners. They don't believe in anything or anyone. Sometimes they form corporations, even though they're in highsec and have no need of blues. Then a war declaration comes and they all run their separate ways. At first, they make bold claims about fighting back or taking arms. But then these miners--the same ones who scream bloody murder about the "dishonorable" suicide gankers--scatter like sheep and leave their friends to die. Always.

Standing up for someone else takes ISK, you see. It would be a risk. One might even have to put down the mining laser for a few seconds. The highsec miner's devotion to his pile of ISK reasserts itself, and everything else is abandoned. The corporation is dissolved and he resumes his endless, pointless efforts in the asteroid belts. Perhaps he joins another mining corporation and bolts when it runs into trouble. Or he'll remain in his NPC corp and slave away by himself. Why bother even pretending?

The best and brightest of the highsec miners will venture to nullsec. They'll join an alliance surrounded by a coalition of blues. They'll nestle in the deepest blue of the bluest territories they can find, and try to make some ISK. Then, when trouble inevitably arrives, the poor fellow is gone with the first failure cascade. He didn't sign up for that whole "conflict" thing. Eventually perhaps he'll tire of it all and return to the asteroid belts in highsec where he belongs. Or he'll quit the game. Good riddance.

* * *

That's enough bashing the highsec miners for now. What about their good points? What about their contributions to the Eve community? I could go on and on about all of the wonderful things the highsec miners have added to the Eve universe--or at least, I could if there were any. They have produced nothing of value whatsoever.

That's not to say highsec miners leave no legacy. Actually, they do. Their legacy is a series of nerfs to highsec warfare. They whine and whine, and eventually CCP takes pity on them and gives them a few nerfs to make highsec safer. And the highsec miners are quite satisfied with this, until they end up a smoldering wreck because the suicide gankers keep on coming.

There have been at least a dozen separate nerfs to highsec violence over the years. They run the gamut: Buffs to CONCORD, faster CONCORD response time, drone bandwidth disabling, buffs to ship hitpoints, limits on war declarations, faster corp member expulsion, increased security standing losses, limits to insurance payouts--anything you can imagine. The bleating for nerfs has never stopped because the killing has never stopped.

Aside from whining to CCP, highsec miners have never taken a single action on their own to protect themselves. They have never made a single innovation in Eve, ever. Instead, the suicide gankers--many of whom are the brightest minds in Eve--take it upon themselves to adapt to all of the nerfs. The suicide gankers have been ingenious in finding new ways to inflict damage upon the carebears. If they didn't, the carebears wouldn't need to whine for more protection. Suicide gankers thus represent the creative force in Eve. The highsec miners are unable to produce any creative thought--again, like bots who cannot go beyond their simple programming.

Ironically, when the gankers look askance at any of the new nerfs, the highsec miners then smugly tell the gankers to "adapt." The hypocrisy goes without saying, of course. Highsec miners have never adapted to anything in their lives. They go to highsec precisely because they're incapable of dealing with the world around them. They declare that the "tears" of the gankers are delicious--a meme which they picked up from their hated enemy, the Goons. Unfortunately for the highsec miners, the suicide gankers do adapt, and the whole process starts over again.

Highsec miners are no strangers to hypocrisy. They also whine that suicide attacks require no skill, even though clearly their own profession--shooting rocks with lasers in highsec--requires much less
Highsec miners are a superstitious and cowardly lot. They always believe CCP will save them if they cry enough. Within two days after word got out that the winter expansion would nerf insurance payments further, I already saw highsec miners gloating about it in local, and about how it would end suicide ganking forever.

Highsec miner, allow me to suggest an alternative forecast for the winter.

It's gonna be cold...

It's gonna be gray...
And it's gonna last you for the rest of your life.

* * * (Proceed to section 4.) * * *

heeyehehe m, you are wise beyon yoeu 12 yeers of age:)


Crystal Liche
ACME Mineral and Gas
#264 - 2011-12-04 15:35:01 UTC
"Highsec miners--who sacrifice all of their time and dignity for the sake of earning ISK--just can't understand why people will throw away ships to CONCORD in order to suicide gank"

How stupid is this, miners know that the suicide gankers Pay To Win and that is why they don't care about earning isk.

The rest is just a self justification for being lame Big smile.
Pedro Snachez
Red Horse Heavy Industries
#265 - 2011-12-04 15:41:12 UTC
Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
Hellen Kurvora
HC - Degc
#266 - 2011-12-04 15:54:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Hellen Kurvora
People are suicide ganking, because it's starting to get really old that the carebears in this game just chill in empire space and never leave. All the while complaining that income from mining is garbage.

Guess what? Try leaving empire space and going out where the money is, like the rest of us have to do to make decent isk. In all my years playing eve I don't think I have ever seen a miner in low sec. This ruins the game for non-carebears and makes the pirate profession limited to gate camping. That is not how the game was designed. It is risk equals reward.

You want to chill in empire space for your entire Eve life? Fine, you are entitled to do that. Just don't complain that you are not making any isk. The carebears are getting old.

To the suicide gankers: nice work, keep it up.
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#267 - 2011-12-04 15:56:57 UTC
Demosthenes returns.

James 315, I believe this to be one of, if not the most poignant and heart-felt of your many essays.

The fact that your powerful manifesto of Eve's currently disheartening zero-risk empire zeitgeist resulted in 14 pages of posts, (most of which only serves to prove your arguments regarding the insidious and corrupting thought processes of the self-enslaved-hisec-miner) is truly a testament to your oratory prowess.

As a long-time follower of Karttoon's teachings it gives me much pleasure to see that while the directorate of my own alliance has since tried to distance themselves from the one true prophet his lessons have not been forgotten.

I am afraid that until exclusively empire players are willing to apply a modicum of self-analysis and realise the stupidity in their own self-inflicted misery your valiant struggle will never end. Although that is perfectly alright because as you say; Those willing to give up their own possessions in order to take away those of the mewling, unthinking masses will always hold the initiative, relegating their victims into a perpetual reactionary stance, forever on the back-foot and forever held to the whims of those with the intelligence and drive to control them.

Never forget that you are not alone in this.


Tanya Powers
#268 - 2011-12-04 16:11:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Tanya Powers
Logix42 wrote:
OP is slightly insane but..... eve takes all types ....
while i agree suicide ganking helps with the bot problem - which in my part of the universe is small - i have only this to say: If beating up helpless people is your thing... you are morally corrupt, enjoy your miserable life cause your not bothering me

If you're really looking forward to get rid of bots it's not in high sec that you should gank but in null sec.

Invalid argument.

Nyx's being ganked while "rating" anoms afk? Lol

Tengu's cleaning the same belts for hours/days/weeks and finally jumping in to one bubble because they can't d-scan it? Lol

Just two examples but null sec is full of these everywhere, and those using/protecting them blah blah about high sec bots...what a joke.

All I say is go ahead keep the gank going, you should intensify and extend it to every region 24/24-7/7.
I'd really be happy to see this happen, not because of the miners tears but for what comes next, gankers tears just like for insurance removal.
Kerist Lafayette
The Lafayette Family
#269 - 2011-12-04 16:14:17 UTC
James 315 wrote:
With the recent surge

Wow. I mean, seriously, wow. I've worked in public service and in investment banking, but I don't think I've ever seen a primate more in need of a bl*w j*b than you.
Likely Suspects
RAZOR Alliance
#270 - 2011-12-04 16:18:49 UTC
Interesting read.
Flies Incandenza
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#271 - 2011-12-04 16:58:59 UTC
great read.
Krios Ahzek
Goonswarm Federation
#272 - 2011-12-04 20:30:38 UTC
Pedro Snachez wrote:
Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

-10 points for quoting without posting the original

 Though All Men Do Despise Us

Mortis vonShadow
Balanaz Mining and Development Inc.
#273 - 2011-12-04 20:38:07 UTC
Lonox wrote:
The best thing to ever happen to EVE would be to remove industry entirely. CCP could slap bounties on the drones then, seed the market with everything you'd need, go F2P and open up the cash shop. EVE wouldn't die, maybe all the whiner's would finally leave and they'd make a killing. Lol

The asshat is strong in this one. Please for all that is holy, stop talking before you hurt yourself.

Some days you're the bug, and some days your the windscreen.                   And some days, you're just a man with a gun.

Good Time Family Band Solution
#274 - 2011-12-04 21:30:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Teamosil
I'm fine with suicide ganking, but seriously, people who are actually like sitting behind their computer getting steaming mad that there are hi sec carebears in the game? That's just an emotional problem you need to deal with.

Also, just to clear something up... A lot of folks on this and other threads seem to be confusing things with inflation and deflation. High demand, low supply means inflation, where low demand, high supply means deflation. Anything that either increases supply or decreases demand leads to deflationary pressure. Anything that decreases supply or increases demand leads to inflationary pressure.

Things that cause deflation:
Hi sec mining (increase supply)
Refining mission loot or drone ores (increase supply)
Unsubs of pvpers (decrease demand)

Things that cause inflation:
Blowing things up (increase demand)
High sec ganking (decrease supply and increase demand)
Collecting bounties (increase demand)
Insurance (increase demand)
Random Austrene
#275 - 2011-12-04 21:46:13 UTC
What a fantastic read, honest. I mean the rationalizations the logical fallacies, heck it's even reusable. If you go through and replace the word "miner" with your least favorite ethnic minority or cultural subgoup you've got a template for most of the atrocities committed in human history.

You've truly tapped into your inner warlord or petty despot. Well done!
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#276 - 2011-12-04 22:07:43 UTC
Stopped reading after OP compared AFK miners to bots, because I don't disagree, and I never AFK mine. "AFK = bot" seemed to be the crux of the arguments in the rest of the posts I scanned.

I suspect that is why I've not yet lost a mining ship in nearly three years, even when I was attacked w-space (note: bombs hurt, a lot), as I don't AFK mine. There are also simple measures that can be taken to reduce risk, but they are also pointless unless you are at the keyboard.

Though I'm a miner (not exclusively), I also support suicide ganks. That must blow your mind.

Last evening a friend went out looking for miners to gank for the first time. I gave him some pointers.
Rellik B00n
Lethal Death Squad
#277 - 2011-12-05 00:36:10 UTC
Hellen Kurvora wrote:
Try leaving empire space and going out where the money is, like the rest of us have to do to make decent isk...

i loled

Hellen Kurvora wrote:
You want to chill in empire space for your entire Eve life? Fine, you are entitled to do that.

why thank you i will cheers.
[Of a request for change ask: Who Benefits?](
Veerhouven Group
#278 - 2011-12-05 00:55:33 UTC
The Old Chap wrote:

I might post again with a different alt, to approve of this one's post.

So just how meaningful is this entire thread?

Real player's alts don't post. GTFO
Veerhouven Group
#279 - 2011-12-05 00:58:34 UTC  |  Edited by: ACY GTMI
The Old Chap wrote:

I might post again with a different alt, to approve of this one's post.

So just how meaningful is this entire thread?

Real player's alts don't post. GTFO

Well, I thought it was so pertinent that I would post it twice . . . not.
Goonswarm Federation
#280 - 2011-12-05 01:12:47 UTC
today I murdered 8 macks and 6 hulks, as well as 3 retrievers and six pods (including one guy with +5s and one guy with +4s and 4 +5%s)

**** owned

death 2 miners

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.