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The Talos drone bay - didn't really think about it?
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Amsterdam Conversations
Doomheim
#1 - 2011-12-01 22:37:18 UTC
I want to put it rather short.
The Talos got a drone bay, because I guess so many people complained about a gallente boat not having a drone bay. I don't even want to go on about why it should or should not have a drone bay as gallente boat (different reason than what this thread is about), but there's one point about its drone bay that I just don't get.

Did you forget that ECM drones became mandatory (or should I say the most effective) on battlecruisers? Nearly all battlecruiser pilots now use ECM drones instead of Hobgoblins/Warriors, because, interceptors aside, they're just that much more effective against any ship that goes slower than 2000m/s.

So, the Talos basically already has a tracking bonus which helps at killing frigs (in theory only to be honest), and it also, unlike all other Tier 3s, receives a complete GTFO ability called ECM drones. Any scram ship that doesn't kill a Talos in under 20 seconds has the (not so low) chance of simply being jammed and being unable to keep point on the Talos.

I remember they were supposed to be lightly tanked nanos that will die in a fire if you do a mistake with them (as in being scrambed for instance). For a Talos this doesn't apply any longer.

Not that it won't get raped by a Tornado before it gets a jam off in most cases, but I think this is a really strong issue overlooked.
Freyya
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2011-12-01 22:40:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Freyya
What was the issue again?



Ohh wait, drones on only 1 tier 3 BC. Talos needs to get pretty fuckin close (like in scram and web range) to do max damage and you're whining they can fit a couple ecm drones to give them a slight chance to get away if things go south? Like 5 drones will do anything against 2+ ships.
Ohh and its the only t3 BC that needs to get the closest of all to do max damage. I know Naga fits blasters too but it has a RANGE bonus ffs.

And none of them were ment to be nano ships really. Just glass cannons remember? They can be fitted like any other ship and are not ment to only be nano ships avoiding mistakes. Like you're not going to get scrammed with a Talos @ 5K when it's nanoed. They'll die in a fire no matter what you do anyways so small oversight on your part..... ffs.

Not only does your char look bitter, you act bitter too.
Johnson Johnson
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#3 - 2011-12-01 22:48:31 UTC
ibis has room for 1 x EC-300

nerf ibis
Tyraeil Starblade
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2011-12-01 22:55:14 UTC
Confirming I owned an Arazu because my ECM drones jammed him out.
Jovan Geldon
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2011-12-01 23:01:48 UTC
Johnson Johnson wrote:
ibis has room for 1 x EC-300

nerf ibis


This
Nephilius
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#6 - 2011-12-01 23:04:23 UTC
Sad face is sad.

Are you complaining about the drones or the ECM?
"If."
Mystical Might
Eclipse Pulsar
Fraternity.
#7 - 2011-12-01 23:05:15 UTC
"QQ, Stuff. Please Care. I'm going to pretend I've actually asked other people what they think about the subject, and then include them all in my whinethread too. QQ. Cry."
J3nny 8anks
Doomheim
#8 - 2011-12-01 23:05:47 UTC
Johnson Johnson wrote:
ibis has room for 1 x EC-300

nerf ibis


I was fighting an ibis earlier and got jammed by it's ecm drone 30 minutes later i died :(
Amsterdam Conversations
Doomheim
#9 - 2011-12-01 23:32:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Amsterdam Conversations
Freyya wrote:
What was the issue again?



Ohh wait, drones on only 1 tier 3 BC. Talos needs to get pretty fuckin close (like in scram and web range) to do max damage and you're whining they can fit a couple ecm drones to give them a slight chance to get away if things go south? Like 5 drones will do anything against 2+ ships.
Ohh and its the only t3 BC that needs to get the closest of all to do max damage. I know Naga fits blasters too but it has a RANGE bonus ffs.

And none of them were ment to be nano ships really. Just glass cannons remember? They can be fitted like any other ship and are not ment to only be nano ships avoiding mistakes. Like you're not going to get scrammed with a Talos @ 5K when it's nanoed. They'll die in a fire no matter what you do anyways so small oversight on your part..... ffs.

Not only does your char look bitter, you act bitter too.

No, they were supposed to be speed tankers. "Sacrificing tank for speed".

Your point is good though, unlike all the other posts.
Dewgong
Order of the Black Dagger
#10 - 2011-12-01 23:46:54 UTC
I do think that only one of the new BCs got a drone bay is kinda one sided, at least give a 15m3 bay to the others or something (or prevent the Talos from using ECM drones). Oracle kinda got shafted with the cap usage, why not give it a few drones to even it out?

Or, you know, prevent the Talos from using ECM drones, I'm cool with that.
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#11 - 2011-12-01 23:54:34 UTC
Dewgong wrote:
I do think that only one of the new BCs got a drone bay is kinda one sided, at least give a 15m3 bay to the others or something (or prevent the Talos from using ECM drones). Oracle kinda got shafted with the cap usage, why not give it a few drones to even it out?

Or, you know, prevent the Talos from using ECM drones, I'm cool with that.


I'm glad to see all the big nose, sad face guys are in agreement.

But Gallente didn't get screwed for once and I'm okay with that.

Mr Epeen Cool
Berendas
Ascendant Operations
#12 - 2011-12-01 23:58:07 UTC
The problem everyone in this thread seems to be having is with ECM, not the drone bay on the Talos.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2011-12-02 00:02:26 UTC
Amsterdam Conversations wrote:
Freyya wrote:
What was the issue again?
Ohh wait, drones on only 1 tier 3 BC. Talos needs to get pretty fuckin close (like in scram and web range) to do max damage and you're whining they can fit a couple ecm drones to give them a slight chance to get away if things go south? Like 5 drones will do anything against 2+ ships.
Ohh and its the only t3 BC that needs to get the closest of all to do max damage. I know Naga fits blasters too but it has a RANGE bonus ffs.

And none of them were ment to be nano ships really. Just glass cannons remember? They can be fitted like any other ship and are not ment to only be nano ships avoiding mistakes. Like you're not going to get scrammed with a Talos @ 5K when it's nanoed. They'll die in a fire no matter what you do anyways so small oversight on your part..... ffs.

Not only does your char look bitter, you act bitter too.

No, they were supposed to be speed tankers. "Sacrificing tank for speed".

Your point is good though, unlike all the other posts.

The issue is that "Sacrificing tank for speed" doesn't work in 0 range combat. The tier 3 BC philosophy is counter intuitive for blasters, and the Naga is better at sniping with rails. This being the case, using drones is not so much a get out of jail free card as it is a chance (however slim) to actually perform in it's role.
Cozmik R5
Chez Stan
#14 - 2011-12-02 00:22:30 UTC
Tier 3 BCs have no drone bays.

Adapt or die.

Try not. Do. Or do not. There is no try.
Cozmik R5
Chez Stan
#15 - 2011-12-02 00:22:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Cozmik R5
Double posting for your pleasure.

Try not. Do. Or do not. There is no try.
Shivus Tao
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#16 - 2011-12-02 00:22:57 UTC
Berendas wrote:
The problem everyone in this thread seems to be having is with ECM, not the drone bay on the Talos.


That may be an indication that ECM needs to be adressed maybe?

A talos can also carry a single sentry. One warden may not sound like much, but in a 10 rail talos fleet each with 1 warden thats an extra 900 dps on top of the 6000-7000 the talos are already doing out at 60km.
Handsome Hussein
#17 - 2011-12-02 00:24:25 UTC
Cozmik R5 wrote:
Tier 3 BCs have no drone bays.

Adapt or die.

This is a well-thought out post.

Leaves only the fresh scent of pine.
Sadayiel
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#18 - 2011-12-02 00:35:31 UTC
Amsterdam Conversations wrote:
I want to put it rather short.
The Talos got a drone bay, because I guess so many people complained about a gallente boat not having a drone bay. I don't even want to go on about why it should or should not have a drone bay as gallente boat (different reason than what this thread is about), but there's one point about its drone bay that I just don't get.

Did you forget that ECM drones became mandatory (or should I say the most effective) on battlecruisers? Nearly all battlecruiser pilots now use ECM drones instead of Hobgoblins/Warriors, because, interceptors aside, they're just that much more effective against any ship that goes slower than 2000m/s.

So, the Talos basically already has a tracking bonus which helps at killing frigs (in theory only to be honest), and it also, unlike all other Tier 3s, receives a complete GTFO ability called ECM drones. Any scram ship that doesn't kill a Talos in under 20 seconds has the (not so low) chance of simply being jammed and being unable to keep point on the Talos.

I remember they were supposed to be lightly tanked nanos that will die in a fire if you do a mistake with them (as in being scrambed for instance). For a Talos this doesn't apply any longer.

Not that it won't get raped by a Tornado before it gets a jam off in most cases, but I think this is a really strong issue overlooked.



If you are flying a ship designed to deal 1200dps+ with the idea of last 20 seconds to be able to jam your target , you are flying such ship in a wrong way

Pro tip any drone that help you apply full dps will be way more effective than ECM drones Imho
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2011-12-02 00:42:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyberius Franklin
Sadayiel wrote:

If you are flying a ship designed to deal 1200dps+ with the idea of last 20 seconds to be able to jam your target , you are flying such ship in a wrong way

Pro tip any drone that help you apply full dps will be way more effective than ECM drones Imho

In a paper thin ship that works within range of every type of ewar, cap warfare and weapons modules, I can see how not being targeted can be useful in some situations. Assuming blaster fit of course.
Nephilius
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#20 - 2011-12-02 01:08:33 UTC
Shivus Tao wrote:
Berendas wrote:
The problem everyone in this thread seems to be having is with ECM, not the drone bay on the Talos.


That may be an indication that ECM needs to be adressed maybe?

A talos can also carry a single sentry. One warden may not sound like much, but in a 10 rail talos fleet each with 1 warden thats an extra 900 dps on top of the 6000-7000 the talos are already doing out at 60km.


Nerf the falcon!
"If."
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