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Let me tell you why people are killing highsec miners. A manifesto.

First post
Author
ACY GTMI
Veerhouven Group
#241 - 2011-12-03 22:50:52 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
This thread is a masterpiece, i appreciate the time it took to write it.


And you are a pinhead.

I regret the waste of life force wasted on your creation.
Lonox
Doomheim
#242 - 2011-12-03 23:02:01 UTC
The best thing to ever happen to EVE would be to remove industry entirely. CCP could slap bounties on the drones then, seed the market with everything you'd need, go F2P and open up the cash shop. EVE wouldn't die, maybe all the whiner's would finally leave and they'd make a killing. Lol
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#243 - 2011-12-03 23:08:42 UTC
ACY GTMI wrote:
Weaselior wrote:
This thread is a masterpiece, i appreciate the time it took to write it.


And you are a pinhead.

I regret the waste of life force wasted on your creation.

that hurts, man

you shouldn't throw around burns like that willy-nilly

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.

Russell Casey
Doomheim
#244 - 2011-12-03 23:12:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Russell Casey
Lonox wrote:
The best thing to ever happen to EVE would be to remove industry entirely. CCP could slap bounties on the drones then, seed the market with everything you'd need, go F2P and open up the cash shop. EVE wouldn't die, maybe all the whiner's would finally leave and they'd make a killing. Lol


Actually the best thing would be removal of isk bounties/mission isk payouts. Make ratting as much about harvesting resources for a player driven economy as every other profession. Missions would be about getting loyalty points to spend on items plus whatever was dragged in and incursions would actually be run like the loot-dropping boss encounters they were meant to be instead of rat-chaining in highsec.

No more isk faucets to inflate the economy, isk truly becomes a currency and the capitalism game is actually capitalism because people compete and fight over control of resoures and not the biggest money-trees.
Lonox
Doomheim
#245 - 2011-12-03 23:50:38 UTC
Russell Casey wrote:
Lonox wrote:
The best thing to ever happen to EVE would be to remove industry entirely. CCP could slap bounties on the drones then, seed the market with everything you'd need, go F2P and open up the cash shop. EVE wouldn't die, maybe all the whiner's would finally leave and they'd make a killing. Lol


Actually the best thing would be removal of isk bounties/mission isk payouts. Make ratting as much about harvesting resources for a player driven economy as every other profession. Missions would be about getting loyalty points to spend on items plus whatever was dragged in and incursions would actually be run like the loot-dropping boss encounters they were meant to be instead of rat-chaining in highsec.

No more isk faucets to inflate the economy, isk truly becomes a currency and the capitalism game is actually capitalism because people compete and fight over control of resoures and not the biggest money-trees.


Yeah, about that player driven economy thing, turns out noone cares. Well, maybe a few economists that bring their work home do but that's about it. People like making things go boom and detest players that go against the grain. I like my way better, it gets rid of the crap and ships go boom. It's a win/win for everyone, except for industry players but who cares?
Gorefacer
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#246 - 2011-12-03 23:56:51 UTC
Minister of Death wrote:
Reading a thread like this makes me want to quit Eve.

The reason it does so is because of the intense idiocy and inanity in most of the replies. If this many stupid people play this game, and I play this game, then I am playing a game with a lot of stupendously stupid people, and that isn't attractive to me.

Sometimes these forums are a real turnoff to the game itself :( It is literally and completely impossible for me to fathom some of the raw stupidity I read on Eve Online forums. I wish I was joking.


Sorry, but anything you do in life everywhere will be surrounded by stupendously stupid people. Welcome to the world.
Minta Contha
Emergent Entity
#247 - 2011-12-04 00:11:35 UTC
James 315 wrote:

For all the different alliances and coalitions in Eve, and for all the multitudes of different names on the Eve map, there were only ever two choices for Eve. There was BoB, and there was Goon. That was it. For the most part, the people of Eve leaned toward BoB. They wanted order and peace. They wanted to be ruled by the elite. They wanted to be renters, pets, and slaves. So they served BoB, feared BoB, aspired to become members of BoB, and believed in BoB's ultimate victory no matter what. Like the highsec miners of today, they didn't want to challenge anything. Eve shuffled down the path toward BoB rule.

I had a different idea. At the critical moment I gently persuaded Eve onto a different course. The Goons won. BoB is dead. And so the animating force in the Eve community is the Goon. Their culture is at the core of the post-BoB Eve. The Goon influence is under the surface of everything. As I said, even the highsec miners unthinkingly parrot the Goon memes.

That was the decision I made, based upon the vision I had for Eve. I still believe it was the right one. Regardless, it's the one that everyone else will have to live with.

The highsec miners hate the Goons, and they barely recognize the name of BoB. But they do seem to understand that whatever BoB was, it was a bad thing. That makes me smile.



Hello, one-time highsec miner here.
Sorry to burst your god-complex trollbubble but actually most highsec players don't care about the Goons, I suspect at least 50% of the carebear community have never really heard of them or understand who they are, and of those who do know them, they are largely viewed as an irrelevance. Do not confuse talk about Goons on this forum with talk about Goons within the game. Most Eve players don't actually post on here or even read the forum more than very occasionally. That's one of the reasons Hulkageddon got so many kills - even as the most well-advertised event in the game, most miners didn't know it was happening. If you ran a straw poll in a highsec local channel asking players who Mittens is, you'd get a lot of blank looks or "isn't he CCP Teaboy's alt?" etc.
Nothing the Goons have ever done has changed anything I've done in terms of how I play the game, where I go and what I do.

My cooking is like my lovemaking - fast, greasy, and unsatisfying.

Merovee
Gorthaur Legion
Imperium Mordor
#248 - 2011-12-04 00:14:04 UTC
Seleia O'Sinnor wrote:
I laughed, too self righteous and populist. Another attention troll working hard, seems to work though.:)

I don't care for the gankers nor for the miners. If the miners are all gone, and hopefully no more minerals drops from drones, then I wonder how much a Rifter would be?

This sandbox can be broken.

If you compare Eve to human evolution I guess we are still in the medieval times not working with swords but laser cannons. It would be very interesting how Eve would evolve if there wasn't any hisec and no local. There are no consequences in this game.


Bankruptcy and we would have to play WoW.
Hi Sec pays the bills live with it.

To OP "bla bla bla pew pew pew bla bla bla" Jeeze fight a real war or start one in null sec.

Still; ganking does make mining more entertaining considering how hard it is to do it in low-sec. Blink

Empire, the next new world order.

ACY GTMI
Veerhouven Group
#249 - 2011-12-04 00:30:10 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
ACY GTMI wrote:
Weaselior wrote:
This thread is a masterpiece, i appreciate the time it took to write it.


And you are a pinhead.

I regret the waste of life force wasted on your creation.

that hurts, man

you shouldn't throw around burns like that willy-nilly



Willy-nilly?

If I have a cut on my right arm, I usually don't put the bandage on the left.
ACY GTMI
Veerhouven Group
#250 - 2011-12-04 00:37:08 UTC  |  Edited by: ACY GTMI
Minta Contha wrote:

Nothing the Goons have ever done has changed anything I've done in terms of how I play the game, where I go and what I do.


Purrrfect.

Mittani is a legend in his own mind, surrounded but thousands of lemmings(?) who mainly, and oddly enough seem to have smelly brown noses.

Nothing personal, Socks.
Teamosil
Good Time Family Band Solution
#251 - 2011-12-04 00:38:10 UTC
Lonox wrote:
Yeah, about that player driven economy thing, turns out noone cares. Well, maybe a few economists that bring their work home do but that's about it. People like making things go boom and detest players that go against the grain. I like my way better, it gets rid of the crap and ships go boom. It's a win/win for everyone, except for industry players but who cares?


You totally care about having a player driven economy, you just don't always realize that that is what you're encountering. It's a way to automatically balance professions. If something is hard, less people do it, so the profitability of the products it creates goes up until it finds equilibrium. If something is easy, more people do it, the profitability dies. It's self regulating.

On the other hand, when CCP just sets a fixed profit level for something, it inevitably gets out of balance. It turns out to be easier than they thought it would be and it becomes imbalanced by being too rewarding- like incursions for example, and since it has a fixed payout, nothing brings it back into balance with the other professions. Or it turns out to be harder than CCP thought it would be and then nobody does it anymore because it isn't rewarding enough to justify the difficulty/time/risk. When the reward goes through the player driven market those problems automatically get smoothed out.

Also, I think you're falling prey to the standard "my way of playing the game is the best" assumption... Different people like playing the game different ways. There are tons of interesting things you can do in eve that don't involve pvp. Maybe you don't like them as much as some other guy does, maybe you haven't learned enough about those professions to get why they're fun. You aren't the only person in the universe. Your preferences are not universal. As long as you enjoy the way you're playing it, that's great, but that doesn't mean the next guy won't have more fun playing it a different way. Don't just assume that the only options are pirate or miner. There are like 1,000 different professions in the game. Some of them only a handful of people have ever mastered.
Hikaru Kuroda
Extheria
#252 - 2011-12-04 00:54:52 UTC
James 315 wrote:
They do deserve the disgust that people feel for them.

Why do highsec miners deserve to be attacked, even at the guaranteed loss of the attacker's ship?

They're guilty.

The gankers are human. The miners are bots. The miners are quite literally less than human. They deserve to be wiped out, every last one of them. To the extent that they still feel anything, it should only be fear, humiliation, and misery.

I think we can all agree that highsec miners are despicable in both their actions and in their intrinsic nature. A highsec miner is fundamentally going to inspire disgust. What they think, the way they feel about things, their attitudes, beliefs, all of it.

Everyone knows that a highsec miner is motivated by greed. And not just a desire to gain, which could equally be attributed to the conquerors of nullsec, but a particular kind of senseless, materialistic greed.

Does he feel anything? No.

Like the bot he wishes to become, he is empty.

They don't believe in anything or anyone.

These miners scatter like sheep and leave their friends to die. Always.

They have produced nothing of value whatsoever.

Their legacy is a series of nerfs to highsec warfare. They whine and whine.

Suicide gankers thus represent the creative force in Eve. The highsec miners are unable to produce any creative thought.

It's almost as if the highsec miners want to be hated by everyone in Eve. If that's their goal, they're doing a great job.

Highsec miners are a superstitious and cowardly lot.

Can anyone give me one good reason why I should not kill the highsec miners?

Pretty much everyone agrees with me.

Actually, not only would it not be bad for Eve if we lost 100,000 highsec miners, it would be great for Eve. Subscriptions would go up through the roof if that happened.

So far we've covered most of the reasons why, from a purely rational standpoint, suicide ganking the miners is acceptable, desirable, perhaps even imperative.

Am I not merciful?

As I watched the exhumer's defenses peel away and the ship explode, I was struck by a profound sense of peace. Like I was doing something right. Like I was making the world a better place somehow, helping people.


You've gone too far, don't you?

I mean, this is a game. Don't take it that seriously. It can't be good for your health to feel so much hatred.
Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate
#253 - 2011-12-04 01:16:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Mina Sebiestar
09/10 interesting read would be 10 if tad shorter i felt eye strain toward end.

that's my rating i am not here to rate you or your attitude in/out of game...but i see plethora of bum hurted robo wannabes already did :)

Happy hunting

You choke behind a smile a fake behind the fear

Because >>I is too hard

Lonox
Doomheim
#254 - 2011-12-04 01:24:29 UTC
Teamosil wrote:
Lonox wrote:
Yeah, about that player driven economy thing, turns out noone cares. Well, maybe a few economists that bring their work home do but that's about it. People like making things go boom and detest players that go against the grain. I like my way better, it gets rid of the crap and ships go boom. It's a win/win for everyone, except for industry players but who cares?


You totally care about having a player driven economy, you just don't always realize that that is what you're encountering. It's a way to automatically balance professions. If something is hard, less people do it, so the profitability of the products it creates goes up until it finds equilibrium. If something is easy, more people do it, the profitability dies. It's self regulating.

On the other hand, when CCP just sets a fixed profit level for something, it inevitably gets out of balance. It turns out to be easier than they thought it would be and it becomes imbalanced by being too rewarding- like incursions for example, and since it has a fixed payout, nothing brings it back into balance with the other professions. Or it turns out to be harder than CCP thought it would be and then nobody does it anymore because it isn't rewarding enough to justify the difficulty/time/risk. When the reward goes through the player driven market those problems automatically get smoothed out.

Also, I think you're falling prey to the standard "my way of playing the game is the best" assumption... Different people like playing the game different ways. There are tons of interesting things you can do in eve that don't involve pvp. Maybe you don't like them as much as some other guy does, maybe you haven't learned enough about those professions to get why they're fun. You aren't the only person in the universe. Your preferences are not universal. As long as you enjoy the way you're playing it, that's great, but that doesn't mean the next guy won't have more fun playing it a different way. Don't just assume that the only options are pirate or miner. There are like 1,000 different professions in the game. Some of them only a handful of people have ever mastered.


Industry players are like those victims of the sansha incursions that the correspondents write about, meaningless. If it makes you feel better, we could all RP and write articles about how colonist what's-his-name mined 100 million trit today and how it helped fuel the engines of war. Industry is better suited to fluff and RP'ing. As for the player driven economy, it's so interesting and meaningful that it's full of bots too! Lol
Teamosil
Good Time Family Band Solution
#255 - 2011-12-04 01:27:05 UTC
Lonox wrote:
Industry players are like those victims of the sansha incursions that the correspondents write about, meaningless. If it makes you feel better, we could all RP and write articles about how colonist what's-his-name mined 100 million trit today and how it helped fuel the engines of war. Industry is better suited to fluff and RP'ing. As for the player driven economy, it's so interesting and meaningful that it's full of bots too! Lol


It doesn't sound like you understood my post. Maybe re-read it?
Weiland Taur
The Exchange Collective
Solyaris Chtonium
#256 - 2011-12-04 01:45:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Weiland Taur
I would suggest moving this to fiction and after reading Orwell’s essay on Politics and the English Language doing some editing. Most of your points are indefensible as they are based purely upon your own prejudices and gilded with a penchant for Roleplaying. (We all fall prey to it I guess). A play style I believe the Mittani has expressed distaste for in other posts/articles of his own. If I remember correctly he called Karttoon a Role-player in some article on Ten Ton Hammer. I only bring this up since you seem to gush with admiration for him.

In all, this piece exhibits a creative bending of virtual reality that demands one stand and salute. Point in fact, the Goons are making a killing (ISK) on the interdiction. I imagine it's an economic move by the higher ups spiced with enough miner blood to get the rabble going. Oh' and the Mittani is paying a king's ransom out in ISK if the Hulkageddon ads are to be believed. It's a brilliant tactic and I hope it motivates more miners to actually learn to tank, get friends and work together. Of course any resistance may be a bit harder with CCP's acquiescence to ganking in the form of tier 3 Battlecruisers but it's an admirable challenge. The Interdiction It has made ice mining almost a respectable career in Gallante space.


I did read all of it so bravo. Some of it was quite entertaining, an odd sort of rambling from the edge of space. However you did almost lose this audience member when you backed down from that daring pvp action in the glittering ice field. I was disappointed. You sir are a poor pirate.

A carebear question: Is nullsec and those mass fleet battles that seem to give the CCP hardware such fits so boring that one off shoot and pop fests are more entertaining? No stomach for null roams? I personally find the idea of popping hulks incredibly boring. Most are horribly tanked if at all. Though if I was a role-player I just might enjoy it.

I just might...
Russell Casey
Doomheim
#257 - 2011-12-04 02:45:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Russell Casey
Lonox wrote:


Yeah, about that player driven economy thing, turns out noone cares. Well, maybe a few economists that bring their work home do but that's about it. People like making things go boom and detest players that go against the grain. I like my way better, it gets rid of the crap and ships go boom. It's a win/win for everyone, except for industry players but who cares?


Only highsec players think that ships/mods magically appear out thin air while they mash F1 for the isk to buy it because there's so many indys in highsec sitting on BPOs. Everyone in null/low/wh will tell you that if you want something it either needs to be flown out or built there.

First time someone goes to null and realizes what they want is 10+ jumps away and that's the only place in the region selling it is a real eye-opener.
Argyle Jones
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#258 - 2011-12-04 09:53:21 UTC
Nikola Aivoras wrote:
Ethzera wrote:
Nikola Aivoras wrote:
I suppose you believe the people who tell you the grass is purple, even though you see that it is clearly green?

At least I have the capacity to accept that things may not be as they seem. Just because you see green grass doesn't mean it's truly green, or that it's even really there. But this is a philosophical discussion for another time.


Spare me the new-age philosophical crap. It's a way for relativists to justify their actions when they can't find a reason in the real world. After all, the world is really an illusion, right?


Ah, you're oldschool.

Actually, relativism or no, colors we are just not sure of. We are in perfect agreement that something is green and that something else is purple, but we have little idea if what I regard as green is the same thing as what you regard as green. That is a subjective truth and while there may exist some higher ideal or principle of green and purple that is universally true, such a thing would be irrelevant when discussing human perception.

/Lith

Warhlak
#259 - 2011-12-04 10:25:17 UTC
Another boring post zzzZZZzzz sry i haven't read all i have no time for this, do whatever you want, for me you can gank all in high sec msg me when you solve your problem, but probebly faster i will have 100 yers and i will stop playing this game.
Reiisha
#260 - 2011-12-04 10:45:13 UTC
The insurance change in Crucible was god damn awesome tbh. Odd the OP forgot to take this into account. - Only mentioning it in the first post and then forgetting about it.

It's going to be a big thing for high-sec ganking since you'll hemorrhage ISK like never before. Not getting any insurance at all is going to annoy quite a few people.

If you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all...